Basically, in that scan Cap was too weak to affect Hulk. You can see Hulk was able to twist his head out of the lock, even though Cap is drawn as straining.
Which makes sense, considering the power levels these guys play at.
Someone doing the same with the strength and power of Shazam, however, shouldn't have the same problem.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Basically, in that scan Cap was too weak to affect Hulk. You can see Hulk was able to twist his head out of the lock, even though Cap is drawn as straining.Which makes sense, considering the power levels these guys play at.
Someone doing the same with the strength and power of Shazam, however, shouldn't have the same problem.
Going by the dialogue it seemed like the writer intended it to work in the first scan, hence the point about dynamic powers.
And yeah, this was strictly about the Cap example, not on stronger opponents. But it seems to sometimes work even with human level opponents.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Maybe dynamic strength kicked in enough later?
It takes much less effort to make one simply lose his balance than to actually knock him out.
Samantha-Val, other than having considerable strength, technically needed to trick the Hulk and make him drop his guard before applying the pressure.
Originally posted by Delta1938
But it seems to sometimes work even with human level opponents.
Yeah, sometimes does, sometimes doesn't. BP is the perfect example of that.
He knocked down Luke Cage in two moves, but hurt his own hand and achieved nothing when facing that Skrull who was using Cage's super-durability (but then again, he didn't know about that, so perhaps he simply wasn't careful enough).
--
Anyway, all has been cleared up in this thread for everyone not named carver.
Since on-panel showings of that amped Cassie are very limited, we're only speculating on the possibilities of her skillset mixed with Shazam's powerset... and if she goes all "Superman vs. Ultraman" nerve spam on the Hulk, there is a very good chance it'll give her astoundingly good results.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It takes much less effort to make one simply lose his balance than to actually knock him out.Samantha-Val, other than having considerable strength, technically needed to trick the Hulk and make him drop his guard before applying the pressure.
Yes but to me the dialogue makes it look like the writer intended this to be a pressure point.
And that's something that I haven't seen addressed on Valkyrie. Calling it a low showing.....because it's a low showing? I would think if it was a low showing there would be examples of someone stronger than her failing with them.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah, sometimes does, sometimes doesn't. BP is the perfect example of that.He knocked down Luke Cage in two moves, but hurt his own hand and achieved nothing when facing that Skrull who was using Cage's super-durability (but then again, he didn't know about that, so perhaps he simply wasn't careful enough).
--
Anyway, all has been cleared up in this thread for everyone not named carver.Since on-panel showings of that amped Cassie are very limited, we're only speculating on the possibilities of her skillset mixed with Shazam's powerset... and if she goes all "Superman vs. Ultraman" nerve spam on the Hulk, there is a very good chance it'll give her astoundingly good results.
Probably the reason why carter is saying they won't work because they won't because because. He knows he can't argue against Superman using them effectively beyond arguing it's not something he usually does. He knows Hulk ending up on the receiving end of that would be like this.
And that was the last time carter ever wore white face and impersonated Chris Hanson.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Yes but to me the dialogue makes it look like the writer intended this to be a pressure point.
Because it was.
But some pressure point attacks need more time and/or force before they start giving desired results (rather than those instantaneous simple-poke-magical-touch), headlocks in particular.
Alternatively, you could argue that Cap missed the right nerve somehow.
Fun fact: Werewolf by Night did knock the Hulk out using the same hold. He's certainly not as skilled as Steve, but he is stronger.
Originally posted by Delta1938
And that's something that I haven't seen addressed on Valkyrie. Calling it a low showing.....because it's a low showing? I would think if it was a low showing there would be examples of someone stronger than her failing with them.
There is Temugin, who beats the crap out of Iron Man with his bare hands.
His chi-amped nerve strikes hurt the Hulk, but didn't stop him from fighting back and beating Temugin on the same page.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Probably the reason why carter is saying they won't work because they won't because because. He knows he can't argue against Superman using them effectively beyond arguing it's not something he usually does. He knows Hulk ending up on the receiving end of that would be like this.And that was the last time carter ever wore white face and impersonated Chris Hanson.
Carv just wants the Hulk to be unbeatable in any Vs. match he is in. It's really as simple as that.
He calls that "debating".
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Because it was.But some pressure point attacks need more time and/or force before they start giving desired results (rather than those instantaneous simple-poke-magical-touch), headlocks in particular.
Alternatively, you could argue that Cap missed the right nerve somehow.
Fun fact: Werewolf by Night did knock the Hulk out using the same hold. He's certainly not as skilled as Steve, but he is stronger.
There is Temugin, who beats the crap out of Iron Man with his bare hands.
His chi-amped nerve strikes hurt the Hulk, but didn't stop him from fighting back and beating Temugin on the same page.
Carv just wants the Hulk to be unbeatable in any Vs. match he is in. It's really as simple as that.
He calls that "debating".
How strong is Werewolf?
And carter buys his own hype. I've been on Xbox with him and he was arrogant and cocky about one of my threads acting like he won, laughing at me telling how I wrecked him, only for him to read through and his tone changed to surprise and he said, "It didn't go how I remember."
But given he couldn't remember he told us his own name, it doesn't surprise me.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It takes much less effort to make one simply lose his balance than to actually knock him out.Samantha-Val, other than having considerable strength, technically needed to trick the Hulk and make him drop his guard before applying the pressure.
Yeah, sometimes does, sometimes doesn't. BP is the perfect example of that.
He knocked down Luke Cage in two moves, but hurt his own hand and achieved nothing when facing that Skrull who was using Cage's super-durability (but then again, he didn't know about that, so perhaps he simply wasn't careful enough).
--
Anyway, all has been cleared up in this thread for everyone not named carver.Since on-panel showings of that amped Cassie are very limited, we're only speculating on the possibilities of her skillset mixed with Shazam's powerset... and if she goes all "Superman vs. Ultraman" nerve spam on the Hulk, there is a very good chance it'll give her astoundingly good results.
Luke Cage and his inconsistent durability.
Remember that time he tanked a full power Iron Fist under Claremont? And in the very next issue by Claremont he hurt his hands trying to hit robot bank robbers, got beat down by same robots, who got shredded in one Iron Fist?
Originally posted by Delta1938
How strong is Werewolf?
Hard to say, as he fluctuates a great deal. Low to mid meta category. Enough to fight guys roughly in Spider-Man's league, such as Spider Woman or Morbius. Was once said to rival Ghost Rider's strength, but that was during Blaze's early days.
Certainly not as strong as Shazam or low Class 100 characters, even under the full moon, which is all we need to know for this thread.
Originally posted by Delta1938
But given he couldn't remember he told us his own name, it doesn't surprise me.
At this point of KMC history, we could write a series of books about Carver's memory problems.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Hard to say, as he fluctuates a great deal. Low to mid meta category. Enough to fight guys roughly in Spider-Man's league, such as Spider Woman or Morbius. Was once said to rival Ghost Rider's strength, but that was during Blaze's early days.Certainly not as strong as Shazam or low Class 100 characters, even under the full moon, which is all we need to know for this thread.
At this point of KMC history, we could write a series of books about Carver's memory problems.
So far less strong and skilled and still succeeded with what carter claims won't work. Hmmmmm.....
I wonder if he has to be reminded how to put his pants on each day.
Originally posted by Stoic
What character could defeat Iron Fist with the strength of Blue Marvel? Probably not many, which is why the martial arts characters seem to always have Olympic level stats.
Carv is afraid if he acknowledges it in here, then Supes can spam nerve strikes all day.
Originally posted by cdtm
Luke Cage and his inconsistent durability.Remember that time he tanked a full power Iron Fist under Claremont? And in the very next issue by Claremont he hurt his hands trying to hit robot bank robbers, got beat down by same robots, who got shredded in one Iron Fist?
It proofs than even same writer doesn't guarantee a consistency. Because plot demands otherwise.
Stan Lee himself said "If I want Spider-Man to win, I makes Spider-Man win! If I want Thing to win, I make thing win!"
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Hard to say, as he fluctuates a great deal. Low to mid meta category. Enough to fight guys roughly in Spider-Man's league, such as Spider Woman or Morbius. Was once said to rival Ghost Rider's strength, but that was during Blaze's early days.Certainly not as strong as Shazam or low Class 100 characters, even under the full moon, which is all we need to know for this thread.
At this point of KMC history, we could write a series of books about Carver's memory problems.
Werewolf By Night definitely needs his own respect thread!