Originally posted by Arachnid1It doesn't, but you're welcome to that view.
That's alright. It wasn't necessarily just for you, and most if it is just a play by play of the fights post-serum Walker was in. The point is to establish Walkers level for versus matches. The show made it clear that he's >>>>> Bucky at multiple instances.
Do you also think he's >>>> Cap when Bucky showed superior strength to Cap with his bionic arm?
Originally posted by MindsetIt does. You're free to ignore the post where I clearly outlined why, but plugging your ears won't make you right. Walker performed better. Full stop.
It doesn't, but you're welcome to that view.Do you also think he's >>>> Cap when Bucky showed superior strength to Cap with his bionic arm?
And yes, he's stronger than Cap (at least as far as CA:TWS). He didn't just overpower Bucky's arm. He overpowered his entire body and pinned him before straight up KOing him by hammer tossing him into a wall. He had Bucky completely helpless, which is something Steve just wouldn't be able to do. US Agent is also stronger than Cap in the comics, so that's something that they may have wanted to translate.
Walker repeatedly overpowered anyone he was up against one-on-one in terms of strength, whether it was Sam, Bucky, Karli or any of the other Flag Smashers. That's one of the few things in the show that was actually consistent.
He's still lacking in the skill feats department though IMO. He used more muscle than finesse a lot of the time.
And I still think Crossbones can take this. A strength advantage is useful, but you can still be outfought by a more skilled opponent, and I can think of a bunch of people who are physically weaker than Walker but are more skilled and use bladed weapons who'd kill him. And he no longer has the shield either. Though I suppose he can just shoot opponents in situations where his sidearm isn't restricted.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
And I still think Crossbones can take this. A strength advantage is useful, but you can still be outfought by a more skilled opponent, and I can think of a bunch of people who are physically weaker than Walker but are more skilled and use bladed weapons who'd kill him. And he no longer has the shield either. Though I suppose he can just shoot opponents in situations where his sidearm isn't restricted.
I think Walker has a good chance of outlasting Crossbones if it wasn't for the knives. But Walker is not skilled enough to avoid all hits, and those knives are going to be the death of him.
Originally posted by Arachnid1If you weren't verbose I would have read it.
It does. You're free to ignore the post where I clearly outlined why, but plugging your ears won't make you right. Walker performed better. Full stop.And yes, he's stronger than Cap (at least as far as CA:TWS). He didn't just overpower Bucky's arm. He overpowered his entire body and pinned him before straight up KOing him by hammer tossing him into a wall. He had Bucky completely helpless, which is something Steve just wouldn't be able to do. US Agent is also stronger than Cap in the comics, so that's something that they may have wanted to translate.
Every super solder can throw each other around. Cap and Bucky were throwing each other around in their fight.
Bucky and Cap have better feats than Walker right now.
I will say it's possible that the vibranium arm is weaker than his original one though.
Originally posted by MindsetI didn't just say "throw around". I said he had him pinned and overpowered, body and all (and for an extended period of time). He also had Bucky KOed pretty easily. Can just any super soldier do all that? Way to ignore every part of the post that mattered to, yet again, misconstrue the argument and make a pointless statement.
If you weren't verbose I would have read it.Every super solder can throw each other around. Cap and Bucky were throwing each other around in their fight.
Bucky and Cap have better feats than Walker right now.
I will say it's possible that the vibranium arm is weaker than his original one though.
Bucky got stomped in a fight. This is the most recent version of Bucky with all feats intact. That means Walker is beyond him. There is no way around this, and arguing it is asinine. It's on screen for anyone to see.
Explaining feats to you requires being verbose. Otherwise, you choose to ignore what's on screen like you've been doing. That post was me spelling every fight out as simply as possible, and in a way that can't be refuted because it's play for play, straight from the screen. Welcome to the versus message board.
Originally posted by Arachnid1I didn't address it because I wasn't trying to refute it. If someone is of roughly equal strength they can pin you. WS had Cap pinned; Cap had WS pinned. Cap threw WS; WS threw Cap. Shit, WS had Iron Man pinned against a wall. Walker got knocked out by a kick from Karli. Every super soldier has the ability to knock out another super soldier.
I didn't just say "throw around". I said he had him pinned and overpowered, body and all (and for an extended period of time). He also had Bucky KOed pretty easily. Can just any super soldier do all that? Way to ignore every part of the post that mattered to, yet again, misconstrue the argument and make a pointless statement.Bucky got stomped in a fight. This is the most recent version of Bucky with all feats intact. That means Walker is beyond him. There is no way around this, and arguing it is asinine. It's on screen for anyone to see.
Explaining feats to you requires being verbose. Otherwise, you choose to ignore what's on screen like you've been doing. That post was me spelling every fight out as simply as possible, and in a way that can't be refuted because it's play for play, straight from the screen. Welcome to the versus message board.
If Walker were clearly above WS all of his showings would show that, but they don't. Is Karli above Walker? Bucky knocked her out, but she knocked Walker out.
Originally posted by MindsetI truly don't understand how you can watch Bucky be physically overpowered and stomped within seconds (twice btw, they had two bouts during that fight), and still try to argue that he's in anyway Walker's equal. It makes it look like you're just arguing favorites. And no, Cap never effortlessly overpowered and pinned WS the way Walker did. You'll need to provide proof of that. Walker forced the dude up into a surface, Bucky tried to push out, and then Walker forced him back in for an extended period. Bucky was flat out helpless and you could see the strain he was under. Meanwhile, Walker was barely struggling to keep him there. The only reason Bucky got out is because Walker decided to KO him and move on to Falcon.
I didn't address it because I wasn't trying to refute it. If someone is of roughly equal strength they can pin you. WS had Cap pinned; Cap had WS pinned. Cap threw WS; WS threw Cap. Shit, WS had Iron Man pinned against a wall. Walker got knocked out by a kick from Karli. Every super soldier has the ability to knock out another super soldier.If Walker were clearly above WS all of his showings would show that, but they don't. Is Karli above Walker? Bucky knocked her out, but she knocked Walker out.
US Agent being physically stronger than WS is the one thing everyone else has been able to agree on with him, at the very least. If you want to prove otherwise, show me a scene of US Agent being physically overpowered by Bucky. If you want to prove Bucky can hang with Walker in a fight, show me a single exchange between them that ends in Bucky's favor. I'm betting you can't do either.
I also pointed out Karli being the only inconsistency as far as Walker goes (as have other people). If you want to argue she's beyond both Walker and Winter Soldier off that, enjoy. The only thing I'm arguing here is that Walker stomped Bucky and that he's a physically stronger super soldier by a solid margin. Both are facts.
When Sam charged Walker from the air during the episode 5 2-on-1, Walker grabbed him and slammed him into the ground. He also won the tug of war and pulled Sam into the ground when the latter tried using his grappling line on him. He then overpowered Bucky (who was the one starting with the shield in hand there), pushed him back, broke his grip on the shield and flung him like a sack of potatoes. During the finale, he easily forced Karli away when she grabbed onto his garage shield. And he overpowers the other Flag Smashers in other instances as well.
I don't think he's the most skilled fighter on the show by any means, but him being the strongest physically was one of the few things that the writers showed with any real degree of consistency.