Blade vs Batman

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I've already proven that it's not standard gear. He didn't bring Boy Thing with him to fight Khonshu's worshippers, he didn't bring him to fight in the War of the Realms, he didn't bring him to the Ukraine with Drac, once back in NYC he didn't bring him to fight symbiotes, and in the latest Phoenix storyline he was left behind to babysit. Even when Cosmic GR came he told Boy Thing to go hide somewhere safe.

He's a separate character, like Robin or Alfred or Oracle. I can post dozens of scans showing Batman using those three in his fights and using them on standard patrols, but they're not considered standard gear. I know Blade took him after the War of the Realms to fight vamps, but that doesn't make him standard gear.

Moreover, forum rules clearly state that no amps for standard characters are used.

The converse of all of this, of course, seems to be [b]without Boy Thing, you admit Blade loses.

With him? Blade has a shot, I agree. But Bats can still win. [/B]

Separate character that has chosen to always stay with Blade. And is also able to be used as a weapon.
Blue Beetle gotta whole scarab on his back doing way more iller shit than Boy Thing does for blade. Same concept basically....

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Why not? Though its fairly new It's STILL his gear he is currently using and has used since last year. Do you see Batman using the shock gloves always, etc? Boy thing is just there like think of A symbiote that chooses not to merge always.

He's had BT for two years now, and as I explicitly mentioned Blade only really used him in battle once (and then, it was BT's idea not Blade's).

Ah, I was waiting for this argument - that Batman doesn't always use X, Y or Z, so why should we assume X, Y, or Z is standard?

Simple. With zero special prep, he has been shown to carry:

https://imgur.com/a/1zZeN

Item 42 = ~30%. Note that BatarangS, plural, are counted as ONE item. So the belt, alone, has ~140 items, and some items are actually GROUPS of items (like the lockpickS and the BatarangS).

And note this is the utility belt alone. His gauntlets, his cowl, his cape, his boots etc, they ALL have items hidden in them. His teeth have smoke bombs in them, his skin has acid in them, etc etc.

Boy Thing IS just there, I agree. Except in the comics I named above, he isn't even shown. When he IS shown, when Blade DOES take him into battle, he is shown.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Separate character that has chosen to always stay with Blade. And is also able to be used as a weapon.
Blue Beetle gotta whole scarab on his back doing way more iller shit than Boy Thing does for blade. Same concept basically....

He hasn't always chosen to stay with Blade, That's my point. There are way more instances of him not being with Blade than with.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's had BT for two years now, and as I explicitly mentioned Blade only really used him in battle once (and then, it was BT's idea not Blade's).

Ah, I was waiting for this argument - that Batman doesn't always use X, Y or Z, so why should we assume X, Y, or Z is standard?

Simple. With zero special prep, he has been shown to carry:

https://imgur.com/a/1zZeN

Item 42 = ~30%. Note that Batarang[b]S, plural, are counted as ONE item. So the belt, alone, has ~140 items, and some items are actually GROUPS of items (like the lockpickS and the BatarangS).

And note this is the utility belt alone. His gauntlets, his cowl, his cape, his boots etc, they ALL have items hidden in them. His teeth have smoke bombs in them, his skin has acid in them, etc etc.

Boy Thing IS just there, I agree. Except in the comics I named above, he isn't even shown. When he IS shown, when Blade DOES take him into battle, he is shown.

He hasn't always chosen to stay with Blade, That's my point. There are way more instances of him not being with Blade than with. [/B]

Two years? And its not standard gear? How sway?

Because of this. When I said he "had" Boy thing, I meant Boy thing has only appeared for two years in TOTAL. Of those two years, Blade only had him to fight with in ONE storyline, and off panel for another.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Blade joined in Avengers #10. We are now on #42. Not all of those issues 10-42 had Blade, sometimes not even the current Avengers. BT only appeared in issue #17.

You had to rely on a cover, when we all know comic covers aren't always the best guide to their contents.

Of the issues so far (Feb 2021, also when THIS thread was made) with KiB, Blade does NOT have BT with him. I have posted the scans - artists can say whatever they like, [b]we don't care. We go by what is on panel. And on panel, so far for KiB, BT is not there.

War of the Realms did NOT have BT on Blade's shoulder - I posted the scans. AFTER it was all done, when Shulk is literally clean up crew -THEN BT was being used:

But DURING the event?

BT appears in Avengers #17.
#18, War of the Realms. No BT
#19 - Blade is shown fighting, no BT
#20 - Blade is shown fighting, no BT
#21 - The scans above-Blade is shown with BT going off to fight vamps. War of the Realms is EXPLICITLY over. Blade fights using BT
#22 - Blade is with BT as they stand around talking
#23 - Cosmic GR attacks, Blade sends BT away when fighting starts No BT fighting with Blade.
#24 - Blade fights with the breathing gun (first time); no BT
#25 - Blade is fighting in Hell, no BT
#26 - flashback, no Blade
#27 - Blade walking around and talking, no BT(except when he gives a rose to Black Widow). Fast forward to a few weeks later, then they are in GR's car.
#28 - they're in GR's car, Blade is dying
#29 - The surfer feat (BT's idea, not Blade's) Blade fights using BT
#30 - Gladiator feat Blade fights using BT
#31 - No Blade, only Stark
#32 - Blade is about to leave with BT, gets talked back by Widow
#32-37 - Blade fights; no BT this is the Khonshu arc
#38 - Blade is shown, no BT
#39 - Flashback
#40 - Blade fights when Namor attacks; no BT
#41 - no Blade
#42 - It's shown BT is babysitting. no BT fighting with Blade.

That's.....pretty bad for supposed 'standard' equipment. I am NOT saying that just because he doesn't whip it out that we automatically assume BT isn't there - I am saying BT isn't even shown. We have entire arcs and issues where BT isn't even mentioned. Blade has multiple fights in multiple issues without BT - and BT has only been around for 25 ish issues. Of those 25, Blade appears in around 18 issues. Of those 18, he is shown fighting in 13 issues. Of those, Blade only fights with BT in 2, with a 3 instance off-panel (with the vamps). And that was in one single arc, the Starbrand arc.

That's it.

Thus, he isn't standard equipment. [/B]

I wouldn't even use War of the realms arc to argue since BT was literally on the other side at first.
Sending BT away kinda point to BT was with him.
Breathing gun, BT was there also blade got mad at CGR for what he did to BT.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I wouldn't even use War of the realms arc to argue since BT was literally on the other side at first.
Sending BT away kinda point to BT was with him.
Breathing gun, BT was there also blade got mad at CGR for what he did to BT.

Nope, he started sitting on Blade's shoulder in issue #17. But Blade didn't use him during the WoR.

When CGR attacked, Blade told BT to run away somewhere safe and took him off his shoulder.

My point being, which you either don't understand or don't want to, is that. Blade doesn't turn up to fights automatically with BT on his shoulder. As shown by my summary.

You've gotta be kidding me smh Boy thing also was used as wings, He has Boy thing, He is a host to it. It's essentially his standard gear now.

He's not it's host though. And as I showed, BT doesn't always go around with Blade. You're just trolling now.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's not it's host though. And as I showed, BT doesn't always go around with Blade. You're just trolling now.

He used boything to kill the colonel

BT merges with blade while blade had a red sun poisoning and stabbed surfer:

Shown again here fighting fire lord

Shown again stabbing Gladiator

But let's act like BT was only used 2 times smh

The Firelord/Surfer/Glads scans are from like the same two issues...same storyline...issue #29/30.

From issue 18 on....he's not used that much.

Your use of the Colonel scan kinda messes your point up about war if the realms lol.

Please stop trolling.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The Firelord/Surfer/Glads scans are from like the same two issues...same storyline...issue #29/30.

From issue 18 on....he's not used that much.

Your use of the Colonel scan kinda messes your point up about war if the realms lol.

Please stop trolling.

From issue 18 on He's used it 4 times.. just because scans are in the same issue doesn't mean you ignore it being used.
Its his standard.

Unless you're saying shock knuckles are not batmans standard because he doesn't use it that much

And he's not used BT for around 10 times. He's not even with Blade. So sorry, not standard equipment. This isn't like Batman's gear, because Batman carries a LOT of stuff with him.

Blade doesn't carry BT as standard. As proved by my list of comic issues.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Blade joined in Avengers #10. We are now on #42. Not all of those issues 10-42 had Blade, sometimes not even the current Avengers. BT only appeared in issue #17.

You had to rely on a cover, when we all know comic covers aren't always the best guide to their contents.

Of the issues so far (Feb 2021, also when THIS thread was made) with KiB, Blade does NOT have BT with him. I have posted the scans - artists can say whatever they like, [b]we don't care. We go by what is on panel. And on panel, so far for KiB, BT is not there.

War of the Realms did NOT have BT on Blade's shoulder - I posted the scans. AFTER it was all done, when Shulk is literally clean up crew -THEN BT was being used:

But DURING the event?

BT appears in Avengers #17.
#18, War of the Realms. No BT
#19 - Blade is shown fighting, no BT
#20 - Blade is shown fighting, no BT
#21 - The scans above-Blade is shown with BT going off to fight vamps. War of the Realms is EXPLICITLY over. Blade fights using BT
#22 - Blade is with BT as they stand around talking
#23 - Cosmic GR attacks, Blade sends BT away when fighting starts No BT fighting with Blade.
#24 - Blade fights with the breathing gun (first time); no BT
#25 - Blade is fighting in Hell, no BT
#26 - flashback, no Blade
#27 - Blade walking around and talking, no BT(except when he gives a rose to Black Widow). Fast forward to a few weeks later, then they are in GR's car.
#28 - they're in GR's car, Blade is dying
#29 - The surfer feat (BT's idea, not Blade's) Blade fights using BT
#30 - Gladiator feat Blade fights using BT
#31 - No Blade, only Stark
#32 - Blade is about to leave with BT, gets talked back by Widow
#32-37 - Blade fights; no BT this is the Khonshu arc
#38 - Blade is shown, no BT
#39 - Flashback
#40 - Blade fights when Namor attacks; no BT
#41 - no Blade
#42 - It's shown BT is babysitting. no BT fighting with Blade.

That's.....pretty bad for supposed 'standard' equipment. I am NOT saying that just because he doesn't whip it out that we automatically assume BT isn't there - I am saying BT isn't even shown. We have entire arcs and issues where BT isn't even mentioned. Blade has multiple fights in multiple issues without BT - and BT has only been around for 25 ish issues. Of those 25, Blade appears in around 18 issues. Of those 18, he is shown fighting in 13 issues. Of those, Blade only fights with BT in 2, with a 3 instance off-panel (with the vamps). And that was in one single arc, the Starbrand arc.

That's it.

Thus, he isn't standard equipment. [/B]

Yea I'm sorry this is just flawed logic and you're intentionally obfuscating. Blade has had boy-thing for every major arc, and in the arcs where he hasn't been shown it's usually explicitly stated why. Your point largely rests on 3 arcs where you're arguing he's not explicitly shown.

We know in one arc, we se that Blade has been using boy-thing predominantly for travel (War of the Realms)

King in Black, and event that is currently on-going, we see evidence in a future story that will detail what Blade and Boy-Thing have been up to.

The only one I will grant is Khonshu in which it isn't explicitly stated, but one event in 2 years is the inconsistency, not the other way around.

Again, you can do the same with Blade and his guns. He has been depicted with boy-thing more consistently than he has fire arms the past few years, but we acknowledge that Blade (a character that has variable gear like Punisher), we based standard on what we tend to see him use. The fact that it has to be explicitly explained where boy-thing is in Blade's appearances means its standard. Again, I'd be happy to bring a mod in on the exact definition of standard, but you're grasping at straws here.

The idea that you peddled later that boy-thing isn't a symbiotic creature is even weaker. In the majority of boy-things appearances he is fixed to a person. In the few cases he isn't, it is to demonstrate Blades connection to him (when he goes off to try and fight cosmic ghost rider, and that serves as Blade's motivation for entering into the fight).

We have seen the venom symbiote bind to other people, and currently isn't bound to Eddie Brock at all. That happens regularly, but it is fairly obvious the character of venom is symbiotic. This is the same case. The vast majority of boy-things appearances are fixed to Blade.

Again the most clear evidence, anytime Blade is seen with all his gear in Avengers tower, boy-thing is also there.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
@trackz ehhh Technically that breathing gun of Blade's is anyway expected to be effective against hellish targets, which CGR falls under, but yes, Blade has gotten upgrades and improvements over the years:

you're right, i'm just saying that it would also do damage to humans. I'll grant that we've only ever seen the bullets chase demons in Aaron's ghost rider run, so we don't know if they'd be able to do that with human targets.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And he's not used BT for around 10 times. He's not even with Blade. So sorry, not standard equipment. This isn't like Batman's gear, because Batman carries a LOT of stuff with him.

Blade doesn't carry BT as standard. As proved by my list of comic issues.

Batman doesn't always use what he carries nor does he always have some of the gear people have argued as standard all the time.
So yes its a lot like batman's stuff, The point is, BT and Blade have been together and used more than once to argue it being standard.. with current.

Originally posted by Trackz
Yea I'm sorry this is just flawed logic and you're intentionally obfuscating. Blade has had boy-thing for every major arc, and in the arcs where he hasn't been shown it's usually explicitly stated why. Your point largely rests on 3 arcs where you're arguing he's not explicitly shown.

We know in one arc, we se that Blade has been using boy-thing predominantly for travel (War of the Realms)

King in Black, and event that is currently on-going, we see evidence in a future story that will detail what Blade and Boy-Thing have been up to.

The only one I will grant is Khonshu in which it isn't explicitly stated, but one event in 2 years is the inconsistency, not the other way around.

Again, you can do the same with Blade and his guns. He has been depicted with boy-thing more consistently than he has fire arms the past few years, but we acknowledge that Blade (a character that has variable gear like Punisher), we based standard on what we tend to see him use. The fact that it has to be explicitly explained where boy-thing is in Blade's appearances means its standard. Again, I'd be happy to bring a mod in on the exact definition of standard, but you're grasping at straws here.

The idea that you peddled later that boy-thing isn't a symbiotic creature is even weaker. In the majority of boy-things appearances he is fixed to a person. In the few cases he isn't, it is to demonstrate Blades connection to him (when he goes off to try and fight cosmic ghost rider, and that serves as Blade's motivation for entering into the fight).

We have seen the venom symbiote bind to other people, and currently isn't bound to Eddie Brock at all. That happens regularly, but it is fairly obvious the character of venom is symbiotic. This is the same case. The vast majority of boy-things appearances are fixed to Blade.

Again the most clear evidence, anytime Blade is seen with all his gear in Avengers tower, boy-thing is also there.

By all means, we can bring mods in for this.

My point is that we can't automatically assume that Blade shows up for a fight with BT - because he isn't even shown bringing him. I am not talking about using BT, but he doesn't even ride on his shoulder.

Your 'evidence' is based on panels with Blade with ALL of his gear - which doesn't = standard.

War of the Realms, Blade did NOT bring BT in the Avengers. I don't know how many times I can say this, lol. Prove that he did - and if you use the scans I posted, lol, it's from #21, which explicitly says the War was OVER.

Ghost Rider in Hell, he did not bring BT with him.

Khonshu arc, no BT.

Phoenix 5 arc, no BT.

Then you are relying on a cover of an unreleased comic. I have listed every issue with every appearance of BT, and you can see for yourself how often BT is used in battle by Blade - hell, how often he is just present on the battlefield.

In short, if I were to pick up a random Avengers comic with Blade in it, chances are I wouldn't see BT fighting alongside him.

Five pages with grown men talking about their boything.

KMC at its absolute best, indeed.

You all disgust me. Or arouse me. I can't decide.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
By all means, we can bring mods in for this.

My point is that we can't automatically assume that Blade shows up for a fight with BT - because he isn't even shown bringing him. I am not talking about using BT, but he doesn't even ride on his shoulder.

Your 'evidence' is based on panels with Blade with ALL of his gear - which doesn't = standard.

[b]War of the Realms, Blade did NOT bring BT in the Avengers. I don't know how many times I can say this, lol. Prove that he did - and if you use the scans I posted, lol, it's from #21, which explicitly says the War was OVER.

Ghost Rider in Hell, he did not bring BT with him.

Khonshu arc, no BT.

Phoenix 5 arc, no BT.

Then you are relying on a cover of an unreleased comic. I have listed every issue with every appearance of BT, and you can see for yourself how often BT is used in battle by Blade - hell, how often he is just present on the battlefield.

In short, if I were to pick up a random Avengers comic with Blade in it, chances are I wouldn't see BT fighting alongside him. [/B]

Again you're conflating "intentionally chose not to bring" with "does not regularly have".

If Blade intentionally chooses not to use something that doesn't mean it's not standard equipment. Like I said, Blade has used guns a handful of times with the Avengers. In a number of issues they can't be seen on his person, but Blade uses them consistently enough for us to acknowledge them as a part of his standard equipment.

I'm not relying on the cover of an unreleased comic, it's just a ridiculous point to conclusively say "Blade doesn't have boy-thing in this event and there's no explanation" in an on-going event, and in future advertisements for said event he's clearly displayed with that very thing you're saying he inexplicably doesn't have. It's a weak point.

Re: War of realms, the relevance there is we see how Blade has been traveling on missions in war of the realms. That issue is still a part of the general war of the realms tie-ins as an epilogue, again this is intentional. It shows us how boy-thing had been utilized, in that Blade doesn't just use him for combat, he also uses him for travel.

If Blade decides not to use a gun, that doesn't mean it is no longer a part of his standard equipment, much in the same way if he doesn't use boy-thing, that doesn't suddenly mean he doesn't have him. In each of these arcs, we see Blade make intentional decisions about what to do with boy-thing ahead of a mission. We see when he heads out on missions, he brings boy-thing. Like lets really analyze what goes on in these situations.

In standard patrol situations, we see that he uses boy-thing for travel. When he is getting ready to leave the mansion, he's traveling with boy-thing. AKA If Blade is traveling independently, he is carrying boy-thing. If this is a random encounter he likely has boy-thing.

The situations in which he doesn't have boy-thing we see are clear *decisions* in which he decides to not take him. Once again, if Punsher or Deadpool decide not to bring grenades on certain missions, that doesn't suddenly omit them from standard gear because we clearly see that depicted with them enough times to acknowledge that in a random encounter they'll be present.

Phoenix 5 arc, he has boy-thing watching the star-brand. In Ghost Rider arc, he leaves boy-thing to recover after he was blasted by Cosmic Ghost Rider.

The issues you're trying to get at don't consider the unique nuance of a symbiote-type character. Boy-thing is not an actual piece of equipment, he is a symbiotic creature that has bonded with Blade and we've seen Blade make intentional decisions about how to best make use of him from arc to arc. But they have been pretty consistent in displaying their relationship.

Originally posted by Trackz
Again you're conflating "intentionally chose not to bring" with "does not regularly have".

If Blade intentionally chooses not to use something that doesn't mean it's not standard equipment. Like I said, Blade has used guns a handful of times with the Avengers. In a number of issues they can't be seen on his person, but Blade uses them consistently enough for us to acknowledge them as a part of his standard equipment.

I'm not relying on the cover of an unreleased comic, it's just a ridiculous point to conclusively say "Blade doesn't have boy-thing in this event and there's no explanation" in an on-going event, and in future advertisements for said event he's clearly displayed with that very thing you're saying he inexplicably doesn't have. It's a weak point.

Re: War of realms, the relevance there is we see how Blade has been traveling on missions in war of the realms. That issue is still a part of the general war of the realms tie-ins, again this is intentional. It shows us how boy-thing had been utilized, in that Blade doesn't just use him for combat, he also uses him for travel.

Blade did not use BT during issues 18-20, the War of the Realms event itself. Issue #21 is explciitly the day AFTER the War of the Realms.

War of the Realms: Strikeforce, a Blade heavy War of the REalms tie-in - doesn't have BT:

If Blade decides not to use a gun, that doesn't mean it is no longer a part of his standard equipment, much in the same way if he doesn't use boy-thing, that doesn't suddenly mean he doesn't have him. In each of these arcs, we see Blade make intentional decisions about what to do with boy-thing ahead of a mission. We see when he heads out on missions, he brings boy-thing. Like lets really analyze what goes on in these situations.

In standard patrol situations, we see that he uses boy-thing for travel. When he is getting ready to leave the mansion, he's traveling with boy-thing. AKA If Blade is traveling independently, he is carrying boy-thing. If this is a random encounter he likely has boy-thing.

The situations in which he doesn't have boy-thing we see are clear *decisions* in which he decides to not take him. Once again, if Punsher or Deadpool decide not to bring grenades on certain missions, that doesn't suddenly omit them from standard gear because we clearly see that depicted with them enough times to acknowledge that in a random encounter they'll be present.

Phoenix 5 arc, he has boy-thing watching the star-brand. In Ghost Rider arc, he leaves boy-thing to recover after he was blasted by Cosmic Ghost Rider.

The issues you're trying to get at don't consider the unique nuance of a symbiote-type character. Boy-thing is not an actual piece of equipment, he is a symbiotic creature that has bonded with Blade and we've seen Blade make intentional decisions about how to best make use of him from arc to arc. But they have been pretty consistent in displaying their relationship.

False point on the decision making, btw. The best displays of this bond - when they fought Surfer/Glads/Firelord (really, the only time they've actually fought together like this) it was BT's decision, not Blade's.