Hulk vs versatility 1

Oh, ok. I was having ShadowFyre's post in mind.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's the difference between powerSET and powerLEVEL.

Hulk may have the powerSET to adapt. But not the powerLEVEL.

Just like US Agent, Beast, and Hulk all have superstrength - powerSET. But we all agree that the degree to which they have this power differs, yes? And US Agent's degree of superstrength doesn't mean he can tangle with say, Colossus.

Hulk has....we all agree he has SOME degree of adaptation in terms of how he grows gills. He has it as a powerSET. Does he have the LEVEL to suddenly adapt to everything and anything? No. Just like US Agent can lift more than what a human can lift - doesn't mean he can lift everything and anything. Stilt and Carver have shown that actually, his 'adapting' powers are nowhere near as fast as, say, the way he ramps up in strength when angry.

Leo brings up 'well, he has done impossible things, so why not' - then on the same page, says 'well, OK, maybe not impossible things like lifting Mjolnir - that's TOO impossible!'

Can he break primary adamantium with pure strength? Can he lift Mjolnir with pure strength? Why can't he? He has done the impossible, so why are these two things 'impossible-ier'?

Why is turning his nipples into eyes somehow more farfetched than converting his blood to negate Magneto?

Could Hulk "not impossibly" adapt so hard, that he stops being Hulk and becomes a non-Gamma EM Spectrum, Dark Matter bloodless Golem being that cannot be lifted in the air?

Originally posted by Philosophía
Oh, ok. I was having ShadowFyre's post in mind.

I did quote him, but him quoting carter. 😂

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Well, thats actually a good question Carver, not sure if Philo answered ita and I may be wrong but the simple fact that Superman can accelerate at speeds beyond the electrical synapses in Mags brain or simply generate more power. But this might actually be detrimental to Clark. Honestly not sure.

I dont understand though. I'm Magneto, controlling the blood through your body, main organs. How would you even gain the thought of doing any of that? So if he controls all of the people I've named blood all at the same time, including the flow of blood to their brains, all at the same time, wouldn't that make Magneto an unbeatable character? Or, is there a limit to his ability to control people?

I think people are too limited, and are seeing it as if it's a TK bubble/GL construct, with the target inside something that can be smashed/pushed against.

This isn't. Imagine right now your spine is being pulled forwards. Not by an invisible hand, there is no construct outside your body (or even inside) to brush off, or to crush.

What are you fighting against, then? Wriggle as much as you want - flail your arms as much as you want, or kick - your spine is still being pulled forwards.

'Ah, DS', you think - 'What if I dig my heels in and resist?? I've never skipped leg day, and there is no way you can pull me if I then drop to all fours and grab the floor as well!'

So I lift you in the air. Now what? You can't fly. What are you going to fight against? All I need to prove is that I can lift objects = to your weight, and that is it.

You COULD scream in my face to throw me off, maybe. Maybe dig in your pockets to find something to throw at me, disrupting my concentration. Maybe try stripping, and hope your naked quivering body gives me pause (

Spoiler:
it does not

Originally posted by Philosophía
Oh, ok. I was having ShadowFyre's post in mind.

Could Hulk "not impossibly" adapt so hard, that he stops being Hulk and becomes a non-Gamma EM Spectrum, Dark Matter bloodless Golem being that cannot be lifted in the air?

I mean, it may SOUND impossible, but he has done impossible things before, so we cannot preclude the possibility. It would happen, but not often.

But in the way that Flash 'having superspeed' doesn't mean he can move in femtoseconds --- unless proven on panel that level of magnitude [which the panel actually proves, and makes it a fact], Hulk is not proven on panel [and again, as you admit it's not provable he can, only a "not impossible" scenario"] to alter his blood to counter electromagnetism.

the difference is flash's femtosecond is something that can won't change--in any given situation we can say flash moves at femtosecond speed. the nature of femtosecond won't change.

the opposite is true for adaptation. with adaptation, the nature of the power is that it WILL change, and we can't know the way it will manifest until the situation has actually been encountered. which is why there's no way to give a specific answer. in hulk's case, add in the fact that his adaptive abilities have rarely been shown and it becomes even more difficult.

@delta: i agree dd has a vastly better chance of adapting some direct counter to mags' power. but how would that manifest? what specifically would he do? beats me. but i can say there is a good chance he would adapt and not really be worried about the nature of what is manifested. if you suggest a specific adaptation, is it fan fic? graviton hoists dd in the air. how does he adapt out of it? prove it with an on-panel example. see what i'm getting at? with hulk, the chances are far lower, but the chance still exists, at least imo. and if the chance exists, and we've seen it on panel, how can we simply dismiss it as impossible?

Originally posted by Philosophía
Oh, ok. I was having ShadowFyre's post in mind.

Could Hulk "not impossibly" adapt so hard, that he stops being Hulk and becomes a non-Gamma EM Spectrum, Dark Matter bloodless Golem being that cannot be lifted in the air?

You edited after I replied. 😠

Hulk already has.....

in Carter's wet dreams

Originally posted by carver9
I dont understand though. I'm Magneto, controlling the blood through your body, main organs. How would you even gain the thought of doing any of that? So if he controls all of the people I've named blood all at the same time, including the flow of blood to their brains, all at the same time, wouldn't that make Magneto an unbeatable character? Or, is there a limit to his ability to control people?

I'm just saying, the thread is about controlling blood, if someone is controlling your blood, that alone should be traumatic enough to hinder any process of flying towards a Magneto who have a shield around his body. Per this thread, his first thought is grabbing beings using their blood as the target for the attack. Blood throughout the body. There's no way anyone is surviving this unless again, there is a limit.

Originally posted by leonidas
the difference is flash's femtosecond is something that can won't change--in any given situation we can say flash moves at femtosecond speed. the nature of femtosecond won't change.

the opposite is true for adaptation. with adaptation, the nature of the power is that it WILL change, and we can't know the way it will manifest until the situation has actually been encountered. which is why there's no way to give a specific answer. in hulk's case, add in the fact that his adaptive abilities have rarely been shown and it becomes even more difficult.

The adaptability is judged in magnitude.

We have proof of speed's magnitude, so we can say that femtosecond is a fact.

We have no proof of adaptability working at that level that a gland specifically restructures his whole body to make his blood immune to electromagnetism and supposedly also his gamma energy, because why not, so it doesn't actually exist as something that can be treated as something provable -- never mind proved, never mind conflating it with Flash's FACTUAL ability and going for both "would happen, but not often." Because you cannot prove it happens at all -- as we've already talked about, contrary to Flash where we can not only prove he has that speed but has actually used that level of speed.

It's the difference between fact [something existing] and fan-fiction [something made up].

Originally posted by carver9
I'm just saying, the thread is about controlling blood, if someone is controlling your blood, that alone should be traumatic enough to hinder any process of flying towards a Magneto who have a shield around his body. Per this thread, his first thought is grabbing beings using their blood as the target for the attack. Blood throughout the body. There's no way anyone is surviving this unless again, there is a limit.

I do believe the argument as started was what could Hulk do just being suspended. Not stopping flow to the brain or ****ing with his heart. Just being held midair. If anything I saw you turning it into this.

@phil: we've seen hulk's body change, so it IS on panel. we simply haven't seen it change in the way i suggested. developing the ability to survive indefinitely in space or breathing underwater require changes to biochemistry. altering his blood would require the same kind of alteration. i don't see any significance difference in magnitude. i get your overall point though, so we can--again--agree to disagree since neither of us is budging on this. 👆

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It could be interpreted as adaptive powers, as sometimes it takes a while for him to shrug off the effects, as if his body learned how to counter it.

Most of the time it’s inherently tied to his other powers: dynamic strength, new applications for strength (grabbing energy and astral forms), new ways to project/absorb energy, etc... There are some feats of Hulk just growing gills, or saying that his body will adapt to a “zero atmosphere environment” or his body just.... refusing to be BFRed. But most of the time it’s more in the vein of Hulk adapting and growing his usual powerset. Which is why is impossible to speak to a scenario where Hulk has a minor part of his powerset (adapting) without the main thing that defines all his other powers (dynamic strength).

Could Hulk overcome Mags? Eh, maybe. I think his body would try to rip out the parts that are being controlled or absorb the EM energy being exerted on him or just become strong enough to overpower the effect, like Ultimate Colossus did. Obviously we can keep changing the scenario of how Mags specifically attacks, hence, fan fiction.

Originally posted by leonidas
the difference is flash's femtosecond is something that can won't change--in any given situation we can say flash moves at femtosecond speed. the nature of femtosecond won't change.

the opposite is true for adaptation. with adaptation, the nature of the power is that it WILL change, and we can't know the way it will manifest until the situation has actually been encountered. which is why there's no way to give a specific answer. in hulk's case, add in the fact that his adaptive abilities have rarely been shown and it becomes even more difficult.

@delta: i agree dd has a vastly better chance of adapting some direct counter to mags' power. but how would that manifest? what specifically would he do? beats me. but i can say there is a good chance he would adapt and not really be worried about the nature of what is manifested. if you suggest a specific adaptation, is it fan fic? graviton hoists dd in the air. how does he adapt out of it? prove it with an on-panel example. see what i'm getting at? with hulk, the chances are far lower, but the chance still exists, at least imo. and if the chance exists, and we've seen it on panel, how can we simply dismiss it as impossible?

DD shoots poisoned bone spurs at Graviton, which were fast and durable enough to spear through Superman.

Same with Magneto. Bone being non ferrous.

But I digress 😂 ....

With Hulk, you are giving him - as I said before - a no limits fallacy, when we have seen his 'adaptive' powers aren't there at that level. Again, it's like reading US Agent's bio, seeing the word superstrength and saying, ah yes, he CAN lift 100 tons, easily! Look, here are multiple examples of him lifting more than any human alive, far too many examples to just say he can't lift 100 tons!

Originally posted by leonidas
i get your overall point though, so we can--again--agree to disagree since neither of us is budging on this. 👆

@ds: no limits would mean he could adapt a null field and simply walk through mags' power. so, for the 10th time, just because you want to label my stance as no limits clearly doesn't make it so.

Originally posted by leonidas
@ds: no limits would mean he could adapt a null field and simply walk through mags' power. so, for the 10th time, just because you want to label my stance as no limits clearly doesn't make it so.

So, the argument about Hulj growing a gland that counters Magneto. Would you argue this in a BZ?

Originally posted by leonidas
@ds: no limits would mean he could adapt a null field and simply walk through mags' power. so, for the 10th time, just because you want to label my stance as no limits clearly doesn't make it so.

But why is the null field any more impossible than anything else?

If Namor pulled so hard against mags, it might actually kill him. He would literally be rippingnhis own flesh, bones, and organs away from his blood. That would be pretty badass to see actually

Originally posted by carver9
I dont understand though. I'm Magneto, controlling the blood through your body, main organs. How would you even gain the thought of doing any of that? So if he controls all of the people I've named blood all at the same time, including the flow of blood to their brains, all at the same time, wouldn't that make Magneto an unbeatable character? Or, is there a limit to his ability to control people?