Venezuelan migrant has message for socialism-lovers in USA

Originally posted by -Pr-
Venezuela isn't a purely socialist country. Neither is Sweden. Neither is Ireland. Or England. Or France. Or Italy. Or China. Or America.

Some of them might have socialist policies, but that's not the same thing. Nor is it the single reason any country fails.

Bad faith video.

The more socialism is integrated into a system - put another way, the less an economy relies on prices in favor of centralized planning, even if it's democratic - the more it is guaranteed to fail.

Socialism cannot work mathematically because it cannot perform cost calculation, which is absolutely necessary for the efficient allocation of resources and the factors of production.

Originally posted by ilikecomics
The more socialism is integrated into a system - put another way, the less an economy relies on prices in favor of centralized planning, even if it's democratic - the more it is guaranteed to fail.

Socialism cannot work mathematically because it cannot perform cost calculation, which is absolutely necessary for the efficient allocation of resources and the factors of production.

Let's say I agreed with you. Let's say I believed you were 100% correct and that we were on the same page. In theory anyway.

That still wouldn't be why Venezuela shat the bed.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Let's say I agreed with you. Let's say I believed you were 100% correct and that we were on the same page. In theory anyway.

That still wouldn't be why Venezuela shat the bed.

Try reading something like this,, and tell me why it's wrong.

https://mises.org/wire/data-shows-socialists-not-sanctions-destroyed-venezuelas-economy

Originally posted by ilikecomics
Try reading something like this,, and tell me why it's wrong.

https://mises.org/wire/data-shows-socialists-not-sanctions-destroyed-venezuelas-economy

I had a quick skim of it, and it seems to be saying that the Venezuelan economy isn't in the toilet because of, or at least purely because of, economic sanctions placed upon it by the US.

I would agree with that to an extent, sure.... but I don't see how that's relevant to what I said about socialism. If I'm missing something pretty plain, then please enlighten me.

What socialists usually do when you bring up an example of a failed socialist state (which is actually all of the countries that have tried it) is deflect by pointing to supposed shining examples of successful socialist countries.

Really though, there are none. As already mentioned, the nordic countries are not actually socialist. Socialism always ends in failure eventually and leaves everyone either dead, starving, or miserable.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I had a quick skim of it, and it seems to be saying that the Venezuelan economy isn't in the toilet because of, or at least purely because of, economic sanctions placed upon it by the US.

I would agree with that to an extent, sure.... but I don't see how that's relevant to what I said about socialism. If I'm missing something pretty plain, then please enlighten me.

It's addressing the idea the Venezuela failed from anything but communism.

The idea it was something done to them by the US is a popular take.

So in your view, if it's not communism or sanctions, what was it ?

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
What socialists usually do when you bring up an example of a failed socialist state (which is actually all of the countries that have tried it) is deflect by pointing to supposed shining examples of successful socialist countries.

Really though, there are none. As already mentioned, the nordic countries are not actually socialist. Socialism always ends in failure eventually and leaves everyone either dead, starving, or miserable.

👆 👆

The evidence is clear Capitalism > Socialism, every time.

The people advocating for Socialism are doing so based on feelings and/or they have an ulterior motive.

All of the Nordic countries are free-market and capitalist, where free enterprise is strongly encouraged and supported.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
All of the Nordic countries are free-market and capitalist, where free enterprise is strongly encouraged and supported.

👆 👆 😖mart: 😖mart:

The US did **** Venezuela, and they are partly to blame for the shit that’s happening.

The article I posted doesn't deny that, just that it didn't contribute Nearly as much as their socialist policies did.

Originally posted by ilikecomics
The article I posted doesn't deny that, just that it didn't contribute Nearly as much as their socialist policies did.

Wasn’t responding to you specifically, but I was adding that part because most Americans fails to address that point. The US has a history of stuffing itself in other Countries businesses.

Look at Haiti before the Clintons shoved their nose in it. It wasn’t rich, but it was managing just fine. Then the Clintons interfered, and Haiti collapsed pretty quickly.

I suppose if we're going to hold Venezuela up as the defining example of a socialist country then we should hold somewhere like Syria up as the defining example of capitalism as well.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
I suppose if we're going to hold Venezuela up as the defining example of a socialist country then we should hold somewhere like Syria up as the defining example of capitalism as well.

Originally posted by snowdragon
I think the missing element from most those discussions is the amount of taxes middle class and poor pay into the system, make no mistake USA hides taxes by taxing everything rather than a central tax system.

Defining socialism is central to a discussion for or against it, most countries with socialist policies aren't actually socialist.

As PR said every country is a blended system and there shouldn't be any problem with us emulating the parts of countries that work and help make people live better lives then here in the U.S.

And that is what the majority of progressive people want to do but conservatives want to get bogged down in a definition discussion.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
What socialists usually do when you bring up an example of a failed socialist state (which is actually all of the countries that have tried it) is deflect by pointing to supposed shining examples of successful socialist countries.

Really though, there are none. As already mentioned, the nordic countries are not actually socialist. Socialism always ends in failure eventually and leaves everyone either dead, starving, or miserable.

Yeah, except that you keep calling me a socialist when I'm not one. Are you not capable of having something at least approaching a grown-up conversation? Or is all you can do snip and snipe so you can come across as being an *******?

Originally posted by ilikecomics
It's addressing the idea the Venezuela failed from anything but communism.

The idea it was something done to them by the US is a popular take.

So in your view, if it's not communism or sanctions, what was it ?

Communism and socialism aren't the same thing, so I don't know why you brought that up.

It wasn't the US, though. Even if they contributed (whether they did or not, I can't say), Hugo Chavez and his legitimately stupid reign, and the consequences of which, is why I believe the country is the way it is more than any other factor. And he was no socialist.

Honestly though, I don't know what we're supposed to call him other than a greedy, incompetent imbecile.

Originally posted by Newjak
It's also true that the U.S. is not only capitalist either.

As PR said every country is a blended system and there shouldn't be any problem with us emulating the parts of countries that work and help make people live better lives then here in the U.S.

And that is what the majority of progressive people want to do but conservatives want to get bogged down in a definition discussion.

I'm sure Venezuela's problems in no way had anything to do with having absolutely enormous oil reserves and not allowing US companies to profit from those resources whilst paying almost zero taxes and wrecking their environment. I'm sure at no point did the US attempt to oust Venezuela's government and install someone more compliant with their geopolitical goals. I'm 100% certain that Venezuela's refusal to play ball did not result in any kind of economic punishment by the US that would include putting pressure on countries that trade with Venezuela to get them to stop cooperating with them because they definitely didn't do that with Cuba either.

Originally posted by Robtard
"This Venezuelan migrant has a message for pro-socialism Americans: Go to a socialist country and see it for yourselves. (Sorry, free-market Nordic welfare states don't count)."

😂

Don't count the countries where it works, only count the countries where other countries (ie the US) helped ensure there would be a complete shitshow. Oh Rightist...

That's right. We're happy with the strains of socialism mixed into our system here in Canada. The health care in particular. We never understand how this issue is a hill to die on politically down south.