Thor needs to breathe --- he is no Superman

Originally posted by Astner

So what I'm wondering is whether there's any actual evidence that contradicts scenes like the one above (and similar scenes) by clarifying beyond any reasonable doubt that he can hold his breath forever?

In his early appearances it mentioned many times he can hold his breath indefinitely

More Fun Comics 102
https://ibb.co/k5C9kFG

Superboy 9
https://ibb.co/qybmvNC

As for post X-kryptonite Superman, aside from the scans Abhi posted, I also remember I saw a scan states he can hold his breath indefinitely, but I don't remember the exact book, so I think I need to try search it

Originally posted by abhilegend
I have scans of Aquaman talking in space, doesn't mean he can survive without oxygen lol

Originally posted by Highfather Herc
Wasn't that scene just in the upper atmosphere of Earth? In any case, that would be an outlier. It's not like with Thor where you have dozens of examples.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Do you mean this?

In his early appearances it mentioned many times he can hold his breath indefinitely

More Fun Comics 102
https://ibb.co/k5C9kFG

Superboy 9
https://ibb.co/qybmvNC

Consider the expression "John ran the Marathon." Most people would take this to imply that John finished the Marathon, but the expression doesn't explicit imply it. John could've started the Marathon but given up halfway through, the expression would still be true.

Now consider the expression "John ran the entire Marathon." This does make it explicitly clear that John finished the Marathon, and the new expression would be false if he didn't finish.

Originally posted by Astner
Yes. And there's a reason I'm emphasizing this.

Consider the expression "John ran the Marathon." Most people would take this to imply that John finished the Marathon, but the expression doesn't explicit imply it. John could've started the Marathon but given up halfway through, the expression would still be true.

Now consider the expression "John ran the entire Marathon." This does make it explicitly clear that John finished the Marathon, and the new expression would be false if he didn't finish.

"John doesn't need to use his flying ability to get to New York", which would mean, well, he doesn't need to use that ability throughout this trip.

But I think this is just splitting hairs now. Since you seem to agree with that Superboy(Kal-El) can hold his breath indefinitely

Also a separate topic.
Some more scene to support Superboy can hold his breath indefinitely(to support my previous statements that in his early appearances it mentioned many times he can hold his breath indefinitely)

It directly stated(again) he can hold his breath indefinitely(which I just used a few minutes to find it.)
https://ibb.co/3sy9kGg

And the post kryptonite-X Superman can hold his breath indefinitely. It's from a handbook. Mentioning that Superman once needed air-support equipments in order to travel in space, but later Superman's increased lung' capacity makes him can hold his breath indefinitely
https://ibb.co/ZJCYncx

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I must say I personally don't agree with your interpretation. The case I see here is more like

"John doesn't need to use his flying ability to get to New York", which would mean, well, he doesn't need to use that ability throughout this trip.

The point is that if you want to an expression to carry an explicit meaning you have to be sufficiently detailed. There's a difference between the meanings of the expressions "I can survive without air," and "I can't survive without air indefinitely."

Originally posted by Astner
This has no connection to what we're discussing.

The point is that if you want to an expression to carry an explicit meaning you have to be sufficiently detailed. There's a difference between the meanings of the expressions "I can survive without air," and "I can't survive without air indefinitely."

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Again, I personally don't agree with your stance in that point.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
But like I said, this is splitting hairs, since it seems you agreed that Superboy(Kal-El)'s scenes/scans fit what you request.

Even now all we can say is that it depends on the story.

The more constructive evidence in all of this was actually provided by Abhi, because it suggest that Superman can substitute air with sunlight. Which is so specific that I don't think it's ever been contradicted. Which makes it more definitive.

Originally posted by Astner
This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. We're not discussing the taste of a wine, we're discussing specific intricacies of the English language. You're still free to disagree with it, but that simply means you're wrong.

The point wasn't to figure out whether or not Superman could do it. It was whether or not this kind of evidence existed. Because people accepted this position despite not being fully justified by the evidence presented.

Even now all we can say is that it depends on the story.

The more constructive evidence in all of this was actually provided by Abhi, because it suggest that Superman can substitute air with sunlight. Which is so specific that I don't think it's ever been contradicted. Which makes it more definitive.

That has nothing to do with the argument. Superman being able to teleport (because of his White Sun amp) has nothing to do with whether or not he's able to survive indefinitely without air, which is what we're discussing.

Originally posted by Astner
This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. We're not discussing the taste of a wine, we're discussing specific intricacies of the English language. You're still free to disagree with it, but that simply means you're wrong.

The point wasn't to figure out whether or not Superman could do it. It was whether or not this kind of evidence existed. Because people accepted this position despite not being fully justified by the evidence presented.

Even now all we can say is that it depends on the story.

The more constructive evidence in all of this was actually provided by Abhi, because it suggest that Superman can substitute air with sunlight. Which is so specific that I don't think it's ever been contradicted. Which makes it more definitive.

Anyway, I provided the evidence you were asking for

Originally posted by Astner

So what I'm wondering is whether there's any actual evidence that contradicts scenes like the one above (and similar scenes) by clarifying beyond any reasonable doubt that he can hold his breath forever?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Do you mean this?

In his early appearances it mentioned many times he can hold his breath indefinitely

More Fun Comics 102
https://ibb.co/k5C9kFG

Superboy 9
https://ibb.co/qybmvNC

As for post X-kryptonite Superman, aside from the scans Abhi posted, I also remember I saw a scan states he can hold his breath indefinitely, but I don't remember the exact book, so I think I need to try search it

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Also a separate topic.
Some more scene to support Superboy can hold his breath indefinitely(to support my previous statements that in his early appearances it mentioned many times he can hold his breath indefinitely)

It directly stated(again) he can hold his breath indefinitely(which I just used a few minutes to find it.)
https://ibb.co/3sy9kGg

And the post kryptonite-X Superman can hold his breath indefinitely. It's from a handbook. Mentioning that Superman once needed air-support equipments in order to travel in space, but later Superman's increased lung' capacity makes him can hold his breath indefinitely
https://ibb.co/ZJCYncx

And you agreed that sunlight can substitute for air in Superman's case.

As for the "Even now all we can say is that it depends on the story." part, the problem is you literally asked just one confirmation

Originally posted by Astner

What I'm asking for is a claim like "survive without air indefinitely," or something that makes it unambiguously clear that it is forever. And one confirmation is enough, because then you can say that at least one author thinks he can.

So yeah, I think the point(at least the initial point) you were making is to give you just one instance that Superman can hold his breath indefinitely, which both me and Abhi have given to you

Originally posted by Astner
That has nothing to do with the argument. Superman being able to teleport (because of his White Sun amp) has nothing to do with whether or not he's able to survive indefinitely without air, which is what we're discussing.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Do you ever feel that you may be a bit patronizing and stubborn?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Anyway, I provided the evidence you were asking for

And you agreed that sunlight can substitute for air in Superman's case.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
As for the "Even now all we can say is that it depends on the story." part, the problem is you literally asked just one confirmation

So yeah, I think the point(at least the initial point) you were making is to give you just one instance that Superman can hold his breath indefinitely, which both me and Abhi have given to you

That said, I gave you an instance of Superman confirming that he needs to breathe. So all we can say is that it depends on the writer. This is the same conclusion you drew earlier in the thread.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Mongul "taught Superman" he doesn't need to breathe,

Originally posted by Astner
Yes. But how else am I suppose to act when someone is wrong and they don't want to acknowledge it?

Yes.

I don't understand the problem? I accepted the evidence you presented. That's not the same as a blanket concession of all my positions. In fact it's not a concession of any position because I never argued that the evidence didn't exist. All I did was request the evidence.

That said, I gave you an instance of Superman confirming that he needs to breathe. So all we can say is that it depends on the writer. This is the same conclusion you drew earlier in the thread.

When?

Originally posted by Astner
Yes. But how else am I suppose to act when someone is wrong and they don't want to acknowledge it?

Yes.

I don't understand the problem. I accepted the evidence you presented. That's not the same as a blanket concession of all my positions. In fact it's not a concession of any position because I never argued that the evidence didn't exist. All I did was request the evidence.

That said, I gave you an instance of Superman confirming that he needs to breathe. So all we can say is that it depends on the writer. This is the same conclusion you drew earlier in the thread.

When?

😂

Where's this from?

Strange Academy: Miles Morales #1.

Thanks