The scans are there to complement the accompanying argument. You’ve demonstrated numerous times that there is a deficiency in your short term collection, so its for your benefit more than mine.Plus its always nice to highlight that my line of argument is officially supported. Whilst yours derives from your anal passage
So quick to insults, huh? Always the sign of a weak debater.
As stated on panel, following its rebirth the Phoenix Force had no sentience, it was just ambient life, it had no emotion, no agenda, nothing. It just was.Feron reached out to it and was granted access to a portion of its essence which enhanced his abilities. It was a neutral power source, nothing more
Feron was best by Necrom and he ripped the portion of the Phoenix from the Feron. This pained the Phoenix and it fled, the same way a scolded infant might flee from something that caused it pain.
And Phoenix lost by fleeing from Necrom. Some all powerful entity,huh?
The Phoenix Force itself never faced Necrom. Necrom faced an inexperienced Phoenix host, he tore out the power and the neutral Force deserted the Earth.
Yeah, it was too cowardly to face Necrom. No wonder its still yellow.
Necrom as a base sorcerer was not capable in terms of power of achieving his goals. Therefore he sought out the Phoenix Force realizing its value in augmenting him.
So how are you demeaning the Force by saying that a Phoenix augmented sorcerer wielding a portion of the Force was pulling off better feats than a telepath augmented by slightly more of the Force?Youre very weird. Your arguments are illogical and they don’t prove what you want them to laughing
All you’re doing is further demonstrating my point that power output and ability to pull off feats can vary between hosts according to their pre-existing experience and ability with energy manipulation.
Feron had access to a portion of the Force yet for all that power, he was a student of Necrom so he was bested by far greater skill and experience.
Necrom had a portion of the Force and Rachel had a greater portion of the Force. Necrom dominated for 99% of the battle as he was a master sorcerer with years upon years more experience with energy manipulation.
Thank you for continuing to make me shine. You have your uses kid. Even if they end at that. eek!
The Phoenixes character in that moment doesn’t take away from its power output. Your point is irrelevant to a debate about comparative output.
So you are saying that Necrom is more skilled than Rachel, right? How did he die when Rachel transferred full phoenix force to him?
Curious how Phoenix isn't even stated to have any power on its own but it can only tap the energy of the universe and they are only "near infinite", huh?
Bro your brain is faulty. Get a refund laughing
Acknowledge that a retcon took place. That means that we are to view the new version of events as if they were always the case.So when you go back to older stories written under a different continuity, it doesn’t matter, you read it as per the new status quo.
Before you reply. Read my response. Take a break. Then read it again. Take the time out to process information that you clearly need.
Here is how you are to interpret those old scenes under current continuity:
You are the one who was rejecting retcons, citing secret wars as out of continuity, weren't you? What changed?
She subconsciously erected psychic barriers to reduce her power to a certain level that her as a person felt she could safely wield.
So weak as a host, wasn't she?
I also referred to scenes that explicitly demonstrate Rachel doing the same thing i.e limiting her power output to facilitate safe usage of the power.
Again, weak.
Thereby demonstrating that mindset, a characters individual comfort zone, a characters confidence etc can directly affect their power output and battle prowess and so be a factor in variation between hosts.
Curious how you changed "skill" to whatever the criteria is you are posting now.
As i stated previously, you’re forgetful and you can only keep up with the simplest, lines of argument. Each exchange we have, you forget what’s come before and it leads you to waste my time with posts like this.
😂
You are one to talk about being a simpleton.
I made the point that a factor that can cause variation in a host’s performance and leave them vulnerable is non-compliance with the Phoenix Forces agenda.
Where's the all important "skill" part in this?
I then referred to how that scan has Phoenix revealing to Jean that she is the cause of the universe being on its deathbed as she got distracted and emotionally engaged instead of just carrying out her Phoenix work.
Flat out lying, are we now?
Here's your original post.
However as Jean let herself get distracted and weighed down by human matters and concerns such as her relationship with Cyclops the Phoenix left her vulnerable and she was killed by Xorn.
Now, its 616 universe after you were called on it, huh?
We saw this in the story arc, instead of just dealing with Sublime as soon as the Phoenix re-appeared with her she was too focused on her marriage and life as an X-man. Instead of just taking out Sublime, she got careless, powered down, went to comfort Xorn when he was broken and defeated and ended up getting killed. This allowed Sublime to rise to prominence because she didnt just do her job, Sublime then infected reality so severely that by the time Jean did do what she was supposed to do and extract Sublime from reality, the damage to the universal body was too severe and she had to amputate 616s future leaving 616 wounded.
😂
And again with the flip flopping. You just can't stay cosnistent, can you?
So that was the point I made. Non compliance with "Phoenix work" leaves you without the full support of the Force.
And that is your conjecture connecting a past issue with an event occurring in a book a decade later which occurred in an alternate reality.
I'd laugh if I didn't know that you are being serious here.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In that scan, Doom has Cyclops suspended by his throat.Dr Strange could see that things were quickly going south and he raised his hand to prepare a teleportation spell to quickly help those heroes escape Dooms wrath as he knew after Doom had finished off Cyclops he would soon turn on the heroes
How on Earth you interpreted that Dr Strange helped Doom to fight Cyclops when you can see that Black Panther starts glowing and in the next panel the heroes are teleported away I really don’t know:
As I said the comprehension just isn’t there. Reading, effectively processing and interpreting information are not your strengths and that’s cool. Just acknowledge that and don’t waste people’s time. Get a new hobby. This isn’t for you
Cyclops took Doom by surprise and staggered him with an attack. Cyclops then starts talking shit, Doom recovers and grabs him in a chokehold. Strange knows the heroes would be next so he teleports his friends away to save them hence him raising his hand, T’challa asking what Strange is doing, Tichalla then glows and next panel everyone is teleported away to evade Doom.
Doom then questions Strange where he sent them and Strange confirms he teleported them away showing conclusively that my interpretation is correct.
Why on Earth would Dr Strange help Doom to take out Cyclops then turn bi polar, switch sides and help the heroes against Doom by teleporting them away?What kind of nutty interpretation is that? Youre rubbish. Give it up 😆
Doom was surprised by the attak and quickly recovers and easily kills Cyclops. Its inconclusive and nothing can be read from it to tell us how good the feat was. If Doom confronted Cyclops, or they both were aware thered be a battle, walked on to the battlefield and Cyclops hurt him like that then you’d have more justification in making a feat out of this.
As it stands its an extreme reach, just like all of your interpretations 😆
Should I take your concession on this one?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. Any more inane questions?
Oh no.
This response is weak. Can you not see that? 🙁
You're getting progressively worse, which is an achievement in itself LMAO
You're gonna make me do it to you again aren't you? 😆
Im starting to think you've got a kinky side cos you're clearly a glutton for punishment.
Let the verbal whipping commence! 😆
Originally posted by abhilegend
So quick to insults, huh? Always the sign of a weak debater.
Be humble and know your place.
Originally posted by abhilegend
And Phoenix lost by fleeing from Necrom. Some all powerful entity,huh?
Already addressed this. In terms of mindset at that point it was barely sentient and mostly an entity of instinct. That point is stated explicitly. It was a neutral power source for Feron.
Necrom defeated Feron and caused the entity pain. It fled.
Character behaviour and demonstrated power output are two separate things. You cannot discredit the feats by making reference to a characters behaviour. This is a thread about power.
Try again 😆
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, it was too cowardly to face Necrom. No wonder its still yellow.
Are you a child? 😆
Originally posted by abhilegend
So you are saying that Necrom is more skilled than Rachel, right? How did he die when Rachel transferred full phoenix force to him?
He was demonstrably more skilled than Rachel as shown in that story arc. However Necrom is still just a mortal man, he was force fed too much power and it overloaded him.
In the same way a person would be able to stomach three plates of food if they are tackling the plates at a pace they’re comfortable with, over a time period they feel they can comfortably manage it.
However if that very same amount of food is force fed to that person, shoved down their throat at a pace determined by someone else, with no insight or consideration for the persons capacity to ingest that food, then the victim is either going to choke or they’ll throw up way before they get near to finishing the 3rd plate.
So your point is redundant. The only way it could have had any value is if the situation was reversed and Rachel was subjected to the same treatment and through skill was able to wrest control of the power flow and survive.
What makes your point even more redundant is that Rachel never channelled the power into him, she asked the Phoenix Force itself to do it and it complied.
“I knew you wanted it all, so I willed the Phoenix to give it to you”
So it wasn’t Rachel’s energy manipulation skills vs Necroms, here it was simply down to the Phoenix following the will of its chosen host (vs Necrom who was a host via stolen power) and the Phoenix itself overloaded Necrom.
You really don’t think things through do you?
Rachel ended up near dead and comatose. But you didn’t want to highlight that did you? Of course not. Putting things into context doesn’t serve your agenda to win a debate at all costs regardless of whether you’re being truthful or not 😆
But thanks for highlighting another differentiating factor between how powerful a host is from another host….the will of the Phoenix itself. It favours who it favours. It is a sentient power source after all with preferences 😄
Phoenix who is your preferred host?
Yep. Jean Grey 😄
What is so so dumb about you using this example is that Necrom was a willing host. A very willing host. He wanted the power, yet when the opportunity was there he couldn’t just instantly wield the full power of the Phoenix. Therefore conclusively disproving your wacky theory that all hosts are equal in terms of the power they have access to, they just have to be willing.
A hosts pre-existing abilities/skills related to energy manipulation
Emotional state
The will and agenda of the Phoenix
These are some of the things that can affect battle prowess and cause power levels between hosts to differentiate.
Originally posted by abhilegendCurious how Phoenix isn't even stated to have any power on its own but it can only tap the energy of the universe and they are only "near infinite", huh? [/B]
I was waiting for you to pull this one out your rectum.
Dear Abhi, did you know that the Phoenix firebird is not the sum total of the Phoenix Force. It is just an avatar, a representation of the Big Bang/the universal life-force within reality?
”Feron called upon the Phoenix avatar”
”Tore out the portion of Phoenix Force that bonded his student to the avatar”
As ive shown throughout this thread, the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang. The sum and substance of all life/energy native to a universe. In its natural state it is formless and all-encompassing, ambient life as stated on panel.
However just like Eternity is the universe and yet requires an M-body/avatar to appear within himself, the Phoenix Force manifests within reality as the firebird avatar.
As you can read here Eternity is an Mbody avatar of the universe and as such isn’t power in itself this Mbody taps into power from that which it embodies, the chronal axis of the universe:
In the very same Alan Davis run of Excalibur that your scan comes from, it was explained very clearly in the Phoenixes battle with Galactus that the Phoenix firebird avatar is just an expression/representation of the universal life force within reality:
The reason these cosmic entities need to use M-Bodies or avatars is because if they gathered all their essence into one being, then that which they represent would not be found anywhere else within the universe. Therefore avatars which tap into their essence are necessary.
One of the reasons the Phoenix Force prefers to act through hosts instead of just carrying out its role as the firebird avatar is that as Galactus also explains the universe is a closed system. All energy and matter that is or ever will be within the universe is summed up in the Big Bang. Life feeds on life. There is nothing new created. Energy just transitions from state to state, being to being within that closed system. So when the Phoenix Force/Big Bang takes on sentience and becomes a life form itself within this closed universal system it is then an additional life form that thereby channelling life energy to sustain this firebird avatar instead of its power just being ambient energy there to facilitate future generations.
My true nature is without form touching all that lives
“My natural state is immortal of time and space yet beyond”
So the Phoenix is more than just whats represented within reality
“My presence here is sustained by life-force stolen from that which I celebrate”
The avatar cannibalizes life by existing. It is not power in itself, it taps into the universal life-force that is the Phoenix Force/Big Bang.
At the end of the run, the Phoenix Force gave up its avatar and allowed Rachel limited access to its power warning her not to draw on more universal life-force as it would be by having a sentient presence in reality itself.
Aww. Did I spoil your big moment? You thought you had me didn’t you?
Never 😱
Originally posted by abhilegend
You are the one who was rejecting retcons, citing secret wars as out of continuity, weren't you? What changed?
Your misunderstanding is what’s leading you to talk nonsense and waste my time. Educate yourself.
I have never cited Secret Wars as out of continuity. That’s the dumbest is ive ever heard. I have said that characters and story elements from Secret Wars 1 and 2 have been retconned and that is true.
Originally posted by abhilegend
So weak as a host, wasn't she?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Again, weak.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Curious how you changed "skill" to whatever the criteria is you are posting now.
I don’t have to mention all factors behind a hosts differing power levels when the point of discussion at that time was regarding a scan highlighting just one of them.
Youre not on my level. Stay in your lane 😄
Originally posted by abhilegend
With all that comprehension you are throwing around (was it Jean, universe or whatever), you still haven't shown a feat superior to Scott harming God Doom for any other phoenix host.Should I take your concession on this one?
Why would i have to disprove something that you have failed to prove in the 1st place? 😆
God Doom is surprised by Cyclops attack. You have zero evidence to say that if they both stepped on to the battle field prepared for a fight, that Cyclops could've harmed him.
Therefore hyping him harming God Doom with a surprise attack as the best Phoenix feat is weak. The incident was inconclusive.
I will not address this point again. I've won this line of argument 😎
Ive proven that the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang
Ive proven that the firebird is not the sum of the Phoenix Force but just its avatar that taps its power
Ive proven that the Phoenix has a number of multiversal feats and universal feats greater than the IGs best
Ive proven that not all Phoenix hosts are equal and that there are a number of factors that can result in a power differentiation
Ive proven you have a short term memory
That you have difficulty interpreting comic book scans
That you lack integrity and will deny comic book evidence that is conclusive and explicitly states points, if it doesnt fit in with your agenda
Ive proven youre either not very intelligent or you lie.
Ive proven that you're a waste of a KMC account.
GS is back baby!!!! 😱 😆
The back and forth whilst entertaining is no longer necessary. I clearly have the substantially stronger case than you Abhi.
So given that i have two scans that explicitly and conclusively(without ambiguity or room for interpretation) say that the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang as well as numerous scans alluding to it (e.g PRIME universal life force, universe would be a void without it, the need to study the inner working of the Big Bang in order to learn how to stop the Phoenix, wellspring of the stars) please show a couple of in continuity scans from different sources that explicitly state that another being is the Big Bang. (Same entity being acknowledged in both different scans) and then show throughout current continuity scans which allude to that same entity being the Big Bang.
I want you to refer current continuity, post Age of Apocalypse comic book scans that show that the M'kraan crystal is no longer a multiversal nexus of realities. So i dont want you to pop up with a scan saying that something is also a nexus of realities. I want you to show scans featuring the M'kraan crystal where its status has been retconned yet again.
I then want you to show any IG wielders puling off multiple multiversal feats greater than containing a multiversal power, as well as any universal feats undoubtedly greater than casually wiping out a universe with a thought and casually controlling all matter and energy that makes up a universe down to the atomic level.
I wont hold my breath 🙄 😆