This is just an attempt at you wanting to pick and choose, because of many later additions, changes and retcons to the role and power and Marvel cosmic hierarchy, but the OP wrote a specific version/era here.
What's her biggest feat when she was Dark Phoenix, does it compare to consuming the omniverse and destroying everything, even everything that exists outside of time and space?
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Based on what? What did she do to support that statement? She was consuming the dimensions that make up the DC universe.I hope thats not it or she stands no chance against the best Phoenix hosts and would get absolutely annihilated by the Phoenix Force itself 😕
Just the last vestige of Wizard's power was compared to the big bang itself and disrupted the fabric of entire omniverse.
Originally posted by Juntai
This is just an attempt at you wanting to pick and choose, because of many later additions, changes and retcons to the role and power and Marvel cosmic hierarchy, but the OP wrote a specific version/era here.What's her biggest feat when she was Dark Phoenix, does it compare to consuming the omniverse and destroying everything, even everything that exists outside of time and space?
No. The OP simply said Dark Phoenix Jean. Not Jean in Uncanny X-men issue x to y. Jean has gone Dark Phoenix multiple times within comics and its canon that Dark Phoenix is just a state of mind.
Whats Unkindness Ravens biggest feat beyond:
Collaboratively destroying dimensions with her minions off panel (thereby making her contribution unquantifiable, making how she achieved this unknown and also leaving it unknown how difficult or easy this was for her)
watching her minions take out Superman Prime
Watching her minions take out the Quintessence before finally getting her hands dirty and killing the Wizard?
😬
There was angels, gods, demons, Spectre, Stranger, The Wizard and even 5d imps in there hiding from her because she already devoured their realms or destroyed their universes and there was nowhere she hadn’t devoured. lol.
Imagine the power required to run in and conquer and devour a realm full of 5D Imps. lol.
Unimaginably beyond anything Jean did as Dark Phoenix.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Just the last vestige of Wizard's power was compared to the big bang itself and disrupted the fabric of entire omniverse.
It wasnt compared to the Big Bang. The comic says "as in the beginning there was the word..and now the last of an ancient wizards power, wrapped up in that word, sends Teth Adam hurtling through the multiverse."
The word theyre talking about is "Shazam" as shown in your scan.
Its simply saying just like how the word Shazam was the start of a new beginning for Teth Adam (making him Black Adam), the same word is the beginning of a new journey for him.
Or are you asserting that the word Shazam started the DC universe? lol
Here, the word Shazam set Teth on a new journey, as it sent him back through time with Adams journey through the timestream disrupting the fabric of reality. Cool. 😕 👆
Originally posted by Juntai
There was angels, gods, demons, Spectre, Stranger, The Wizard and even 5d imps in there hiding from her because she already devoured their realms or destroyed their universes and there was nowhere she hadn’t devoured. lol.Imagine the power required to run in and conquer and devour a realm full of 5D Imps. lol.
Unimaginably beyond anything Jean did as Dark Phoenix.
The problem is it was off panel and it was a collaborative feat with her dozen minions. A big bad who is dependent on the power of others and for the most part lets her minions do the lionshare of the work whilst she watches and then takes on the leftover scraps.
Thats the crux of the matter. We cant give her a pass for inferred power as you seem to want to do. We go by on panel feats and the circumstances behind hers leaves the biggest one (destroying dimensions) unverifiable and unquantifiable.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It wasnt compared to the Big Bang. The comic says "as in the beginning there was the word..and now the last of an ancient wizards power, wrapped up in [B]that word, sends Teth Adam hurtling through the multiverse."
In the beginning word means "Let there be light" which created the world as per DC lore.
The word theyre talking about is "Shazam" as shown in your scan.
Its simply saying just like how the word Shazam was the start of a new beginning for Teth Adam (making him Black Adam), the same word is the beginning of a new journey for him.
Or are you asserting that the word Shazam started the DC universe? lol
Here, the word Shazam set Teth on a new journey, as it sent him back through time with Adams journey through the timestream disrupting the fabric of reality. Cool. 😕 👆 [/B]
Amazing how much of an idiot you are lol. It shows just how powerful Wizard was, not that he sent Adam on a journey lmao
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The problem is it was off panel and it was a collaborative feat with her dozen minions. A big bad who is dependent on the power of others and for the most part lets her minions do the lionshare of the work whilst she watches and then takes on the leftover scraps.Thats the crux of the matter. We cant give her a pass for inferred power as you seem to want to do. We go by on panel feats and the circumstances behind hers leaves the biggest one (destroying dimensions) unverifiable and unquantifiable.
😂
Originally posted by abhilegend
In the beginning word means "Let there be light" which created the world as per DC lore.
What you've done is see the phrase "As in the beginning there was the word" and its like your brain shut off after that sentence and youve run off with an interpretation stubbornly clinging on to it ignoring the context given by the comic to explain that sentence 😬
Immediately before the comic says "In the beginning there was the word" the comic shows us what word it was talking about:
"SHAZAM" - That is the word being referred to. That is the word focused on and stated immediately before the sentence in question.
The comic then doubles down on its confirmation of what word it was talking about:
"And now the last of an ancient wizards power wrapped up in THAT word send Teth Adam hurtling through the multiverse."
The comic explains that the word being talked about is one that the Wizards power is wrapped in. What word in DC lore is the Wizards power connected to? 😖hifty:
"SHAZAM" 🙂
As the wizard lays dying, he tells Black Adam to say his name. The name that calls on his power according to DC lore. As Black Adam says "Shazam" he is sent hurtling through the multiverse.
Something your own evidence confirms:
"With his last ounce of strength he guided me here..."
There is zero reference to the Big Bang.
You completely ignored the explicit context given immediately before the scene where the Wizard tells Teth to say the word "Shazam," the context in the scene where it states that the word in question is the one the Wizards power is tied to, which we all know is" Shazam." The same word stated IMMEDIATELY before the scene we're pointlessly debating over 😆
Originally posted by abhilegend
Amazing how much of an idiot you are lol. It shows just how powerful Wizard was, not that he sent Adam on a journey lmao
We debated like 2 yrs ago. Let the grudge go and start afresh and be civil. Theres no need to let this descend into childish name calling. That is a crutch for those who cant debate. Dont be that guy.
Back on topic, you simply misinterpreted. It happens.
You saw the phrase "as in the beginning there was the word" and immediately locked into an interpretation, one that isnt supported in the scene, before the scene or after the scene. What is supported and explicitly confirmed is the word Shazam calls on the Wizards power. The Wizard tells Shazam to say it, he is then sent back through time with scene saying "as in the beginning there was the word....."And now the last of an ancient wizards power wrapped up in THAT word send Teth Adam hurtling through the multiverse."
This is over. 😬
Originally posted by abhilegend
"Devouring every thread of existence is unquantifiable and unverifiable"😂
Youre leaping into debate without taking the time to process whats going on and why things are being said 😬
Unquantifiable and unverifiable because
1) it happened off panel under unknown circumstances
2) it was with the aid of both the Lords of Chaos and the 7 deadly sins
So not only do we not see how she was achieving this destruction, but we also dont know how much she was responsible for vs her minions. She recruited the Lord of Chaos specifically for their capacity for and dedication to destruction:
So as confirmed by Phantom Stranger the Lords of Chaos were an important part of the process.
Im not denying she destroyed most of creation, just saying its circumstances and her contribution are unquantifiable.
Every scene she was in she was bolstered by her minions who consistently lead the charge on everything, from the attack on Superman Prime:
the initial attack on the heroes:
even in the final assault the minions do the lionshare of the work whilst she hangs back and picks off the Wizard:
So with her propensity to act through minions, with her stated recruitment of the Lords of Chaos for their destructive capacity, whats unquantifiable is her contribution to the destruction.
Furthermore its not like she destroyed the multiverse in one blast. She went from dimension to dimension wrecking all creation over time:
Thats a universal power. The M'kraan crystal destroys all realities at once. It was responsible for the destruction of Marvels 6th Cosmos.
An exhausted and battle weary Lady Phoenix/Firehair warped the reality of the entire Marvel multiverse at once in Avengers just in April this year. This was done in collaboration with a Starbrand, yet even if we attribute just half of the effort to that Phoenix host, thats still a greater feat than a slow trawl taking out single dimensions at a time.
Unkindness going from dimension to dimension just highlights the limits of her destructive capacity. Doubly so when it was done in collaboration.
Originally posted by GalacticStormWell that’s a lot of words to be wrong.
What you've done is see the phrase "As in the beginning there was the word" and its like your brain shut off after that sentence and youve run off with an interpretation stubbornly clinging on to it ignoring the context given by the comic to explain that sentence 😬Immediately before the comic says "In the beginning there was the word" the comic shows us what word it was talking about:
"SHAZAM" - That is the word being referred to. That is the word focused on and stated immediately before the sentence in question.
The comic then doubles down on its confirmation of what word it was talking about:
"And now the last of an ancient wizards power wrapped up in [B]THAT
word send Teth Adam hurtling through the multiverse."The comic explains that the word being talked about is one that the Wizards power is wrapped in. What word in DC lore is the Wizards power connected to? 😖hifty:
"SHAZAM" 🙂
As the wizard lays dying, he tells Black Adam to say his name. The name that calls on his power according to DC lore. As Black Adam says "Shazam" he is sent hurtling through the multiverse.
Something your own evidence confirms:
"With his last ounce of strength he guided me here..."
There is zero reference to the Big Bang.
You completely ignored the explicit context given immediately before the scene where the Wizard tells Teth to say the word "Shazam," the context in the scene where it states that the word in question is the one the Wizards power is tied to, which we all know is" Shazam." The same word stated IMMEDIATELY before the scene we're pointlessly debating over 😆
We debated like 2 yrs ago. Let the grudge go and start afresh and be civil. Theres no need to let this descend into childish name calling. That is a crutch for those who cant debate. Dont be that guy.
Back on topic, you simply misinterpreted. It happens.
You saw the phrase "as in the beginning there was the word" and immediately locked into an interpretation, one that isnt supported in the scene, before the scene or after the scene. What is supported and explicitly confirmed is the word Shazam calls on the Wizards power. The Wizard tells Shazam to say it, he is then sent back through time with scene saying "as in the beginning there was the word....."And now the last of an ancient wizards power wrapped up in THAT word send Teth Adam hurtling through the multiverse."
This is over. 😬 [/B]
It’s definitely using the biblical passage here, which is part of DCs creation story. It’s not on accident.
It’s also drawing a parallel, at the beginning there was the word.
And here at the end of all things there was the word(Shazam).
Dont leap on the bandwagon because your own line of argument hit a deadend.
The comic gives context for what word its talking about by the scene immediately before it featuring the Wizards word of power Shazam.
The main scene then told you what word it was talking about by stating "And now the last of an ancient wizards power wrapped up in THAT word"
Which is explicit confirmation that when it said "As in the beginning there was the word" it meant Shazam.
Misinterpreting left, right and centre 😬
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre leaping into debate without taking the time to process whats going on and why things are being said 😬Unquantifiable and unverifiable because
1) it happened off panel under unknown circumstances
2) it was with the aid of both the Lords of Chaos and the 7 deadly sinsSo not only do we not see how she was achieving this destruction, but we also dont know how much she was responsible for vs her minions. She recruited the Lord of Chaos specifically for their capacity for and dedication to destruction:
So as confirmed by Phantom Stranger the Lords of Chaos were an important part of the process.
Im not denying she destroyed most of creation, just saying its circumstances and her contribution are unquantifiable.
Every scene she was in she was bolstered by her minions who consistently lead the charge on everything, from the attack on Superman Prime:
the initial attack on the heroes:
even in the final assault the minions do the lionshare of the work whilst she hangs back and picks off the Wizard:
So with her propensity to act through minions, with her stated recruitment of the Lords of Chaos for their destructive capacity, whats unquantifiable is her contribution to the destruction.
Furthermore its not like she destroyed the multiverse in one blast. She went from dimension to dimension wrecking all creation over time:
Thats a universal power. The M'kraan crystal destroys all realities at once. It was responsible for the destruction of Marvels 6th Cosmos.
An exhausted and battle weary Lady Phoenix/Firehair warped the reality of the entire Marvel multiverse at once in Avengers just in April this year. This was done in collaboration with a Starbrand, yet even if we attribute just half of the effort to that Phoenix host, thats still a greater feat than a slow trawl taking out single dimensions at a time.
Unkindness going from dimension to dimension just highlights the limits of her destructive capacity. Doubly so when it was done in collaboration.
1) Dark Phoenix never did any of that.
2) all these events and absorption are happening at once. This is why right as they enter Fates tower that girls timeline is destroyed, because Unkindness is doing that -and- that. She’s attacking of all hypertime, time and space and all the places outside of time and space all at once. You’re just reading a book in a linear fashion.
3) there’s beings in that tower and in places that she already devoured that can end multiverses instantly, and they were helpless.
Repeating your wrongness doesn’t make you right. It’s not an accident to reference the creation story there. There’s periods and commas to separate the ideas of what it’s talking about.
“As in the beginning, there was the word.” — creation story.
“And now,” — a separation from the previous line by idea, period and timeframe, beginning vs now.
“The last of an ancient wizards power, wrapped up in that word” — referring to him saying Shazam here at the end of all things, with the last magic in creation, in direct line comparison to the original statement.
I can’t believe I have to teach you English here.
1) I was demonstrating examples of top tier, multiversal power to contrast it with Unkindness' universal feats of travelling from place of power to place of power destroying one at a time.
2) You cant assert that as nowhere is that stated or conclusively depicted. It is stated clear as day that the Unkindness was travelling from plane to plane targetting pieces of power, not everything and not all at once. Plane to plane:
What we see is the the girl (Gold Beetle) disappearing with it being surmised that at that time the Unkindness is destroying her timeline. Later Resurrection Man opens a gate to allow the Unkindness into Fates Tower, which Unkindness then utilises. How youve interpreted that as a demonstration of her destroying everything at once when (as i've just shown) its stated explicitly it was single target after single target i really dont know.
3) It was an alternate future reality so you cant make any assertions about the occupants of any of the dimensions or their power levels in comparison to the DC present. Near 900 centuries had past. For example look at the Quintessence, theyre an entirely different bunch of beings in Future State with unknown levels of power in contrast to what you can quantify about characters in the DC present. Plus again it goes back to the fact that Unkindness doesnt destroy anyone on panel bar the Wizard. The rest is off panel or done by her minions who the Phantom Stranger confirmed were reruited because of their destructive capacity. So Unkindness' solo abilities are an unknown quantity. Her solo contribution an unknown quantity.
Dont patronise me.
Attempt to out debate me, but do so respectfully. We're OG's here, do better. 😉
“As in the beginning, there was the word.” — creation story.
As a standalone sentence taken completely out of context you'd be forgiven for interpreting as such. However when said sentence is immediately preceded by the Wizard proposing a way for Adam to save the universe by saying one word...."Shazam." theres no support or excuse for your interpretation.
“And now,” — a separation from the previous line by idea, period and timeframe, beginning vs now.“The last of an ancient wizards power, wrapped up in that word” — referring to him saying Shazam here at the end of all things, with the last magic in creation, in direct line comparison to the original statement.
To paraphrase it states it all began with the word (Shazam) and now it ends with that same word. Your interpretation doesn't reconcile the fact that the 2nd part of the sentence ("that word"😉 explains what word is meant in the 1st part of the sentence.
My interpretation is supported by the scene immediately before (the focus on the word "Shazam" to save the universe) and in the main scene we're talking about where its stated that the word in question is one the Wizards power is tied to. Which we all know to be the word Shazam.
Your perspective is tenuous at best and entirely unsupported by the context or art of the comic.
Regardless, all it comes down to is Unkindness has a universal scale of destructive power at best.
Whilst the ultimate coverage of her destruction might have been the entire DC multiverse, she achieved this over time, going place to place trawling through creation. Thats not top tier. Powerful but not the best of the best.
If she was simultaneously destroying multiple planes of reality, or even demonstrated on panel being able to wipe out a single reality casually with the blink of an eye, then she would be certified top tier.
But instead as confirmed it was a gradual dimension to dimension process, with her hovering over and taking time just to destroy Kahndaq
and to rub salt in the wounds, her wave of destruction was bolstered by the Lords of Chaos as confirmed by Phantom Stranger who stated they were specifically recruited by Unkindness for their destructive capacity:
So just what is Unkindness capable of solo? 😕
It was never shown, so we'll never know. Her power is an unverifiable myth.