Originally posted by Galan007
Right. Angel-level UI(Whis) reacting to instantaneous movement(Gogeta)... Which is what I said from the start.
Thing is Instant transmission doesn’t work like "Kai Kai", The user NEEDS to sense someone's Ki in order to teleport himself. When Gogeta used IT he definitely sensed someone's Ki, It seemed like Gogeta sensed Whis as in screen we Gogeta occupied where Whis was before so similarly like Moro
IT can be predicted or sensed it’s nothing new because it happened multiple times even in top arc too. Frieza reacted simultaneously to IT against a Yadratian because he was ABLE to SENSE his Ki.
Whis can predict Gogeta's Ki just like moro did when Goku was searching for his Ki
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvilYou're still missing the point.
Thing is Instant transmission doesn’t work like "Kai Kai", The user NEEDS to sense someone's Ki in order to teleport himself. When Gogeta used IT he definitely sensed someone's Ki, It seemed like Gogeta sensed Whis as in screen we Gogeta occupied where Whis was before so similarly like MoroIT can be predicted or sensed it’s nothing new because it happened multiple times even in top arc too. Frieza reacted simultaneously to IT against a Yadratian because he was ABLE to SENSE his Ki.
Whis can predict Gogeta's Ki just like moro did when Goku was searching for his Ki
Even IF Gogeta locked onto Whis's ki beforehand(more logically he honed in on Broly's ki, considering Broly was his actual opponent), that doesn't mean Whis would know exactly where Gogeta was going to materialize... Imo, it's clearly a case of Whis's Angel-level UI doing what it does best: subconsciously dodging shit.
The Freeza/Jimizu instance is much different. In that case, Freeza had watched Jimizu use IT against Gohan, and was able to analyze his fighting pattern. From that, he was able to predict how Jimizu would use IT in battle and act accordingly.
Pretty good feat for Freeza, given that Goku used IT a few different times to get the better of Jiren himself... Which tells us that Goku's use of IT isn't predictable, otherwise a fighting genius like Jiren would have seen a 'pattern' emerge as well(which makes sense, given that Goku doesn't typically spam IT mid-battle -- he only uses it when absolutely necessary.)
But to reiterate my point: even if Whis knew that Gogeta was about to use IT(and that's a big "IF"😉, he had absolutely NO way of knowing the exact spot where Gogeta was going to instantaneously appear. Therefore Whis casually juking out of the way(while his attention was still focused on Broly) immediately before Gogeta materialized on the field, is a testament to the haxx reactions of Angel-level UI.
I don't see the problem with that either. This is also a guy who can KO Beerus with an effortless chop, ffs.
Originally posted by GodofNature
Dragon Ball has a lot of power, but they lack even in super hax, i think that leads to trouble in higher tier fights.
No, you're right.
Matter manipulation is an obvious one. Telepathy and magic two others.
Doctor Strange, with just a little bit of prep, could solo the entire DBZverse.
Prep gods as well.. Lex Luthor, Black Panther, Doctor Doom, and Vril Dox could certainly find ways to take them down, manipulate them, control them, power jack them..
Heck, other anime could beat them. Washu from Tenchi, for example. Or other franchises like The Doctor from Doctor Who. Dragon Ball has NO genius level characters, or characters who fight by wits alone. Doctor Slump and Bulma are as smart as they get, and they're relative idiots by comparison. I mean, Hercule f'n Satan diffused Fat Buu, for crying out loud.
Originally posted by Galan007
You're still missing the point.Even IF Gogeta locked onto Whis's ki beforehand(more logically he honed in on Broly's ki, considering Broly was his actual opponent), that doesn't mean Whis would know exactly where Gogeta was going to materialize... Imo, it's clearly a case of Whis's Angel-level UI doing what it does best: subconsciously dodging shit.
The Freeza/Jimizu instance is much different. In that case, Freeza had watched Jimizu use IT against Gohan, and was able to analyze his fighting pattern. From that, he was able to predict how Jimizu would use IT in battle and act accordingly.
Pretty good feat for Freeza, given that Goku used IT a few different times to get the better of Jiren himself... Which tells us that Goku's use of IT isn't predictable, otherwise a fighting genius like Jiren would have seen a 'pattern' emerge as well(which makes sense, given that Goku doesn't typically spam IT mid-battle -- he only uses it when absolutely necessary.)
But to reiterate my point: even if Whis knew that Gogeta was about to use IT(and that's a big "IF"😉, he had absolutely NO way of knowing the exact spot where Gogeta was going to instantaneously appear. Therefore Whis casually juking out of the way(while his attention was still focused on Broly) immediately before Gogeta materialized on the field, is a testament to the haxx reactions of Angel-level UI.
I don't see the problem with that either. This is also a guy who can KO Beerus with an effortless chop, ffs.
I mean It was never mentioned or revealed who's Ki he sensed in that instant so Its mostly assumption at this point because arguments CAN be made on both sides, If Gogeta REALLY had sensed Whis' ki, Whis could do the opposite as well which has been established in the series multiple times which I already mentioned before and yeah Whis can predict or materialize his opponent exact location which includes his movements too that's how He moved so quickly in that instant.
It's not even only JUST Frieza, Caulifla too figured out Goku's technique by "sensing Ki" And predicted where he'd be and so one she sent a attack in THAT instant. By sensing Ki they can't just predict their opponent but even spot their location as well AND that's pretty much the case for Gogeta here. He likely sensed Whis's Ki and appeared in that exact spot where Whis was standing before basically occupying, Whis sensed and knew Gogeta's appearance there hence he moved quickly.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Matter/Dna manipulation as an ability by its lonesome can't do anything to bodies aren't disintegrated by moon/planet busting. Very few characters have feats of transmutating people with that kind of durability.After more than a decade here I see people still don't understand this.
That assumes ki defenses can block exotics, which is a logical fallacy.
There's plenty of examples of exotic attacks bypassing their defenses completely.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvilYour examples don't offer a proper comparison. Much like Freeza did to Jimizu, Caulifla had to fight Goku for a while in order to get a read on how he was going to use IT in their battle, before she was able to predict where he was going to teleport to(similarly to how Goku 'beat' Hit's time-skip during the U6vs.U7 tourney.) It's not about ki sensing.
I mean It was never mentioned or revealed who's Ki he sensed in that instant so Its mostly assumption at this point because arguments CAN be made on both sides, If Gogeta REALLY had sensed Whis' ki, Whis could do the opposite as well which has been established in the series multiple times which I already mentioned before and yeah Whis can predict or materialize his opponent exact location which includes his movements too that's how He moved so quickly in that instant.
It's not even only JUST Frieza, Caulifla too figured out Goku's technique by "sensing Ki" And predicted where he'd be and so one she sent a attack in THAT instant. By sensing Ki they can't just predict their opponent but even spot their location as well AND that's pretty much the case for Gogeta here. He likely sensed Whis's Ki and appeared in that exact spot where Whis was standing before basically occupying, Whis sensed and knew Gogeta's appearance there hence he moved quickly.
In this case it certainly was not implied that Whis knew Gogeta was going to use IT at all, but even if he did know, they were still in completely different locations(Gogeta was monologuing to Freeza while Whis was off playing with Broly.) Therefore Whis had absolutely NO logical way of knowing the exact spot where Gogeta was going to instantaneously appear. Nothing had been telegraphed in such a way in that particular scene.
Originally posted by cdtm
That assumes ki defenses can block exotics, which is a logical fallacy.There's plenty of examples of exotic attacks bypassing their defenses completely.
The only logical fallacy is what your mother did 15 years ago.
We don't assume that everybody in Marvel would be completely helpless against Green Lantern energy and everybody in DC would be completely helpless against the Power Cosmic, because they don't exist in each other's Universe. We treat durability in the raw amount of output of those abilities. DB characters get their physical durability from their innate power level -- and if that allows even the likes of Raditz the ability to withstand blasts that disintegrates the moon without moving, it means the energy required to do do anything to their molecular structure is beyond most, if not all.
Furthermore -- how do you not realize that the same absolutely bottom of the barrel single-neuron fueled logic can be turned against you, and it means Yamcha would atomize Darkseid because he has no showings against the exotic ki blasts?
Also, waste of oxygen, you haven't answered my initial question:
Originally posted by Philosophía
You didn't answer -- who closes your mouth when it rains?Is the Secret Origin of CDTM's abusive father you forgetting to chew your food, choking, your stepfather hitting you and realizing he likes it? Do you sometimes pretend to choke your food to justify him abusing you in public?
Originally posted by BrolyBlack
It’s disgraceful really. I’m a bigger DBZ fan than anyone here and even I don’t bother doing this crap. It’s separate multiverses and needs to stay as such. The whole forum here which was the last good forum on this shitty website is now about DBZDBZ has its own forum and it needs to stay there.
You don't even contribute though. You just go into the one DB thread, say Carver is being retarded and then complain about the forum dying because you keep coming into one thread. Or just go into the normal vs threads, agree with the masses and don't put any actual ideas into the threads.
By continuing to come into this thread and complain too you're devaluing the actual discussion that everyone else is giving except you. Phildo007 is ruining the forum by talking about Dragon Ball here. I'm so much better than everyone else but Mexicans belong in Mexico!
Originally posted by Galan007
Your examples don't offer a proper comparison. Much like Freeza did to Jimizu, Caulifla had to fight Goku for a while in order to get a read on how he was going to use IT in their battle, before she was able to predict where he was going to teleport to(similarly to how Goku 'beat' Hit's time-skip during the U6vs.U7 tourney.) It's not about ki sensing.In this case it certainly was not implied that Whis knew Gogeta was going to use IT at all, but even if he did know, they were still in completely different locations(Gogeta was monologuing to Freeza while Whis was off playing with Broly.) Therefore Whis had absolutely NO logical way of knowing the exact spot where Gogeta was going to instantaneously appear. Nothing had been telegraphed in such a way in that particular scene.
It's pretty obvious Whis can sense Gogeta's Ki AND The fact Gogeta NEEDS Ki signature in order to IT at first place which lcreates another argument here.
Gogeta's appearance in that spot justifies he sensed Whis's Ki and approach in that spot But Whis obviously sensed it hence he moved quickly, I posted the scan where Goku was aiming for Moro's Ki signature while he'd found it but Moro spotted his location as well by sensing his Ki. even caulifla did it, IT is predictable AF.
