The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

Originally posted by -Pr-
I like Zemo, and I like the general attitude of the show, but I have two things that annoy me:

-I've always liked the idea that Cap was the only one the serum worked perfectly on. I feel like it cheapens him a bit if they start saying that some guy in a lab actually did a better job than Erskine, and now all these super soldiers are running around with a better serum than Steve's.

-Walker is too competent with the shield for me. Unless it comes out that he's also a super soldier later on, it's gonna continue to bother me.

Well, they did mention that the scientist in question was the only guy who was capable of doing so, despite there being numerous attempts over the decades. After 70+ years of attempts, it's not outside the realms of possibility that some uber genius geneticist would be able to figure it out. So, in that regard, it's not a stretch IMO. But yeah, the whole idea of it somehow actually being a better serum is kinda stupid.

As to Walker, I highly doubt he's a Super Soldier. Once he lost the shield during the truck fight, Karli overpowered him laughably easily. But they did mention that he's "off the charts" for a regular human, both physically and mentally. So, he's probably really good at calculating angles and things on the fly when it comes to using the shield. And based on some of the trailer footage, it doesn't take Sam that long to learn how to do multiple ricochet throws with the shield as well.

Not going to lie though. It does detract a bit from Steve's feats from the films, as it makes it seem like using the shield effectively isn't actually that difficult if two skilled but otherwise unenhanced humans can quickly learn to do so.

On an unrelated note, Zemo's club dance moves are already a meme online lol.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I like Zemo, and I like the general attitude of the show, but I have two things that annoy me:

-I've always liked the idea that Cap was the only one the serum worked perfectly on. I feel like it cheapens him a bit if they start saying that some guy in a lab actually did a better job than Erskine, and now all these super soldiers are running around with a better serum than Steve's.

-Walker is too competent with the shield for me. Unless it comes out that he's also a super soldier later on, it's gonna continue to bother me.

It was pointed out in the 2nd ep that Walker is an exceptionally gifted normal human, both physically and mentally.

They're kinda touching back on how Cap was originally written in the 40's, not superhuman, just peak human in every physical category.

The latest episode was pretty intense.

Spoiler:
That shot of Walker with the bloodied shield at the end. Damn. And he seems to be extra potent, even for a Super Soldier.

Also, the

Spoiler:
Dora Milaje are badass.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The latest episode was pretty intense.

Spoiler:
That shot of Walker with the bloodied shield at the end. Damn. And he seems to be extra potent, even for a Super Soldier.

Also, the

Spoiler:
Dora Milaje are badass.

Spoiler:
What makes you think he's extra potent?

Man Bucky has really ****ing fallen lmao

I think he did better in this episode. He clearly wasn't trying to hurt the Dora Milaje and he considers them friends, comrades in arms. They on the other hand will say "f*ck you* to anyone who stops them from what they want so they were going all out. And he didn't even know about his arm.

Against the Super Soldier, he took him out almost immediately. He's only ever really had trouble when he's fighting multiple opponents who are every bit as powerful as him, so that's not really a knock. It looks bad if you don't pay attention to the context.

Originally posted by Mindset

Spoiler:
What makes you think he's extra potent?

I wouldn't say he's extra potent imo. I think that's the "Power Ranger" effect. It's his first showing with the juice so they make him look extra flashy. Also he's in pure rage mode so he'd be giving it more effort than anyone else in the room. The guy he took down was so scared he wasn't even trying to fight back.

Also yes, Walker with the shield made me actually pause and think back and I realized...we've never seen the shield bloody before. Like ever. And it really does defy physics since it can easily smash through concrete and slice through metal, but doesn't ever cut people.

Cap's shield is becoming the new Anakin's lightsaber. 👆

Originally posted by KingD19
I wouldn't say he's extra potent imo. I think that's the "Power Ranger" effect. It's his first showing with the juice so they make him look extra flashy. Also he's in pure rage mode so he'd be giving it more effort than anyone else in the room. The guy he took down was so scared he wasn't even trying to fight back.

Also yes, Walker with the shield made me actually pause and think back and I realized...we've never seen the shield bloody before. Like ever. And it really does defy physics since it can easily smash through concrete and slice through metal, but doesn't ever cut people.

Honestly, Bucky, Flacon, and him looked about the same.

He was fighting two for a bit, but the shield is a huge advantage.

I have noticed they've been playing down Bucky's arm advantage in the series.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, but he didn't look better than Bucky.

Honestly, Bucky, Flacon, and him looked about the same.

He was fighting two for a bit, but the shield is a huge advantage.

I have noticed they've been playing down Bucky's arm advantage in the series.

True, he didn't look better than Bucky. If anything Walker going unhinged shows that the Flag Smashers are all just scared kids with no real training so when they fight a soldier who is on their level and not just trying to put them down, but trying to hurt/kill them, they see what they're really getting into. So the fact that he's Spec Ops + Super Soldier and means business puts him on a slightly higher level than them.

I actually don't know precisely when he took the serum, because we didn't see the "veins on fire" reaction Karli talked about so I assume it was offscreen and he just pretended to be normal until Battlestar got crunched.

The shield is absolutely an advantage, and as much as I hate Walker, he knows how to use it.

I think Bucky's arm is seeing less use because we know just how much damage the inferior one did, so imagine if he punched anyone he fought full force with Wakanda model? An arm that can survive a 200 foot fall through trees without even a scratch? He'd kill someone in a heartbeat, and that's not how he rolls anymore. He's Bucky Barnes, not the Winter Soldier, so he holds back. He's not going for the kill shots. He's going easy on people if he can.

Also I really dig Falcon's fighting style. Not only is he good enough to fight people like Batroc and the Dora Milaje. His maneuverability and versatility with the wings and jetpack are insane. And he apparently still hasn't repaired Redwing, hopefully sans government trackers.

derek kolstad certainly did his research regarding john walker.. i liked this episode.. besides john is also a damn hot head, he should've let sam talk carli down. i can definitely see her join the thunderbolts.

Originally posted by Mindset

Spoiler:
What makes you think he's extra potent?

Spoiler:
His feats looked flashier compared to all the other Super Soldiers in the episode, which is why he seemed more potent. At least to me. Not saying he necessarily is. Just that he looked that way to me on his first outing. But then I suppose it could have just been a style choice by the directors and writers to highlight the jump between his pre-Serum abilities and his Super Soldier abilities.

Originally posted by KingD19
I think he did better in this episode. He clearly wasn't trying to hurt the Dora Milaje and he considers them friends, comrades in arms. They on the other hand will say "f*ck you* to anyone who stops them from what they want so they were going all out. And he didn't even know about his arm.

Against the Super Soldier, he took him out almost immediately. He's only ever really had trouble when he's fighting multiple opponents who are every bit as powerful as him, so that's not really a knock. It looks bad if you don't pay attention to the context.

Bucky was amusing in that last fight.

Spoiler:
Kicks a dude through a wall. "Stay there." And when he punches that guy attacking Falcon off the screen he's just like, "You're welcome."

And yeah, he clearly wasn't serious against the

Spoiler:
Dora Milaje. He was even like, "Can we talk about this?" And, as you mentioned, he didn't know that arm thing could happen.

It does show that

Spoiler:
the Flash Smashers are actually kind of weak though. I mean, yeah, physically they're super strong, tough and fast, but if they encounter anyone on their physical level who actually has skill and know what they're up against they get absolutely fodderised. Walker, Bucky and even Sam were beating them up pretty easily.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Bucky was amusing in that last fight.

Spoiler:
Kicks a dude through a wall. "Stay there." And when he punches that guy attacking Falcon off the screen he's just like, "You're welcome."

And yeah, he clearly wasn't serious against the

Spoiler:
Dora Milaje. He was even like, "Can we talk about this?" And, as you mentioned, he didn't know that arm thing could happen.

It does show that

Spoiler:
the Flash Smashers are actually kind of weak though. I mean, yeah, physically they're super strong, tough and fast, but if they encounter anyone on their physical level who actually has skill and know what they're up against they get absolutely fodderised. Walker, Bucky and even Sam were beating them up pretty easily.

Yeah, Bucky is a guy who's been through it all. He didn't have time for their amateur hour BS.

Indeed. He was talking to Ayo, and being 100% reactionary and defensive. He didn't attack a single Dora Milaje, only made sure he, Walker, and Sam didn't get stabbed up. And then, the arm. He was just like, "The hell is this? This is a thing that can happen?" Even Sam went, "Did you know they could do that?" And Bucky clearly didn't. I think he also might feel a bit hurt at that, that they didn't trust him enough to put a failsafe into the arm they gifted him . Even though they knew Winter Soldier wasn't him, and he didn't kill T'Chaka.

As for the Flag Smashers, that's true, and my reasoning is that they're all a bunch of orphans who aren't trained for this. They're not soldiers, they're not elite fighters. They're normal kids who got lucky enough to get the find of a lifetime. But just because you can lift up a truck, doesn't mean you figured out how to throw a punch.

I also like how Sam isn't enhanced himself but has become an expert at utilising the thrusters on his suit to augment his strikes and kicks to almost Super Soldier-like levels as well as enhance his agility even when he isn't in full flight mode. He's become really skilled at using that wing pack of his.

Also, who else thinks that

Spoiler:
Sharon might actually be the Power Broker?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Also, who else thinks that

Spoiler:
Sharon might actually be the Power Broker?

I've thought that several times.

And watching Sam jet kick someone or rocket boost their face into a wall is awesome.

Enjoying the series so far. Started slow but picking up fast.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Also, who else thinks that

Spoiler:
Sharon might actually be the Power Broker?

This is what I thought pretty quickly in the episode where she showed up. But still some things don't add up about that theory.

Originally posted by Inhuman
This is what I thought pretty quickly in the episode where she showed up. But still some things don't add up about that theory.

I feel like

Spoiler:
she wasn't necessarily the original, but took them out and assumed their mantle during the time she's been rogue. I mean considering how the Power Broker operates in the shadows, how many people who aren't in with them even know what they look like? The anonymity of being a shadow player is a bit of a double-edged sword.

Might also be a Red Herring though.