Who is more powerful than the 616 Infinity Gauntlet?

The mistake many people make is that they don't put things into perspective and consider context and comparative nature.

The IG is a tool. The Phoenix Force is a sentient entity with its own agenda.

To simplify things, lets equate a potential user of either to a learner driver.
The IG would be an automatic Ford family car. The Phoenix Force would be a manual sports car.

The IG is easier to control and gives easy access to its full suite of features from the get go for just about all users. Leading to dramatically less variance between user showings.

The Phoenix Force however is a far more temperamental beast to tame and what you can get out of it depends on the users skill level.

Because of this you will always get consistently high showings with the IG.

With the Phoenix however it depends on the host, were they already an adept energy wielder or telepath, are they emotionally stable, is what they're trying to do aligned with the Phoenix Forces agenda (if not then the Force will simply turn on you and limit what you can do as seen in Uncanny X-Force when Jean attacked Death/Archangel)

However if you have a competent user, who has the necessary willpower/emotional stability and they're carrying out the Forces agenda then the feats such hosts have achieved have been beyond the best showings of the IG by a considerable margin and that's not debatable.

A manual car is tougher to master, but gives finer control and enables you to eke out performance that you never could from an automatic.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Good post about Protege

Especially the last part

Thanks bro. People are selective in how they evaluate situations and inconsistent with their demands for evidence.

The Protege incident is feat-less and evidence is thin on the ground. What evidence was there is that he got defeated by a Celestial. Hence we have an indication of his previously unknown limit.

We don't uprate the Celestial when Proteges claims were unsubstantiated. Instead we should say, Protege got defeated by a Celestial 😂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Indeed i did. I put my opinion out there and went about my business.

If youre gonna pop up and say im wrong, then present your case and I'll swiftly take it apart.

Why would I want to prove a negative?

If all you have to give me however is an opposing opinion then that isnt enough to call me into action these days.

Show me the money! 😱

And why would I care what you want or what brings you to action? You're a nobody.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You'll be disappointed. Abhi rose from obscurity when the good debaters left. 😄

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The mistake many people make is that they don't put things into perspective and consider context and comparative nature.

The IG is a tool. The Phoenix Force is a sentient entity with its own agenda.

To simplify things, lets equate a potential user of either to a learner driver.
The IG would be an automatic Ford family car. The Phoenix Force would be a manual sports car.

The IG is easier to control and gives easy access to its full suite of features from the get go for just about all users. Leading to dramatically less variance between user showings.

The Phoenix Force however is a far more temperamental beast to tame and what you can get out of it depends on the users skill level.

Because of this you will always get consistently high showings with the IG.

With the Phoenix however it depends on the host, were they already an adept energy wielder or telepath, are they emotionally stable, is what they're trying to do aligned with the Phoenix Forces agenda (if not then the Force will simply turn on you and limit what you can do as seen in Uncanny X-Force when Jean attacked Death/Archangel)

However if you have a competent user, who has the necessary willpower/emotional stability and they're carrying out the Forces agenda then the feats such hosts have achieved have been beyond the best showings of the IG by a considerable margin and that's not debatable.

A manual car is tougher to master, but gives finer control and enables you to eke out performance that you never could from an automatic.

The idea that different Phoenix hosts have different power levels is an apocryphal idea with no such indications in the recent comics in last 15 years.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why would I want to prove a negative?

And why would I care what you want or what brings you to action? You're a nobody.

As previously mentioned, i posted my opinion. Whether people agreed or did not was not my concern. I said what i said and moved on.

You're the third world debater begging for my attention. On this occasion I'll give you what you desire kid. Merry Christmas. 😱

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why would I want to prove a negative?

And why would I care what you want or what brings you to action? You're a nobody.

😂 You bragged about winning tournaments and some fictional championship belts on a battleboard tryna impress me, and you wanna call somebody a nobody lmaooo

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As previously mentioned, i posted my opinion. Whether people agreed or did not was not my concern. I said what i said and moved on.

I accept your concession that you only have your opinion and nothing else.

You're the third world debater begging for my attention. On this occasion I'll give you what you desire kid. Merry Christmas. 😱

I said lulz to your post. Maybe you've your head scrambled but I don't even know who you are. Drop the ego.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
😂 You bragged about winning tournaments and some fictional championship belts on a battleboard tryna impress me, and you wanna call somebody a nobody lmaooo

You're adorable kid.

Originally posted by abhilegend
😂

You're adorable kid.

I'm old enough to be your dad relax "kid" 😂

So if you're that old Albert, why did you post a pic of a kid next to Starlin and say it was you?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I'm old enough to be your dad relax "kid" 😂

Originally posted by abhilegend
That doesn't explain why the actual Phoenix Force (Without any host) has actually poorer feats than the Phoenix hosts.

It is the power behind the hosts feats, it facilitates them so by what strange logic would you try and separate them?

If a host does something great on panel then is it not logical that the Force itself is capable of greater? 😕

Originally posted by abhilegend
The idea that different Phoenix hosts have different power levels is an apocryphal idea with no such indications in the recent comics in last 15 years.

Apocryphal only to one who knows the bare minimum about a subject he is arrogantly trying to debate on. Do better 👆

If something is presented as fact within the comic book world, then unless a retcon is explicitly put in place showing it is no longer fact, you have no grounds in saying otherwise. Know your place 😱

The Phoenix Force itself indicates in New X-men 154 that there are different classes of avatar when it states in New X-men 154 that telekinetic control of the universes atoms isn't as easy as it sounds in training even for a White Phoenix:

Necrom siphoned a shard of the Phoenix Force millenia ago, yet was capable of greater feats of power with this fragment of the Force, than Rachel who was the chosen host of the Phoenix:

Again showing you that how powerful a host is depends on the ability of said host and its compatibility with the Force.

The Phoenix Force again highlighted that there is a difference between hosts as recently as 2018 when it stated that in the Jean Grey limited series that Jean Grey was its most powerful and influential host:

As i said in my previous example, the IG is like an automatic family car and the Phoenix would be a manual sports car.

The automatic is easier to use, its pick up and go making for consistent high showings.

The manual has a learning curve, but once mastered gives a greater degree of fine control and performance than an automatic ever could. It all just depends on the user. Hence the varying showings of hosts. 😉

Originally posted by abhilegend
Age does not correlates to maturity kid.

You're hardly making a case for yourself son 😉

Originally posted by abhilegend
I accept your concession that you only have your opinion and nothing else.

I said lulz to your post. Maybe you've your head scrambled but I don't even know who you are. Drop the ego.

You tried to get my attention and then later referred to my past debates with Mr Master that you used to read and make notes on.

Youve clearly admired me from afar.

Stay being inspired 👆

Originally posted by Stoic
I was under the impression that the Infinity Gauntlet was all powerful in it's native universe. What would actually be above it? I also believe that it is erroneous to automatically believe that a being capable of operating in multiple universes somehow means that they would overpower the Infinity Gauntlet within its native universe. However, I believe if they were somehow able to remove a seasoned user who has mastered the Infinity Gauntlet from its native universe that they would win, as the gems would be rendered powerless outside of its borders.

The real question remains as to how that would actually occur, since the Infinity Gauntlet grants the user the ability to not only see into the future, but also the ability to travel through time with unerring precision.

Do you think an IG 616 wielder can beat either Beyonder or Molecule Man in 616?

@GS, will you point out the feats the Phoenix Force has that are better than the 616 IG?

Originally posted by wxyz
Do you think an IG 616 wielder can beat either Beyonder or Molecule Man in 616?

@GS, will you point out the feats the Phoenix Force has that are better than the 616 IG?

No problem.

Re-energising the energy matrix that contains the multiversal power of the M'kraan crystal both in this multiverse and the previous one that Galactus derived from

(Galans multiverse)

616

Galactus confirming to Franklin Richards that the Phoenix from the previous multiverse is one and the same:

Empowering Jean to casually wipe out the Here Comes tomorrow timeline telekinetically in the space of a sentence

(Handbook confirmation)

Empowering Jean to telekinetically manifest the 616 universe in the palm of her hand atom by atom displaying total telekinetic control of the 616 universe

Next to that the IG being top dog in a reality (that the White Phoenix casually wipes out with a thought or manifests in her palm displaying total telekinetic control of its atoms) is entirely insignificant 😉

Originally posted by wxyz
Do you think an IG 616 wielder can beat either Beyonder or Molecule Man in 616?

@GS, will you point out the feats the Phoenix Force has that are better than the 616 IG?

An IG wielder can certainly beat Beyonder as his post retcon form places him as a minor omnipotent (below Celestial level)

Molecule Man after absorbing the power of the entire Beyonder race would be 2nd only to TOAA in current continuity. However after he exhausted this power-up facilitating the recreation of the multiverse he was then below Abstract level as indicated by his destruction at the hands of the Griever

Galans multiverse was destroyed by the power of the M'kraan crystal. It was this power that the Phoenix Force has contained twice within continuity.

So Phoenix is a multiversal power?

What about Secret Wars 2 Beyonder and Molecule Man, either of them vs 616 IG?