Originally posted by abhilegend
I've read more marvel comics than you have. Don't talk back to me son.Secret Wars I was good, II was hot garbage with no plan to where it is going. At least Snyder has a definitive plan for the story.
So is DC universe. But Perpetua also created sphere of gods and Nil which is infinitely bigger than infinite multiverse.
Scale wise Beyonder is nothing to Perpetua.
Not a chance, you can barely read based on your complete misinterpretation of multiple comics.
DC has 52 Universes. Snyder has made recent additions such as the Dark Multiverse, but the MU proper is larger than the main DC. At this point, it doesn't matter though, infinite is infinite. By definition, you cannot differentiate between the two.
I give PR Beyonder the advantage because Team 1 has yet to show anything as impressive in terms of power and was consistently beyond the Marvel Cosmological structure from Eternity to the LT. I'm sure you disagree.
"dc has 52 universes"
how outdated is this lowballing, get some new materials
Originally posted by MrMind
scans of dc multiverse being infinite here i come, Im only posting a small portion of scans, there's literally no way to argue against itanyone who still insist on 52 universes, just give up or you'll be eating crows
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11141/111417047/7330325-3424591709-INRpF.jpg
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_super/11141/111417047/7330326-6551573767-6GKQP.jpg
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11141/111417047/7330327-8045833951-QbMM9.jpg
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_super/11141/111417047/7330328-5574198920-lRdkf.jpg
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_super/11141/111417047/7330329-8855620690-jp1kk.jpg
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_super/11141/111417047/7330330-0913636718-amMUZ.jpg
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11141/111417047/7330331-7955717875-rcOZG.jpg
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11141/111417047/7330332-5126586996-gpcPa.jpg
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_super/11141/111417047/7330396-3575583171-IErWA.jpg
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11141/111417047/7330401-5535185045-latest
Originally posted by MrMind
Like I've said, there's no room for debate on this unless you have recently published works link the Dark Metal series.
2. You're wrong. This scene follows immediately from the scene I posted, where the four dimensions are explained to be space and time. He's not talking about the gods or the Monitor Sphere. Here's the full scene.
3. This isn't even from the New 52.
4. Wildstorm was never canon to the DC Universe. You have cameos, because DC bought Wildstorm. But it's still a separate canon.
5. It doesn't matter whether they're "Platonic or archtypical" it still exists within the four dimensions of time and space as Mr. Mxyztplk explained above.
6. Yes, but that's from World's funnest which was never part of the New 52, and was arguable never in continuity.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Not a chance, you can barely read based on your complete misinterpretation of multiple comics.
😂
You are delusional.
DC has 52 Universes. Snyder has made recent additions such as the Dark Multiverse, but the MU proper is larger than the main DC. At this point, it doesn't matter though, infinite is infinite. By definition, you cannot differentiate between the two.
Haha, shows how much you know about math. 1+2+3+4...... is infinite along with 1+2+4+8+16..... but the second string is bigger than the first one.
Also no, marvel universe wasn't bigger than the DC one when DC had only one universe (DC vs Marvel, JLA/Avengers). Now? There is no chance.
I give PR Beyonder the advantage because Team 1 has yet to show anything as impressive in terms of power and was consistently beyond the Marvel Cosmological structure from Eternity to the LT. I'm sure you disagree.
Eternity is Lords of Order level in DC. LT is Spectre level. Both are unimpressive compared to Perpetua.
Originally posted by MrMind
"dc has 52 universes"how outdated is this lowballing, get some new materials
Put that in contrast to every time we've characters talk about the 52 universes, the guides explaining the 52 universes, the Multiverse Map literally enumerating the 52 universes popping up in the comics.
What do you think weighs heavier?
too many things wrong with your post, it's actually not even worth a response
but here it goes wasting my time
new52 is local multiverse out of infinite multiverses, just like pre-crisis
just like post crisis/rebirth, if you read doomsday clock you would know
if you read multiversity you would know, but since you don't read dc comics, what's the point of arguing.
Convergence was the first extremely direct confirmation that a previous iteration of the multiverse had been saved following its reboot,
but the Metaverse has expanded that concept.
Each reboot that changes the Metaverse and results in a new multiverse does NOT remove the previous iteration from existence.
They all exist together, and always have. As such, destroying or threatening a "multiverse" is heavily dependent on the context and era of the story,
and whether or not the entire Orrery itself (discussed further below) was threatened.
Convergence brought back the Pre-Crisis Multiverse
Every multiverse is preserved in the wider DC Multiverse
The New 52 multiverse, for example, is a "local multiverse" of 52 universes
THESE ARE CANON FACTS, STOP SPEWING YOUR FAN FICTION
since post crisis is still in dc larger multiverses,
due to canon facts and fukin hypertime
wildstorm is earth 50, have you even read 52 and captain atom armageddon
they literally shars the same bleed with dc multiverse if you read anything with authority or written by morrison at all
I'm not even gonna bother with WF being canon cause it's pointless
Originally posted by Astner
1. I'm not sure where that SMS conversation is from, or who's participating. But it doesn't matter, because the comics explicitly extrapolates the fifth and sixth dimension from the four of space and time.
Since when is imagination a separate dimension in spatial dimension theory?
https://www.denofgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/justice-league-24-preview-p5.jpg
Like I've said, there's no room for debate on this unless you have recently published works link the Dark Metal series.
Or you have misinterpreted the issue.
2. You're wrong. This scene follows immediately from the scene I posted, where the four dimensions are explained to be space and time. He's not talking about the gods or the Monitor Sphere. Here's the full scene.
Because sphere of Gods is above normal/infinite multiverse.
3. This isn't even from the New 52.4. Wildstorm was never canon to the DC Universe. You have cameos, because DC bought Wildstorm. But it's still a separate canon.
Wut? Wildstorm is canon to DC since JLA/Wildstorm. Majestic even appeared in Superman, Captain Atom appeared in Wildstorm, Superman and Eradicator appeared in Majestic etc.
5. It doesn't matter whether they're "Platonic or archtypical" it still exists within the four dimensions of time and space as Mr. Mxyztplk explained above.
Uh no, Nil is beyond the multiverse altogether.
Originally posted by abhilegend
[B]Nope, The Unexpected shows Mandrakk falling into overvoid from Nil.And Nil is outside the multiverse. And when Mandrakk fell from overvoid, he went to Dark Multiverse which is also out of the multiverse.
There you go. Its after Metal too.
6. Yes, but that's from World's funnest which was never part of the New 52, and was arguable never in continuity. [/B]
Yes, it is. Crisis on Infinite Earths Deluxe Edition Vol 3 collected World's Funnest as tie in.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Superman_and_Batman:_World%27s_Funnest
wildstorm and dc literally shares the same bleed with dc multiverse if you read anything with authority
here's Ion in bleed
me and abhi are not here to educate you guys on dc cosmology, do so yourself
PS: is it so hard for you guys to stop stretching the fukin page,
like seriously we are having a serious discussion here
Originally posted by abhilegend
Since when is imagination a separate dimension in spatial dimension theory?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Or you have misinterpreted the issue.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Because sphere of Gods is above normal/infinite multiverse.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Wut? Wildstorm is canon to DC since JLA/Wildstorm. Majestic even appeared in Superman, Captain Atom appeared in Wildstorm, Superman and Eradicator appeared in Majestic etc.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Uh no, Nil is beyond the multiverse altogether.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, it is.
Not to mention that it wouldn't make sense for it to be canon, because Mr. Mxyzptlk destroyed everything and everyone save for Bat-Mite and Garrick's helmet. That would include Perpetua and the Prensce if they shared the same canon.
Originally posted by Astner
All of your evidence falls under one of three categories. It predates the New 52, it's not part of DC canon, or its really vague.Put that in contrast to every time we've characters talk about the 52 universes, the guides explaining the 52 universes, the Multiverse Map literally enumerating the 52 universes popping up in the comics.
What do you think weighs heavier?
this is only a small portion of scans infinite universes and multiverses being mentioned, post flashpoint and onward
it's straight up frustrating at this point
Originally posted by MrMind
wildstorm and dc literally shares the same bleed with dc multiverse if you read anything with authority
Does the Wildstorm Multiverse have its own Bleed? Maybe, but it's not the same as the one as in the New 52. We know this for a fact because out of the 52 universes in the New 52 not a single one is associated with Wildstorm.
That said, you are also missing an important element. Comics are inconsistent. Off-issues don't matter as much as events. Currently Dark Metal is the event that's defining DC's cosmology, and anything that contradicts it is wrong. And that's why I'm telling you not to cherry-pick.
Originally posted by Astner
All of your evidence falls under one of three categories. It predates the New 52, it's not part of DC canon, or its really vague.Put that in contrast to every time we've characters talk about the 52 universes, the guides explaining the 52 universes, the Multiverse Map literally enumerating the 52 universes popping up in the comics.
What do you think weighs heavier?
The 52 universes are called the local multiverse:
https://img.fireden.net/co/image/1519/78/1519783726095.jpg
The multiverse indeed is infinite.
Originally posted by Astner
No one is claiming that the 5th dimension is a spatial dimension. Stop straw-manning.
You mean you don't even remember your very first argument here?
Originally posted by Astner
[B] Because not only did the Beyonder destroy the Multiverse in his fight against the Molecule Man, which was actually infinite. When it comes to dimensions and whatnot, he wasn't a six-dimensional being, he was an infinite-dimensional being.I forget exactly where this panel is from, but it's from one of the earlier Secret Wars II issues, I think it's #2 but don't quote me on that.
You claimed that Beyonder isn't a sixth dimensional being which means you are assigning six dimension to Perpetua and thus Beyonder is more powerful due to being with infinite dimensions.
No. It's as straight-forward as it gets.
It really isn't.
Still four dimensional like the rest of the Multiverse according to Mr. Mxyzptlk.
Multiverse is four dimensional. Sphere of Gods is not as it is above the multiverse altogether.
Those are cross-over events. There's no Wildstorm Universe, in the New 52. It's its own thing.
You are aware that there was an event called Convergence where Wildstorm characters appeared, right? You are not even aware of basic details of the cosmology.
And no, those are not crossovers. Majestic was main star of Superman books for a month.
This has nothing to do with what you replied to.
Why not?
No. Even the writer conceded to that it never was in continuity.
Writer's intentions are overruled by company edicts.
Not to mention that it wouldn't make sense for it to be canon, because Mr. Mxyzptlk destroyed everything and everyone save for Bat-Mite and Garrick's helmet. That would include Perpetua and the Prensce if they shared the same canon. [/B]
DC cosmology is messed up. That does not mean we start calling everything that does not makes sense as non canon.
Originally posted by deft
The 52 universes are called the local multiverse:https://img.fireden.net/co/image/1519/78/1519783726095.jpg
The multiverse indeed is infinite.
If you go by Morrison's model, the New 52 was DC. There were other multiverses out there (like the one that was destroyed by the Empty Hand) but these were, according to Morrison, "other stories" and not DC stories with Superman and whatnot.
Originally posted by abhilegend
You claimed that Beyonder isn't a sixth dimensional being which means you are assigning six dimension to Perpetua and thus Beyonder is more powerful due to being with infinite dimensions.
Superman is a four-dimensional being (space-time).
Mr. Mxyzptlk is a five dimensional being (space-time-imagintion).
Perpetua is a six dimensional being (space-time-imagination-unimagined).
.
.
.
Beyonder is an infinite dimensional being.
Originally posted by abhilegend
It really isn't.
But I also tend to deal with a lot more difficult topics, so that might have something to do with it.
Originally posted by Astner
Yes. But it doesn't matter whether the dimensions are spatial, temporal, imaginary, etc. if we simply want to compare the numbers we have the following:Superman is a four-dimensional being (space-time).
Mr. Mxyzptlk is a five dimensional being (space-time-imagintion).
Perpetua is a six dimensional being (space-time-imagination-unimagined).
.
.
.Beyonder is an infinite dimensional being.
So you are simultaneously confirming that imagination as a spatial dimension does not exists but are still assigning a number to fifth dimension because Beyonder is infinite dimensional!!
That's some logic. Schrodinger's Astner!!!
But seriously, Mxy would shitstomp Beyonder whether he is infinite dimensional or what not. Heck, going by your logic Darkseid would be equivalent to Beyonder because he was so much above multiverse that his mere presence destroyed the multiverse and he became everything in space/time.
And when we are talking about all space/time, it means every timeline.
And we know that there are infinite timelines in a single universe as shown in Our Worlds at war.
As you can see, Darkseid became everything in space/time. Which is what that Beyonder scan means (He was everything in his universe, just like what Darkseid had become in the entire multiverse).
