Oh whats this? 😕
Ive awoken to zero tomfoolery. 😄
Its a shame you couldnt be a man and say fair enough GS you got me. But it is what it is.
Theres no shame in defeat Abhi-TallTales. Its a constructive experience. Embrace it 👆
The Phoenix Force is the Big Bang and prime life force from which everything native to a universe derives from 🤘
Phoenix hosts have pulled off multiple feats greater than the IGs best 🤘
My work here is done! 😎
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Wow.Did you truly believe this is an adequate and effective response to me?
Lack of comprehension, pride and stubbornness are an unfortunate combination as you’re demonstrating.
Let Day 3 of the beatdown commence.You will learn 😱
Deflected?
Ive been giving the same consistent message since we started this 3 days ago:
It was a whupping most severe. I probably would’ve blocked out such trauma as well 😆
You have some serious cognitive dissonance.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Losing control means you cant plan effective and youre not acting with strategy, youre just wildly lashing out, so it definitely put a user at a severe disadvantage against a calm and collected combatant with a strategic mindset.
Furthermore, hosts are generally heroes who want to do the right thing, losing control means lashing out and putting innocent life at risk, so as demonstrated by Rachel and Jean in the scans ive shown, if their emotional state isn’t stable, then they are forced to cap their power output to a manageable level to avoid going Dark Phoenix.Here is Nero who despite being a very willing host who sought the power, lacked the mental strength and willpower to cope with controlling an energy source that has a mind of its own:
So emotional state and willpower have a direct effect on how effectively a user can wield the Phoenix Force.
Furthermore as I showed previously, Necrom who possessed just a stolen portion of the Force, was able to output more power and display more effective energy manipulation feats than Rachel despite her being bonded to more of the Force:
[B]“You wield the Phoenix like a clumsy tool”
Therefore your point that a host just has to be willing to be a host then they can effectively wield its power at full capacity is conclusively a dud.
Ive already conclusively demonstrated that emotional state and willpower can cause variation in host performance.Necrom’s demonstrated that pre-existing skill with energy manipulation as well is a factor.
The Phoenix traditionally has favoured powerful telepaths fro a reason. It is a nexus of psychic energy therefore its power can be more effectively wielded by someone already proficient with wielding psionic energy.
Someone like Jean Grey.
What does the Phoenix say about Jean Grey?
That she is her most powerful and influential host ever. Thereby consluisvely showing there are differences in power between hosts. There were many willing hosts and yet the Force still said Jean was the most powerful of them all.
You have ZERO justification to push your unsupported theory that someone just has to be willing to be a host to have full access to the Phoenix power. Its conclusively demonstrated and stated that that is not the case.
To argue otherwise in the face of explicit and conslusive evidence to the contrary demonstrates that you are not debating to highlight the truth, you are stubbornly flapping those gums and talking nonsense out of pride.
Be a man and know when you are beaten. [/B]
The anti phoenix part enhances his already considerable power. It wasn't a sliver of phoenix against full phoenix force. It was Necrom's magical power+anti phoenix against full phoenix force and Phoenix was losing.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You’re losing the plot here.Our point of discussion was that there are factors which can cause variations in showings between hosts.
That scan showed that a hosts emotional state can be a factor. Jeans worries made her subconsciously erect psychic barriers which put a power cap on her meaning she couldn’t access as much power, thereby affecting her battle prowess.
We saw this when just after saving the multiverse from the M’kraan crystal she would then go on to be taken out by a minor mutant with a tranquiliser gun:
Notice how it says that she went to react put nothing happen. Why? Psychic power cap
She later fought Magneto and was dominating, then hit a psychic power cap and lost the battle:
So once again, you [B]CONCLUSIVELY
cannot say that as long as hosts want to be a host then all hosts are equal in their ability to use the force and all have access to the full scope of the Phoenixes power and capability. It is shown and stated on panel that is not the case.Emotional state
Willpower
Pre-existing abilitiesAll these factors are not equal in people and yet are stated on panel and demonstrated on panel to determine how much power someone has access to and how effectively they can wield it.
Do not mention this theory again. [/B]
https://www.cbr.com/x-men-phoenix-off-limit-heroes/
"As the late Dave Cockrum revealed to Tom DeFalco in the amazing Comic Creators on X-Men, "When we first introduced Phoenix, we wanted her to fight Thor or the Silver Surfer, but [Whoever was in charge at the time - Cockrum incorrectly attributed the decision to Jim Shooter, who was not yet Marvel Editor-in-Chief, so it couldn't have been him - BC] wouldn’t allow it. He said no female is going to beat Thor or the Silver Surfer. We kind of sneaked around him by sending her up against Firelord, who had once fought Thor to a standstill. We established her power levels that way.”"
In fact under Claremont, Storm was as powerful as Phoenix and the saving of universe was done with help and not something she could do normally.
Don't come to me with such nonsense.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Incorrect.They are not talking about almost killing the amputated future.
They are talking about almost killing 616 as a result of Jean amputating its future (Here Comes Tomorrow) off of it.
When Jean states that her friends don’t deserve this end, the Phoenix Force reveals it was her fault things turned out this way as instead of just carrying out her “Phoenix work”, it says[B]“You lost concentration. Became emotionally engaged”
Her deviation from her duties lead to what happened. Her focus on her relationship and her life as an X-man.
Her death, Sublimes rise to prominence and her subsequently having to extract Sublime from reality, then amputate the future thereby wounding 616, it was all the result of her choices. Her lack of concentration and emotional engagement.
Do not debate or raise challenges on matters you have little knowledge of. Be humble.
Regardless , the Force is mutable and indestructible. Jean Greys error, her becoming distracted, letting her guard down to comfort Zorn and getting killed as a result does not take away from what she is capable of.
Character behaviour, durability showings and power output are not one and the same. A low showing in one does not take away from what is demonstrated in the others.
Acknowledge that and move on. [/B]
"Is this the future"?
"You lost concentration. Became emotionally engaged. Shock almost killed it.Will patient die unless internal heart damage repaired.
"But it didn't deserve to end like that".
Its clear Phoenix and Jean are talking about the future timeline and not Jean's death. She didn't almost die.
You are either trolling or are just incredibly dense.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Where was this? 😕Where did Doom need Strange in his fight with Cyclops? Phoenix Cyclops caught Doom by surprise and staggered him, Cyclops started boasting and then Doom recovered and snapped his neck.
Inconclusive. Doom was surprised. Nothing to say that Cyclops would’ve hurt Doom like he did if Doom wasn’t caught off guard. Therefore its not a feat we can read too much into. Redundant point.
Plus following that 2015 incident, the Phoenix years later still confirmed that Jean was its most powerful host. That’s conclusive. Give it a rest.This isnt anger or frustration. This is the calculated 1st degree murder of your tomfoolery and I’m doing it with a smile 😆
What point are you trying to make here exactly? Thor attacked the firebird avatar, he disrupted its energy form, the avatar spun back ate a planet in seconds and then took him out, dragged him across space and dumped him in a broken pile on the moon
Bro. The Phoenix is indestructible, mutable energy. It doesn’t matter if you disrupt or splinter its energy form. It cannot be destroyed. Splintering its form does not take away from its power output showings.
Please stop typing, take a breather and give your brain time to process this point im trying to drive into your skull lol
Durability, character behaviours/CIS and power output are SEPARATE things. You cannot take away from the Phoenix Forces power output demonstrations by saying the Forces energy form got disrupted or a human host got killed. Understand the distinction 😆
We see Panther saying "What are you doing Stephen" as Phoenix brought Doom to his knees.
Multiverse was rebooted, Phoenix has no way of knowing what Scott did because it had no memory of that. Also feats>statements and Scott bringing Doom to his knees shits on anything Jean has ever done.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Bro. You are the mess here. You struggle to grasp the most basic concepts, you throw around “evidence” that actually helps my case instead of your own and each exchange we have in the thread its as if your brain reaches its capacity, resets and you forget what we talked about earlier in the same thread 😆
When I was referring to facing universal abstracts I was contrasting Thanos’s IG feats with Phoenixes. Or did you forget the purpose of this debate?
I made the very valid point that beating universal abstracts who each are just facets of that universe may be the visually exciting and visually impressive for a comic book reader but in terms of power output, fighting within a universe and lording over everything in a universe pales in comparison to casually having total telekinetic control of all that makes up a universe down to its component atoms. To do so you would have to wield more energy than is contained in said universe and this is all without any discernible effort. What feats could she pull off with severe exertion and what does the ease Jean did this with then implicate about the power of the Phoenix Force who was at the time also empowering a hall full of other hosts as depicted.Fascinating 😄
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75182/5408393-6472371086-j7t54.jpg
I've said everything I wanted to tell and proved about here comes tomorrow scene. You are repeating the same scan multiple times to prove what exactly? Its the same thing Master used to do, repeat the same thing until the others get bored and leave the thread and then claim himself the winner.
Don't bore me.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Bro. You are the mess here. You struggle to grasp the most basic concepts, you throw around “evidence” that actually helps my case instead of your own and each exchange we have in the thread its as if your brain reaches its capacity, resets and you forget what we talked about earlier in the same thread 😆
When I was referring to facing universal abstracts I was contrasting Thanos’s IG feats with Phoenixes. Or did you forget the purpose of this debate?
I made the very valid point that beating universal abstracts who each are just facets of that universe may be the visually exciting and visually impressive for a comic book reader but in terms of power output, fighting within a universe and lording over everything in a universe pales in comparison to casually having total telekinetic control of all that makes up a universe down to its component atoms. To do so you would have to wield more energy than is contained in said universe and this is all without any discernible effort. What feats could she pull off with severe exertion and what does the ease Jean did this with then implicate about the power of the Phoenix Force who was at the time also empowering a hall full of other hosts as depicted.Fascinating 😄
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Your comprehension is poor. So poor.I never once said the m’kraan crystal contained the whole multiverse. Find that in this thread and I’ll concede right now.
You wont find that because Its idiotic and imbecilic and therefore something you could never attribute to me.
After this debate that plaque is firmly suspended from your neck for all time Abhi-TallTales
The M’kraan crystal is a nexus for all realities of the marvel multiverse. When its power is unleashed then multiversal destruction will ensue unless it is stopped.
The crystal was retconned to being a multiversal nexus of realities in Age of Apocalypse and its capacity for multiversal destruction was referred to and demonstrated on panel:The M’kraan crystal destroyed the 7th iteration of the multiverse that Galan came from and that is canon. So its multiversal power is not disputable.
No they don’t.
This is your own evidence:
It does [B]NOT
state that the Here Comes Tomorrow future was amputated through Jean nudging Cyclops to forget her and forge a future with Emma.It states that Jean was able to heal the wounded orphan universe by healing it with her hearts blood i.e letting go of her personal connection to reality and urging Scott to move on.
This is all true. However it is a summary of what happened without all of the detail. It doesn’t even refer to the amputation of the future.
What wounded 616 in the 1st place? The amputation of the diseased Here Comes Tomorrow future.
Jean then healed that wound through nudging Scott to move on with his life. Which allowed a new dimensional stem to grow from the stump left when Jean amputated Here Comes Tomorrow.
The incident is also referred to in another handbook entry that ive also posted previously:
This one refers not only to the severing of the future but it then also refers to the nudging of Cyclops as a separate step that followed after the severing of the future thus confirming that my interpretation is correct.
The two handbook entries don’t contradict each other, they say the same thing, except my one goes into further detail.
The problem was you misinterpreted your own evidence.
You just really don’t understand things. This is a worrying theme. Stop debating. The comprehension skills just aren't there lol [/B]
You are behaving just like a troll BTW.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Oh whats this? 😕Ive awoken to zero tomfoolery. 😄
Its a shame you couldnt be a man and say fair enough GS you got me. But it is what it is.
Theres no shame in defeat Abhi-TallTales. Its a constructive experience. Embrace it 👆
The Phoenix Force is the Big Bang and prime life force from which everything native to a universe derives from 🤘
Phoenix hosts have pulled off multiple feats greater than the IGs best 🤘
My work here is done! 😎
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
LMAO That's ****ing HILARIOUS! 😆 Abhi got spanked and fled off lmaoooo. Saving this
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, I do. You are only so much worth of my time after all.You have some serious cognitive dissonance.
Im only so much worth of your time yh?
Quit before you put your foot in it.
This broken English isn't gonna get you anywhere mate. 😆
The audacity of trying to debate with me when you can barely string a coherent sentence together.
You will learn today kid! 😆
Originally posted by abhilegend
What's the point of repeating the same scans again and again? Necrom was already powerful enough to beat Phoenix Force and made it flee to the stars.
The scans are there to complement the accompanying argument. You’ve demonstrated numerous times that there is a deficiency in your short term collection, so its for your benefit more than mine.
Plus its always nice to highlight that my line of argument is officially supported. Whilst yours derives from your anal passage 😱
As stated on panel, following its rebirth the Phoenix Force had no sentience, it was just ambient life, it had no emotion, no agenda, nothing. It just was.
Feron reached out to it and was granted access to a portion of its essence which enhanced his abilities. It was a neutral power source, nothing more
Feron was best by Necrom and he ripped the portion of the Phoenix from the Feron. This pained the Phoenix and it fled, the same way a scolded infant might flee from something that caused it pain.
The Phoenix Force itself never faced Necrom. Necrom faced an inexperienced Phoenix host, he tore out the power and the neutral Force deserted the Earth.
The Phoenixes character in that moment doesn’t take away from its power output. Your point is irrelevant to a debate about comparative output.
Originally posted by abhilegend
The anti phoenix part enhances his already considerable power. It wasn't a sliver of phoenix against full phoenix force. It was Necrom's magical power+anti phoenix against full phoenix force and Phoenix was losing.
Necrom as a base sorcerer was not capable in terms of power of achieving his goals. Therefore he sought out the Phoenix Force realizing its value in augmenting him.
So how are you demeaning the Force by saying that a Phoenix augmented sorcerer wielding a portion of the Force was pulling off better feats than a telepath augmented by slightly more of the Force?
Youre very weird. Your arguments are illogical and they don’t prove what you want them to 😆
All you’re doing is further demonstrating my point that power output and ability to pull off feats can vary between hosts according to their pre-existing experience and ability with energy manipulation.
Feron had access to a portion of the Force yet for all that power, he was a student of Necrom so he was bested by far greater skill and experience.
Necrom had a portion of the Force and Rachel had a greater portion of the Force. Necrom dominated for 99% of the battle as he was a master sorcerer with years upon years more experience with energy manipulation.
Thank you for continuing to make me shine. You have your uses kid. Even if they end at that. 😱
Originally posted by abhilegend
You are the one who is losing the plot here. Claremont wasn't making Phoenix some cosmic abstract, he wanted Phoenix to be on the same level as Thor and Silver Surfer.https://www.cbr.com/x-men-phoenix-off-limit-heroes/
"As the late Dave Cockrum revealed to Tom DeFalco in the amazing Comic Creators on X-Men, "When we first introduced Phoenix, we wanted her to fight Thor or the Silver Surfer, but [Whoever was in charge at the time - Cockrum incorrectly attributed the decision to Jim Shooter, who was not yet Marvel Editor-in-Chief, so it couldn't have been him - BC] wouldn’t allow it. He said no female is going to beat Thor or the Silver Surfer. We kind of sneaked around him by sending her up against Firelord, who had once fought Thor to a standstill. We established her power levels that way.”"
In fact under Claremont, Storm was as powerful as Phoenix and the saving of universe was done with help and not something she could do normally.
Don't come to me with such nonsense.
Bro your brain is faulty. Get a refund 😆
Acknowledge that a retcon took place. That means that we are to view the new version of events as if they were always the case.
So when you go back to older stories written under a different continuity, it doesn’t matter, you read it as per the new status quo.
Before you reply. Read my response. Take a break. Then read it again. Take the time out to process information that you clearly need.
Here is how you are to interpret those old scenes under current continuity:
She subconsciously erected psychic barriers to reduce her power to a certain level that her as a person felt she could safely wield.
I also referred to scenes that explicitly demonstrate Rachel doing the same thing i.e limiting her power output to facilitate safe usage of the power.
Thereby demonstrating that mindset, a characters individual comfort zone, a characters confidence etc can directly affect their power output and battle prowess and so be a factor in variation between hosts.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Your reading comprehension is just atrocious. Read the full sentence and then come to me. I'm not here to spoonfeed you."Is this the future"?
"You lost concentration. Became emotionally engaged. Shock almost killed it.Will patient die unless internal heart damage repaired.
"But it didn't deserve to end like that".Its clear Phoenix and Jean are talking about the future timeline and not Jean's death. She didn't almost die.
You are either trolling or are just incredibly dense.
As i stated previously, you’re forgetful and you can only keep up with the simplest, lines of argument. Each exchange we have, you forget what’s come before and it leads you to waste my time with posts like this.
I made the point that a factor that can cause variation in a host’s performance and leave them vulnerable is non-compliance with the Phoenix Forces agenda.
I then referred to how that scan has Phoenix revealing to Jean that she is the cause of the universe being on its deathbed as she got distracted and emotionally engaged instead of just carrying out her Phoenix work. We saw this in the story arc, instead of just dealing with Sublime as soon as the Phoenix re-appeared with her she was too focused on her marriage and life as an X-man. Instead of just taking out Sublime, she got careless, powered down, went to comfort Xorn when he was broken and defeated and ended up getting killed. This allowed Sublime to rise to prominence because she didnt just do her job, Sublime then infected reality so severely that by the time Jean did do what she was supposed to do and extract Sublime from reality, the damage to the universal body was too severe and she had to amputate 616s future leaving 616 wounded.
So that was the point I made. Non compliance with "Phoenix work" leaves you without the full support of the Force.
However you looked at the scan and like a complete donut said what was dying was the amputated reality. Even now youre saying theyre talking about healing the amputated future timeline. Theyre not.
Jean amputated that future and what she holds in her hand is the extract Sublime bacterial colony. When shes asking is this the future she means is this whats in store for her friends. Which is why the Phoenix then lets her know it was her fault and she replies saying her friends don’t deserve that outcome.
Why the hell would they be concerned about healing an amputated diseased limb? You heal the rest of the body that’s left behind. What was dying was the 616 universe that had the diseased future cut off of it. A situation caused by Jeans lack of concentration and her emotional engagement instead of just doing what she was supposed to do.
Thats why you later have Jean healing 616, by nudging Scott to take a different path than he did previously (the one that caused Here Comes Tomorrow) so that way instead of letting 616 die, Jean ensured it had a future.
This will go way over your head because you just dont get stuff. The smarts just arent there. However it doesnt matter anyway because i already proved yesterday that Phoenix hosts differ in power levels 😆
Originally posted by abhilegend
Jason Aaron's avengers run.We see Panther saying "What are you doing Stephen" as Phoenix brought Doom to his knees.
Multiverse was rebooted, Phoenix has no way of knowing what Scott did because it had no memory of that. Also feats>statements and Scott bringing Doom to his knees shits on anything Jean has ever done.
In that scan, Doom has Cyclops suspended by his throat.
Dr Strange could see that things were quickly going south and he raised his hand to prepare a teleportation spell to quickly help those heroes escape Dooms wrath as he knew after Doom had finished off Cyclops he would soon turn on the heroes
How on Earth you interpreted that Dr Strange helped Doom to fight Cyclops when you can see that Black Panther starts glowing and in the next panel the heroes are teleported away I really don’t know:
As I said the comprehension just isn’t there. Reading, effectively processing and interpreting information are not your strengths and that’s cool. Just acknowledge that and don’t waste people’s time. Get a new hobby. This isn’t for you
Cyclops took Doom by surprise and staggered him with an attack. Cyclops then starts talking shit, Doom recovers and grabs him in a chokehold. Strange knows the heroes would be next so he teleports his friends away to save them hence him raising his hand, T’challa asking what Strange is doing, Tichalla then glows and next panel everyone is teleported away to evade Doom.
Doom then questions Strange where he sent them and Strange confirms he teleported them away showing conclusively that my interpretation is correct.
Why on Earth would Dr Strange help Doom to take out Cyclops then turn bi polar, switch sides and help the heroes against Doom by teleporting them away?
What kind of nutty interpretation is that? Youre rubbish. Give it up 😆
Doom was surprised by the attak and quickly recovers and easily kills Cyclops. Its inconclusive and nothing can be read from it to tell us how good the feat was. If Doom confronted Cyclops, or they both were aware thered be a battle, walked on to the battlefield and Cyclops hurt him like that then you’d have more justification in making a feat out of this.
As it stands its an extreme reach, just like all of your interpretations 😆
[QUOTE=17351857]Originally posted by abhilegend
[B] What are you even trying to say in this hodgepodge of a post? M'kraan Crystal is multiversal now because of age of apocalypse retcon and Phoenix saved the multiverse now? That's idiotic on so many levels. Here, read what Claremont himself said about the crystal incident.
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75182/5408393-6472371086-j7t54.jpg
Yes. Thats exactly what im saying. The crystal retcon means that as far as continuity is concerned, the crystal was ALWAYS multiversal. So when we go back and read those old Uncanny X-men issues we read the crystal as having been multiversal. Thats how a retcon works. After 10yrs of being on this forum you cannot tell me you dont realise this? 😆
Youre seriously going to try and use some old ass interview that predates the retcon to try and deny the impact of the retcon? 🙄
The desperation has reached new depths. This pleases me 😄
Originally posted by abhilegend
I've said everything I wanted to tell and proved about here comes tomorrow scene. You are repeating the same scan multiple times to prove what exactly? Its the same thing Master used to do, repeat the same thing until the others get bored and leave the thread and then claim himself the winner.Don't bore me.
What youre doing is misinterpreting scans again and again and stubbornly refusing to admit youre beaten.
You said the future was amputated by Jean nudging Cyclops to change his actions.
I proved that was incorrect conclusively as the comic shows and the handbook describes the amputation occurred 1st and pages later the nudging followed to heal the wound caused by the amputation.
You stated that the thing that was wounded and needed healing was the amputated future.
Who tries to heal an amputated diseased limb. If it could be healed it would be left on the body. 😆
The thing that needed healing was the 616 universe after the future was amputated. The wound was healed by Jean changing events i.e. giving that nudge, so that a new future would grow from the stump.
😄
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's... clear that Strange meant only to teleport them and T'Challa simply noticed his magical gesture and the orange glow before the spell was fully activated.Unless I'm missing something here, Abhi?
Exactly this 👆
The guy cannot truly believe in a bipolar Dr Strange. 😆
Abhis wild interpretation is a sign of the depths he'll sink to in order to try and win a debate.
He'll also try and tell you the M'Kraan crystal isnt a multiversal nexus because of an old ass interview he found that predates the retcon 😆
We should be debating to get to the truth. This guys debating for clout hes lacking beyond the forum.
Lets take a moment of silence for Abhi-TallTales, because in this thread i committed murder stretcher
