Superboy Prime vs universe 616

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You are missing the point entirely and arguing over a point thats not being asserted as canon.

I said either its a case of DK being weakened or hampered in some form or its Plot Induced Stupidity. (Look up the forum rules for PIS)

I never asserted a weakening as being canon, im all about conclusive evidence, so why youre pursuing me as if i did is baffling. Read and digest the points in play and then you'll find you'll be doing a lot less typing.

You might as well say...DK could have been
1. Weakened, hampered
2. Tired, or sleepy
3. Playing around with SBP
4. was weak to Kryptonian's flesh

None of these make any more sense than the other

Could it be PIS, you can make an argument about that. Anything else, it's really just you making baseless assumption.

As for PIS, we can discuss that but first, lets start with why you think or even brought up the idea that DK was hampered or weakened? What makes that anything but baseless.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No, I'm not missing the point. You dont seem to understand, that you're bringing into this conversation, possibility that are baseless. There is also no point to continue past that until we've establishment your initial stance.

You might as well say...DK could have been
1. Weakened, hampered
2. Tired, or sleepy
3. Playing around with SBP
4. was weak to Kryptonian's flesh

None of these make any more sense than the other

Could it be PIS, you can make an argument about that. Anything else, it's really just you making baseless assumption.

As for PIS, we can discuss that but first, lets start with why you think or even brought up the idea that DK was hampered or weakened? What makes that anything but baseless.

Again, your actions are baffling.

I have stated clear as day that im ALL about conclusive evidence.

Without conclusive evidence then its just an exchange of interpretations and you either agree or disagree.

Ive stated my reasons why i believe DK could have been weakened. Read away. Its not a long thread. I also made it clear that was an interpretation. If you dont agree with that interpretation thats fine. Stop doggedly attacking that interpretation and throwing around claims that its baseless when its not something thats being asserted as canon but instead an interpretation based on the events in the story. Your actions are odd. Agree or disagree on that interpretation and move on.

If you dont agree that DK was hampered in some way then given what DK is capable of doing with the Dr Manhattan power set, (i.e high level reality, chronal, matter manipulation etc) then the fact that he did none of that and resorted to just punches is conclusively PIS. Its how it was written.

However here in a forum battle we're not bound by PIS. So we would be judging a DK and all of the varied abilities he has at his disposal vs SBP.

Given SBPs demonstrated vulnerabilities a forum battle would have a very different outcome 🙂

PIS is a common feature of comic book storytelling. Without it then battles could be a lot less compelling in portrayal as they'd end quickly or just wouldn't look visually interesting from an artistic viewpoint.

Flash not speed-blitzing his non superhumanly fast foes and swiftly ending a battle is PIS.

Magneto being able to manipulate the entire electromagnetic spectrum but being shown to be virtually helpless without a supply of metal around is PIS.

DK beng as intellingent as he is, having the insight he does and having the powerset that he does in the face of SBP having numerous known and exploitable weaknesses and yet not doing anything but fist fighting with SBP is PIS.

You cant when it suits you then say DK is capable of all of these multiversal spanning feats so he can beat x amount of Marvel characters (based on his full power set), then say SBP beat DK so he can also beat all those Marvel characters and yet ignore the fact that DK didnt use those abilities in fighting SBP 😬

You're keep bringing up PIS, as i said, we will discuss that after
You're bringing up a possibility that DK was weakened. Yet, you have brought up anything as evidence except PIS, which is entirely different excuse and discussion

If you willing to drop the idea that DK may have been weakened or hampered, than im happy to discuss PIS.

we aren't going to move forward until we settle this. Otherwise, any discuss will never end. You'll claim that he was weakened or any other person will be making the assumption that DK was toying with SBP. Both are baseless

Well said GS. It's as clear as day that Superboy Prime was subject to the time stream. You even see his humble beginnings for the love of Smurfette!

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You're keep bringing up PIS, as i said, we will discuss that after
You're bringing up a possibility that DK was weakened. Yet, you have brought up anything as evidence except PIS, which is entirely different excuse and discussion

If you willing to drop the idea that DK may have been weakened or hampered, than im happy to discuss PIS.

we aren't going to move forward until we settle this. Otherwise, any discuss will never end. You'll claim that he was weakened or any other person will be making the assumption that DK was toying with SBP. Both are baseless

There's a very good possibility that you missed the point. It really doesn't matter either because if DK didn't truly job the phuck out, it would mean that not only could Superboy Prime dust him, but Monarch would've given him a wedgie as well. DK was supposed to be able to see an attack coming from a million plus years away. You wouldn't call what happened PIS, jobbing, whatever you call it when the superior character is beaten the phuck down by the unlikely savior?

Originally posted by Stoic
There's a very good possibility that you missed the point. It really doesn't matter either because if DK didn't truly job the phuck out, it would mean that not only could Superboy Prime dust him, but Monarch would've given him a wedgie as well. DK was supposed to be able to see an attack coming from a million plus years away. You wouldn't call what happened PIS, jobbing, whatever you call it when the superior character is beaten the phuck down by the unlikely savior?

Here we go

Would you like me to show you 10000x battle of people not using all their exotic powers

When two characters are battling it out, when DK states they are even, it’s rather ridiculous to pretend as if DK was playing stupid or hampered. It’s really ridiculous you’d try and claim if when DK has been pretty consistent with his statements. Not only that, but every battles with DK through the series has been consistently portrayed by the author. His battle with Perpetua and even WW (which by your own admission was greater in scope) barelyincluded anything new from his power set.

As for Monarch giving prime issues. He really didn’t, prime defeated pretty easily. Although, by the time the battle ended, his guardian amped wore off, and he was KOed by a universal explosion. That said, that same guardian amp Superboy scared Mxy

At the end, I’m not missing any point you’re trying to make. What you’re trying to do is rather silly. The entire issue is rather easy to understand and comprehend. It doesn’t take genius to interpret what the writer intended to occur. Prime and DK were nearly even with DK have a slight edge. Any excuse to paint this as character not fighting too full extend is comical considering the statements made by both character.

Also, I don’t want to continue is repetitive statement
Can we call for a quick mod ruling
You or GS can make a one post argument why you think it was PIS or that DK was weakened or Hampered
I’ll make a counter point

So long as you have the last statement, I'm sure that's okay.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Here we go

Would you like me to show you 10000x battle of people not using all their exotic powers

When two characters are battling it out, when DK states they are even, it’s rather ridiculous to pretend as if DK was playing stupid or hampered. It’s really ridiculous you’d try and claim if when DK has been pretty consistent with his statements. Not only that, but every battles with DK through the series has been consistently portrayed by the author. His battle with Perpetua and even WW (which by your own admission was greater in scope) barelyincluded anything new from his power set.

As for Monarch giving prime issues. He really didn’t, prime defeated pretty easily. Although, by the time the battle ended, his guardian amped wore off, and he was KOed by a universal explosion. That said, that same guardian amp Superboy scared Mxy

At the end, I’m not missing any point you’re trying to make. What you’re trying to do is rather silly. The entire issue is rather easy to understand and comprehend. It doesn’t take genius to interpret what the writer intended to occur. Prime and DK were nearly even with DK have a slight edge. Any excuse to paint this as character not fighting too full extend is comical considering the statements made by both character.

You can show me whatever you want, but as long as one character has the power to run up and down the other's time line, and can see the past, present, future, with the ability to reality warp with the precision of a master, while the other can only throw punches and do other limited shit, guess who wins? There was a point in time that Superboy Prime wasn't all that super. Like when he was in the comic store with the love of his life. How hard do you think it would be to place him in a loop where he relives walking into the comic store, buying the comic, and as he walks out, he walks back in to buy the comic forever? DK jobbed, or he wasn't as badass as you thought.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Also, I don’t want to continue is repetitive statement
Can we call for a quick mod ruling
You or GS can make a one post argument why you think it was PIS or that DK was weakened or Hampered
I’ll make a counter point

Think forum battle minus plot.

Originally posted by Stoic
You can show me whatever you want, but as long as one character has the power to run up and down the other's time line, and can see the past, present, future, with the ability to reality warp with the precision of a master, while the other can only throw punches and do other limited shit, guess who wins? There was a point in time that Superboy Prime wasn't all that super. Like when he was in the comic store with the love of his life. How hard do you think it would be to place him in a loop where he relives walking into the comic store, buying the comic, and as he walks out, he walks back in to buy the comic forever? DK jobbed, or he wasn't as badass as you thought.

Does this seem like a regular old punch? Compare supergirls fist to his in this scan.

Now tell me is that a regular punch by a brick?

That energy around his punch was the same type as the one around DK. This implies that he has gained the same type of power and was above DK ready for the kill.

Before someone jumps in and says oh that only happens against DK or his creation, then how about this one here?

This wasn’t against DK.
These don’t appear to be regular old punches. The energy signature seemingly changed to match his opponent or situation.

To add onto the first scan, my opinion here but if he’s working with the same type of energy and power as DK, how do you know he didn’t become resistant to all sort of manipulation?

With that said, what was the writer intent in that comic?
The comic explicitly stated that
1)DK could not kill prime.
2)Begged prime to join him while in fight. Who does that? Someone who knows he can’t win.
3)prime easily beat the crap out of him.
4) could have taken DK’s power, something even perpetua could not do.
When you factor in the above you can easily surmise that the writer’s intent in that comic was prime >>> one of the all time most powerful
Character.

Again As how prime was depicted in the comic, prime destroys marvel.

Originally posted by Stoic
You can show me whatever you want, but as long as one character has the power to run up and down the other's time line, and can see the past, present, future, with the ability to reality warp with the precision of a master, while the other can only throw punches and do other limited shit, guess who wins? There was a point in time that Superboy Prime wasn't all that super. Like when he was in the comic store with the love of his life. How hard do you think it would be to place him in a loop where he relives walking into the comic store, buying the comic, and as he walks out, he walks back in to buy the comic forever? DK jobbed, or he wasn't as badass as you thought.

DK vs WW, neither one used exotic powers. Literally, they managed to punch in kick their way back and forth in time before one got killed by an all consuming sun.
DK vs Perpetua, again, nothing exceptional except one or two energy blasts. Does this means one of them was weakened, or even hampered? 😂

One same writer did all the battles and painted a pretty good explanation of what each battle was doing to the multiverse. It’s a bit silly to try and interpret it as anything else.

Should we go back to all the near omnipotent beings someone end up resorting to punching and kicking?

KMC’s “NO PIS” rule:

“The "No PIS" Rule

PIS = Plot Induced Stupidity

At times, for the sake of the plot, characters that are immensely more powerful than their opponent will "job" to carry on the plot of the story, even though the characters powers and history would clearly show that they are more than capable of destroying their opponent. For this reason we have a No PIS Rule. This rule prohibits the use of such instances of PIS from being used as evidence in debates.”

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=461496

Other explanations of PIS:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Plot-Induced_Stupidity#:~:text=Description,the%20purpose%20of%20the%20plot.

“Plot-Induced Stupidity, or PIS for short, is a term used to refer to events in a story that contradict a character's normal capabilities for the purpose of the plot. For example, if a generally competent, intelligent villain does something stupid like not killing the hero immediately when he has the chance, and that allows the hero to win, that would be an example of PIS (If the villain was just incompetent in general, it would be CIS/Character-Induced Stupidity instead).”

The Dr Manhattan power set includes a degree of omniscience. Dr M doesn’t experience time linearly and can see past, present and future simultaneously:
https://imgur.com/tW2f8t8

https://imgur.com/xVs1TtV

He would know of the SBP battle and every action SBP would take in said battle and react accordingly.
This power was forgotten by the story

Dr Manhattan can casually alter the timestream meaning that any characters who aren’t ascendant (in an Abstract/Phoenix/Cosmic being manner) are all easily and helplessly vulnerable to this power. Witness him casually make alterations to DC history out of curiosity over the outcome:

https://imgur.com/kF0PhzJ

https://imgur.com/WeSnhDl

https://imgur.com/ZIbRNLU

His curiosity satisfied he decides on his preferred outcome and makes the change and restarts the timeline again, affecting countless lives without their consent or ability to do a thing:

https://imgur.com/H1nSHUa
https://imgur.com/H1U0s86
https://imgur.com/9U4EROP
https://imgur.com/cYdRm8f
https://imgur.com/KhqJy4n

Dr Manhattan could alter history so that Superboy Prime never existed. Or simly change events so Earth 1 Superman never made contact with him and helped him discover he had powers. Or he could simply do a localized time manipulation and age or de-age Superboy Prime.
This power was forgotten by the story

Dr Manhattan is a high level energy and matter manipulator and can analyse attacks and understand his opponent’s powers down to their component level better than his opponents can and nullify them:
https://imgur.com/kOWlFWt

https://imgur.com/AZoBmli

He can be blown apart and reconstitute as he possesses complete control over his own atomic structure meaning he can regenerate and is virtually indestructible

https://imgur.com/ZMn1DFx

https://imgur.com/lzpy2eK

https://imgur.com/IeYJcHN

He can be blown apart and reconstitute as he possesses complete control over energy and matter including his own.

So Darkest Knight could’ve made himself ephemeral so Superboy Prime was completely unable to make contact with him due to his limited brutish powerset and could’ve surrounded SBP in red suns to leave him entirely powerless.

As shown the DK powerset also allows for the manipulation of magic.

Heres how an armoured up SBP fared against magic in his very recent encounter with Shazam and Black Adam:
https://imgur.com/Vaf3X0S
SHAZAM

These powers were forgotten in the story

DK manipulated manipulated matter and energy to create 52 planets and he engaged Perpetua using those same abilities:

https://imgur.com/tW80S59
https://imgur.com/qy8Yar1

His battle against Superboy Prime was a slugfest.

Guess what that means? 😖hifty:
In that moment…………….His powers were forgotten by the story 😱

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You keep going in a circle

DK vs WW, neither one used exotic powers. Literally, they managed to punch in kick their way back and forth in time before one got killed by an all consuming sun.
DK vs Perpetua, again, nothing exceptional except one or two energy blasts. Does this means one of them was weakened, or even hampered? 😂

One same writer did all the battles and painted a pretty good explanation of what each battle was doing to the multiverse. It’s a bit silly to try and interpret it as anything else.

Should we go back to all the near omnipotent beings someone end up resorting to punching and kicking?

He keeps going in a circle?

He wouldnt need to repeat himself if you took the time out to digest the points hes making.

You talk of 1000s of battles you could refer to where characters dont utilize their full range of abilities. If using said abilities said characters could have easily avoided a loss against an opponent and yet the story for some inexplicable reason doesnt have them use said ability then yes each and every one of those stories would demonstrate PIS

With the Dr Manhattan power set Darkest Knight had access to a vast range of ways to defeat SBP. Before his battle with SBP he even used some of said abilities in his battle with Perpetua and yet for his fight with SBP those abilities were inexplicably not used.

PIS

Referencing instances where a character has won a battle via PIS is not allowed on this forum.

This Superboy Prime overhyping needs to die a death. 🙂

JL King post is hilarious. He wants to exclude powerset here but his main debating style outside of this thread is about powerset and not what is shown on panel. It's like people pick and choose when they want to ignore or accept on panel evidence.

Originally posted by carver9
JL King post is hilarious. He wants to exclude powerset here but his main debating style outside of this thread is about powerset and not what is shown on panel. It's like people pick and choose when they want to ignore or accept on panel evidence.

😂

Of all people...

Originally posted by -Pr-
😂

Of all people...

Lol... I don't pick and choose though. My argument has always been consistent.

Originally posted by -Pr-
😂

Of all people...

Wheres the neutrality Mr Mod?

We hold you to higher standards 😉

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I don't pick and choose though. My argument has always been consistent.

Lies make baby Jesus cry.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Wheres the neutrality Mr Mod?

We hold you to higher standards 😉

Hey, I am neutral. I hate you all equally!