Originally posted by Trackz
"what I'm peddling" what is this? so Batman has never taken off his belt before? throughout the avengers run Blade is regularly shown with boy-thing and they've developed a symbiotic relationship. When boy-thing gets left behind, it's for his own protection at times but he is regularly with Blade on missions.re: batman also fighting heralds, the difference is that is not at all expected. we know boy-thing has the strength of a planet and that his blades cut can cut through anything. the blades were melting through ironman armor on contact. like I said, ordinarily this would be a fight, blade right now is just on another level.
planetary strength, armor that's resistant to blows from herald level beings, weaponry that can put down ghost rider/thor level beings. this is all standard equipment with no prep.
Oh wow. You're using a cover image, from a comic that will only be released in April as your proof....oh dear.
But at least your *ahem* proof shows what Blade looks like when he bring Boy-Thing with him - he rides on his shoulder.
Unlike, say, when they faced Khonshu's forces:
Or during War of the Realms....
Two big events, no Boy-Thing. Add to that the current storyline, and that's quite a few events where Boy-Thing is not 'standard'. Blade only joined in Avengers #10, we're currently on #42, and already I've shown three major multi-issue events where Boy-Thing wasn't shown.
Here's another - the King in Black attacks. Boy Thing?
Didn't bring him when he went to deal with Drac, either:
Hardly 'standard equipment'. Besides, does that mean Robin/Oracle etc are 'standard equipment' for Batman? No. Batman doesn't get a Boy Thing, neither does Blade.
As for the breathing gun?
https://i.postimg.cc/Z5MJ8dW0/RCO006-1566988328.jpg
Great against demons. No word on how it affects humans. But that is by-the-by.
Originally posted by Trackz
And Batman knows this how without prep?Blade is literally the only vampire with this weakness as far as we know. Beyond that, the boy-thing armor only happened because he needed protection from red sunlight, so I'm not sure why that would be relevant at all in this fight.
It's not, I was pointing out to leo that if ALL equipment was allowed, then Batman brings ALL his toys onto the field. Check the post I was replying to.
Which means:
https://imgur.com/a/tzIEA
The Justice Buster. Which had dozens of red suns in each fist.
But again, check the post I was quoting. We're not bringing EVERYTHING to the table - no Justice Buster, no Platinum Kryptonite, no Boy Thing.
Originally posted by Trackz
the breathing gun was gifted by hellstrom. it is an insta-kill for demonic beings, but on its own the bullets literally chase enemies.boy-thing gives him planetary strength (only way he's able to cross blades with silver surfer) and swords that can cut through anything and melt it on contact.
at his base, we've seen Blade briefly put down Thor powered by the spirit of vengeance, a berzerk Ghost Rider, and get the better of Deadpool and stalemate Wolverine (and make short work of a vampire Wolverine).
Like I said, ordinarily this would be a match, Avenger Blade is on a different level, which is the only reason we're even arguing about "is this standard or not" even after it's been shown repeatedly.
Repeatedly? Show me several times where the breathing gun is used. Bonus for my scan above - Blade tells Boy-Thing to go somewhere safe.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh wow. You're using a cover image, from a comic that will only be released in April as your proof....oh dear.But at least your *ahem* proof shows what Blade looks like when he bring Boy-Thing with him - he rides on his shoulder.
Unlike, say, when they faced Khonshu's forces:
Or during War of the Realms....
Two big events, no Boy-Thing. Add to that the current storyline, and that's quite a few events where Boy-Thing is not 'standard'. Blade only joined in Avengers #10, we're currently on #42, and already I've shown three major multi-issue events where Boy-Thing wasn't shown.
Here's another - the King in Black attacks. Boy Thing?
Didn't bring him when he went to deal with Drac, either:
Hardly 'standard equipment'. Besides, does that mean Robin/Oracle etc are 'standard equipment' for Batman? No. Batman doesn't get a Boy Thing, neither does Blade.
As for the breathing gun?
https://i.postimg.cc/Z5MJ8dW0/RCO006-1566988328.jpgGreat against demons. No word on how it affects humans. But that is by-the-by.
It's not, I was pointing out to leo that if ALL equipment was allowed, then Batman brings ALL his toys onto the field. Check the post I was replying to.
Which means:
https://imgur.com/a/tzIEAThe Justice Buster. Which had dozens of red suns in each fist.
But again, check the post I was quoting. We're not bringing EVERYTHING to the table - no Justice Buster, no Platinum Kryptonite, no Boy Thing.
Repeatedly? Show me several times where the breathing gun is used. Bonus for my scan above - Blade tells Boy-Thing to go somewhere safe.
So since your argument seems to hinge on making it so boy-thing isn't standard gear, I'm assuming that you're conceding that once it is proven that boy-thing is standard gear in the avengers the fight is over?
Again, like I said Batman with prep is a different question so the bulk of your response is irrelevant as you're throwing out a bunch of different items that you're admitting aren't standard gear.
Also as a quick note, the breathing gun wasn't invented in that avengers story. they've been a part of Jason Aaron's stories previously. The bullets are little demons that chase and kill their target. Much in the same way silver bullets are especially effective against vampires doesn't mean they aren't effective against humans, the breathing gun is still deadly against anything.
Originally posted by abhilegendI don't think there are multiple breathing guns. He described the breathing gun as one of the arch weapons of hell. the breathing gun as it was originally described wasn't just a type of gun that exists, it's a unique weapon like the ebony blade or excalibur or whichever.
That's not the normal breathing gun blade uses , Daimon Hellstrom gave a new gun to Blade for that arc only IIRC.
Originally posted by Trackz
So since your argument seems to hinge on making it so boy-thing isn't standard gear, I'm assuming that you're conceding that once it is proven that boy-thing is standard gear in the avengers the fight is over?Again, like I said Batman with prep is a different question so the bulk of your response is irrelevant as you're throwing out a bunch of different items that you're admitting aren't standard gear.
I've already proven that it's not standard gear. He didn't bring Boy Thing with him to fight Khonshu's worshippers, he didn't bring him to fight in the War of the Realms, he didn't bring him to the Ukraine with Drac, once back in NYC he didn't bring him to fight symbiotes, and in the latest Phoenix storyline he was left behind to babysit. Even when Cosmic GR came he told Boy Thing to go hide somewhere safe.
He's a separate character, like Robin or Alfred or Oracle. I can post dozens of scans showing Batman using those three in his fights and using them on standard patrols, but they're not considered standard gear. I know Blade took him after the War of the Realms to fight vamps, but that doesn't make him standard gear.
Moreover, forum rules clearly state that no amps for standard characters are used.
The converse of all of this, of course, seems to be without Boy Thing, you admit Blade loses.
With him? Blade has a shot, I agree. But Bats can still win.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I've already proven that it's not standard gear. He didn't bring Boy Thing with him to fight Khonshu's worshippers, he didn't bring him to fight in the War of the Realms, he didn't bring him to the Ukraine with Drac, once back in NYC he didn't bring him to fight symbiotes, and in the latest Phoenix storyline he was left behind to babysit. Even when Cosmic GR came he told Boy Thing to go hide somewhere safe.He's a separate character, like Robin or Alfred or Oracle. I can post dozens of scans showing Batman using those three in his fights and using them on standard patrols, but they're not considered standard gear. I know Blade took him after the War of the Realms to fight vamps, but that doesn't make him standard gear.
Moreover, forum rules clearly state that no amps for standard characters are used.
The converse of all of this, of course, seems to be [b]without Boy Thing, you admit Blade loses
.With him? Blade has a shot, I agree. But Bats can still win. [/B]
No you didn't prove anything actually. Several faulty part to your argument too.
1. The only arc where we don't see boy-thing is the Khonshu arc. We see in a War of the Realms post-issue that Blade has been using boy-thing to travel for his missions during and post war of the realms.
2. We see in the Avengers issue focusing on Blade's vantage point of King in Black, that he does indeed have Boy-thing with him
3. In all scenes in which Blade is depicted with all his gear (all his swords and guns) boy-thing is also depicted.
There are a few times in which boy-thing is explicitly stated to not be with Blade for a given reason, but again we've seen Blade with boy-thing in the majority of his previous arcs.
1. Vampire war
2. War of the realms
3. Ghost rider
4. Starbrand
5. King in Black
There is one arc in which it's explicitly explained why Blade isn't carrying him, and another in which it is unexplained (Khonshu). For hte last few years though, Blade has been depicted with Boy-thing more than he's been depicted with his guns, which everyone would grant are standard equipment. Consistent depiction over the course of several years would represent standard equipment. Beyond that, the Standard Equipment rules on this website dictate that standard equipment affords them access to equipment they would ordinarily have access to in a fight in a given location.So even if there are issues where Blade elects to leave boy-thing at the Avengers base, that would still fall into standard equipment.
From the rules
the contestants in whose city/reality the fight takes place are allowed access to any material resources they usually have there or of any team they're active members of, as long as they can reasonably get to them.
So not only is Blade usually depicted with Boy-thing unless otherwise explained, he has reasonable access to boy-thing given that the Avengers base is capable of teleportation.
Your other point is the weakest. No boy-thing isn't an autonomous character like Robin. That would be arguing like anyone having a vs. against Venom would only be fighting the symbiote and not the host. In the few times boy-thing was shown to act independently, it was only to depict the connect Blade had to him. Since becoming a character, boy-thing has been depicted as a symbiotic type character.
You'd have an argument if robin literally rode on batman's shoulders for most of his appearances. That's not the case. A sidekick is not the same thing as a symbiotic type character.
boy-thing is also not an amp. an amp would be Blade reading from the darkhold, something that he's only done once. An upgrade that has been depicted over several years isn't an amp, it's standard. That would be like arguing that Jane Fosters powers as Valkyrie should be considered an amp.
The last part is ridiculous. Batman has no shot with Blade if given standard equipment. He's faster, stronger, more durable, and literally requires one-hit to win unless you think Batman is surviving a blade capable of burning him from the inside out.
Wait, where (point 2) do we see Blade with BT during KiB? Are you still using the cover of an unreleased comic?
War of the Realms, DURING it, he's not using BT. Post, sure, when he went to fight the vamps, but not during (as I said).
You then neglected to mention the current Phoenix arc.
So that's....Vamp war, GR (where he tells BT not to join in), and Starbrand.
So that's....2 story arcs, whereas I showed.....3 arcs where he's not shown at all,a Nd 1 where he explicitly doesn't use him.
That's hardly standard equipment, lol, and even if you can show him during KiB as of now (Feb 2021), and him using BT during War of the Realms, the fact that he doesn't explicitly have it during even ONE storyline shows its not standard.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait, where (point 2) do we see Blade with BT during KiB? Are you still using the cover of an unreleased comic?War of the Realms, DURING it, he's not using BT. Post, sure, when he went to fight the vamps, but not during (as I said).
You then neglected to mention the current Phoenix arc.
So that's....Vamp war, GR (where he tells BT not to join in), and Starbrand.
So that's....2 story arcs, whereas I showed.....3 arcs where he's not shown at all,a Nd 1 where he explicitly doesn't use him.
That's hardly standard equipment, lol, and even if you can show him during KiB as of now (Feb 2021), and him using BT during War of the Realms, the fact that he doesn't explicitly have it during even ONE storyline shows its not standard.
Yes we're discussing the cover of an unreleased comic for an event that is on-going if you're claiming that he conclusively does not have boy-thing during the event, especially given that the artist of said event has admitted he made a number of mistakes since he did not check on the current state of characters before drawing them (e.g. depicting Cable as an adult). It dismissed your position that he does not have boy-thing when the sole story we have from Blade's vantage point is advertised as having him with boy-thing. If you don't want to accept that, fine but then it also dismissed all of King in Black as an example.
Re; War of the Realms, like I've stated they narratively explain when and where boy-thing is. The issue was still during War of Realms (she-hulk is literally actively covered in Giant blood) and we see that Blade has been using boy-thing to travel for his solo mission.
In the current phoenix arc is is explicitly stated why boy-thing isn't with him. I didn't neglect it. If the issue has to narratively explain why boy-thing isn't why, it's because they're recognizing that he is usually with Blade.
the fact that he doesn't explicitly have it during even ONE storyline shows its not standard.
This is terrible logic, especially for a character like Blade. There are issues where he explicitly doesn't have his trench coat. Does that mean it's not standard equipment. He hasn't been regularly holding or wielding guns, is that suddenly not standard equipment. That's why standard equipment is about consistency. Your argument that you can point out a single inconsistency doesn't mean it's not consistent.
As noted, there is a single arc in which is isn't explained where boy-thing is. 1. Blade has been on the Avengers for 2 years now. When depicted in the avengers in other books like ant-man, boy-thing is shown with him.
This isn't a good argument.
Originally posted by Trackz
Yes we're discussing the cover of an unreleased comic for an event that is on-going if you're claiming that he conclusively does not have boy-thing during the event, especially given that the artist of said event has admitted he made a number of mistakes since he did not check on the current state of characters before drawing them (e.g. depicting Cable as an adult). It dismissed your position that he does not have boy-thing when the sole story we have from Blade's vantage point is advertised as having him with boy-thing. If you don't want to accept that, fine but then it also dismissed all of King in Black as an example.Re; War of the Realms, like I've stated they narratively explain when and where boy-thing is. The issue was still during War of Realms (she-hulk is literally actively covered in Giant blood) and we see that Blade has been using boy-thing to travel for his solo mission.
In the current phoenix arc is is explicitly stated why boy-thing isn't with him. I didn't neglect it. If the issue has to narratively explain why boy-thing isn't why, it's because they're recognizing that he is usually with Blade.
This is terrible logic, especially for a character like Blade. There are issues where he explicitly doesn't have his trench coat. Does that mean it's not standard equipment. He hasn't been regularly holding or wielding guns, is that suddenly not standard equipment. That's why standard equipment is about consistency. Your argument that you can point out a single inconsistency doesn't mean it's not consistent.
As noted, there is a single arc in which is isn't explained where boy-thing is. 1. Blade has been on the Avengers for 2 years now. When depicted in the avengers in other books like ant-man, boy-thing is shown with him.
This isn't a good argument.
Blade joined in Avengers #10. We are now on #42. Not all of those issues 10-42 had Blade, sometimes not even the current Avengers. BT only appeared in issue #17.
You had to rely on a cover, when we all know comic covers aren't always the best guide to their contents.
Of the issues so far (Feb 2021, also when THIS thread was made) with KiB, Blade does NOT have BT with him. I have posted the scans - artists can say whatever they like, we don't care. We go by what is on panel. And on panel, so far for KiB, BT is not there.
War of the Realms did NOT have BT on Blade's shoulder - I posted the scans. AFTER it was all done, when Shulk is literally clean up crew -THEN BT was being used:
But DURING the event?
BT appears in Avengers #17.
#18, War of the Realms. No BT
#19 - Blade is shown fighting, no BT
#20 - Blade is shown fighting, no BT
#21 - The scans above-Blade is shown with BT going off to fight vamps. War of the Realms is EXPLICITLY over. Blade fights using BT
#22 - Blade is with BT as they stand around talking
#23 - Cosmic GR attacks, Blade sends BT away when fighting starts No BT fighting with Blade.
#24 - Blade fights with the breathing gun (first time); no BT
#25 - Blade is fighting in Hell, no BT
#26 - flashback, no Blade
#27 - Blade walking around and talking, no BT(except when he gives a rose to Black Widow). Fast forward to a few weeks later, then they are in GR's car.
#28 - they're in GR's car, Blade is dying
#29 - The surfer feat (BT's idea, not Blade's) Blade fights using BT
#30 - Gladiator feat Blade fights using BT
#31 - No Blade, only Stark
#32 - Blade is about to leave with BT, gets talked back by Widow
#32-37 - Blade fights; no BT this is the Khonshu arc
#38 - Blade is shown, no BT
#39 - Flashback
#40 - Blade fights when Namor attacks; no BT
#41 - no Blade
#42 - It's shown BT is babysitting. no BT fighting with Blade.
That's.....pretty bad for supposed 'standard' equipment. I am NOT saying that just because he doesn't whip it out that we automatically assume BT isn't there - I am saying BT isn't even shown. We have entire arcs and issues where BT isn't even mentioned. Blade has multiple fights in multiple issues without BT - and BT has only been around for 25 ish issues. Of those 25, Blade appears in around 18 issues. Of those 18, he is shown fighting in 13 issues. Of those, Blade only fights with BT in 2, with a 3 instance off-panel (with the vamps). And that was in one single arc, the Starbrand arc.
That's it.
Thus, he isn't standard equipment.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Blade joined in Avengers #10. We are now on #42. Not all of those issues 10-42 had Blade, sometimes not even the current Avengers. BT only appeared in issue #17.You had to rely on a cover, when we all know comic covers aren't always the best guide to their contents.
Of the issues so far (Feb 2021, also when THIS thread was made) with KiB, Blade does NOT have BT with him. I have posted the scans - artists can say whatever they like, [b]we don't care
. We go by what is on panel. And on panel, so far for KiB, BT is not there.War of the Realms did NOT have BT on Blade's shoulder - I posted the scans. AFTER it was all done, when Shulk is literally clean up crew -THEN BT was being used:
But DURING the event?
BT appears in Avengers #17.
#18, War of the Realms. No BT
#19 - Blade is shown fighting, no BT
#20 - Blade is shown fighting, no BT
#21 - The scans above-Blade is shown with BT going off to fight vamps. War of the Realms is EXPLICITLY over. Blade fights using BT
#22 - Blade is with BT as they stand around talking
#23 - Cosmic GR attacks, Blade sends BT away when fighting starts No BT fighting with Blade.
#24 - Blade fights with the breathing gun (first time); no BT
#25 - Blade is fighting in Hell, no BT
#26 - flashback, no Blade
#27 - Blade walking around and talking, no BT(except when he gives a rose to Black Widow). Fast forward to a few weeks later, then they are in GR's car.
#28 - they're in GR's car, Blade is dying
#29 - The surfer feat (BT's idea, not Blade's) Blade fights using BT
#30 - Gladiator feat Blade fights using BT
#31 - No Blade, only Stark
#32 - Blade is about to leave with BT, gets talked back by Widow
#32-37 - Blade fights; no BT this is the Khonshu arc
#38 - Blade is shown, no BT
#39 - Flashback
#40 - Blade fights when Namor attacks; no BT
#41 - no Blade
#42 - It's shown BT is babysitting. no BT fighting with Blade.That's.....pretty bad for supposed 'standard' equipment. I am NOT saying that just because he doesn't whip it out that we automatically assume BT isn't there - I am saying BT isn't even shown. We have entire arcs and issues where BT isn't even mentioned. Blade has multiple fights in multiple issues without BT - and BT has only been around for 25 ish issues. Of those 25, Blade appears in around 18 issues. Of those 18, he is shown fighting in 13 issues. Of those, Blade only fights with BT in 2, with a 3 instance off-panel (with the vamps). And that was in one single arc, the Starbrand arc.
That's it.
Thus, he isn't standard equipment. [/B]
Why not? Though its fairly new It's STILL his gear he is currently using and has used since last year. Do you see Batman using the shock gloves always, etc? Boy thing is just there like think of A symbiote that chooses not to merge always.
