He-Man vs Wonder Woman

Originally posted by h1a8
Heat rays don't necessarily travel at light speed. You have a bad habit of stating false things as if they are facts.
Lasers are irrelevant to the discussion.

That wasnt Superman.
You have to prove that particular HV was moving at light speed.
You have to prove that the character's eyes didn't glow first.

[list=1][*]You know that heat-rays and laser beams exist outside of fiction, right? That they both travel at lightspeed is an indisputible fact. It is not up for debate.

[*]But let us presume for the sake of argument, that the heat vision of Superman does not travel at the speed of light. He-Man has still deflected laserfire, which does. So your point is both wrong and totally irrelevant.

[*]It was duplicate of Superman down to the last atom, including his weakness to magic, which is how it was under the control of Skeletor.

[*]All of the eyes of the Justice League were glowing while under the magical control of Skeletor. That is no reason for He-Man to believe that any of them can project energy from their eyes. In fact, it is more of a reason to believe that none of them can.[/list]

Originally posted by h1a8
Fact1: Zoom was perceiving things at light speed or beyond.
Conclusion 1:Things like a bullet would be frozen to him.
Conclusion 2: It was impossible for WW to lasso him in that state of perception without moving at least near his perception speed.

Congratulations on reaching a false conclusion from valid premises. All that proves is that one does need to have superspeed to outwit an overconfident speedster, as has been demonstrated countless times throughout fiction.

Originally posted by h1a8
Because HV is not a laser and has nothing to do with the feat.

Heat rays and laser beams are real phenomena. Both are focused beams of energy, and both travel at the speed of light. The only difference is the wavelength used to deliver the energy, which affects the depth it penetrates surfaces.

I have to say....

What do you guys think of Batman dodging HV then?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I have to say....

What do you guys think of Batman dodging HV then?

I think it is poor writing.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I have to say....

What do you guys think of Batman dodging HV then?

About as much as I think of Wonder Woman lassoing Zoom.

Logically though HV is much more difficult to anticipate because it just comes out with a thought. There is no aim, trigger, fire. Unless the user wants to give that warning by glowing his eyes first.

With He-Man in particular though, it was clearly a speed/reaction feat because he had no clue what Supermans power set was. He must have literally moved faster than the HV, and he must have had the speed perception to see it coming.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I think it is poor writing.

But it happens. And Bats has done it before.

Many characters have deflected lasers, in fact.

Moreover, whilst Superman was magically cloned and was a complete copy of the real thing, it still isn't the real thing. Not to mention, crossovers are inadmissible, that was a copy of 'n52 Superman' (so weaker), mind-controlled, PLUS....he even says he was holding back (until He-Man kicked him in the chest).

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I think it is poor writing.

It is. It's also Batman.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
About as much as I think of Wonder Woman lassoing Zoom.

Logically though HV is much more difficult to anticipate because it just comes out with a thought. There is no aim, trigger, fire. Unless the user wants to give that warning by glowing his eyes first.

With He-Man in particular though, it was clearly a speed/reaction feat because he had no clue what Supermans power set was. He must have literally moved faster than the HV, and he must have had the speed perception to see it coming.

Same like WW with Darkseid - who she had just met for the first time and had no clue what he was (she even calls him giant):

And we know the Omega Beams were fast enough to chase Flash and hit Supes:
https://imgur.com/a/Yzszu

AND are able to change direction to hit their target. Yet WW was faster than the beams.

I mean, we both agree WW has the speed advantage, yeah? Now it all depends on WHAT she does with that speed advantage. As long as she has her lasso, it's a win for her.

He-man doesn't get lightspeed reactions for reacting to HV unless its explicitly stated in the panel to be that fast in that instance or a time frame for his reaction (in the nanosecond level) is given.

HV varies far too much writer to writer. Book to book. Even moment to moment. Just like Cyke's optic blasts.

Tagging Flash while he is mind controlled and talking can simply be chalked up to a CIS moment as opposed to a feat. Don't forget, Flash may be the fastest man alive, but he is also the dumbest when it comes to remembering his own basic abilities.

Even if we give he-man light speed reactions, and I'm ok with doing that through the battle cat statement, that is far too slow to beat WW.

I don't think he man would ever come close to the shattered god feat.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
He-man doesn't get lightspeed reactions for reacting to HV unless its explicitly stated in the panel to be that fast in that instance or a time frame for his reaction (in the nanosecond level) is given.

HV varies far too much writer to writer. Book to book. Even moment to moment. Just like Cyke's optic blasts.

Tagging Flash while he is mind controlled and talking can simply be chalked up to a CIS moment as opposed to a feat. Don't forget, Flash may be the fastest man alive, but he is also the dumbest when it comes to remembering his own basic abilities.

Even if we give he-man light speed reactions, and I'm ok with doing that through the battle cat statement, that is far too slow to beat WW.

I don't think he man would ever come close to the shattered god feat.

When WW lassoed Flash, he was at pretty high speeds too:
https://imgur.com/a/HxuUk

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I think it is poor writing.

That's Batman's super power, to his benefit of course.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Are you high? He specifically states to focus on the big blonde. And He-Man hits him from in front, not from behind.

Poor excuse given you cant even shoot Flash from behind, let alone from in front of him.

Cheap talk coming from a guy whose posted absolutely zero feats.

The reason I posted the feat is because no ones pulling a trigger, he had no idea Superman has that power, and he was approached from behind. It is obviously an impressive feat even if it isnt light speed.

This right after he punched Flash in the face.

Oh and in another comic he had not only competed against Injustice Superman but had him beat, before unexpectedly reverting back to Prince Adam.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
That's Batman's super power, to his benefit of course.

Cap can with lasers (after they've been fired):
https://i.imgur.com/xgsPD2u.jpg

Hell, Logan, caught unawares, is ABLE TO CUT A SHIELD for himself AFTER the laser was fire, lmao:
https://i.imgur.com/TO3pt1B.png

Nightwing:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_medium/11111/111114857/3076219-4273968768-super.jpg

I mean, Gambit....fricking Gambit...can do it, lol:
https://i.imgur.com/SDOTqyx.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Same like WW with Darkseid - who she had just met for the first time and had no clue what he was (she even calls him giant):

And we know the Omega Beams were fast enough to chase Flash and hit Supes:
https://imgur.com/a/Yzszu

AND are able to change direction to hit their target. Yet WW was faster than the beams.

I mean, we both agree WW has the speed advantage, yeah? Now it all depends on WHAT she does with that speed advantage. As long as she has her lasso, it's a win for her.

I agree thats at least equally as impressive. But no ones really denied Wonder Womans speed capabilities. I am however doubting she would speed blitz someone as fast and as strong as He-Man.

Originally posted by h1a8
I stand corrected.
But remember what I said? It's not the fact that you tag a speedster but that you tag them while they are using speed and reflexes that proves your speed.

Not really. Fact is there has to be some PIS/CIS involved, because both Flash and Zoom can blitz either WW or He-Man.

But even though they have been tagged by far less, I will give both He-Man and WW the benefit of the doubt that they must have moved much faster than bullets or sound to tag the speedsters even via PIS/CIS.

WW has tagged speedsters in situations where they were explicitly going FTL.

Doesn't matter if they could blitz her if they put a little more effort into it. That isn't the question. The question is were they using high levels of super speed when she tagged them and the answer is yes.

He man doesn't have that going for him in his Flash tagging example. Not to mention it was a mind controlled Flash that was standing and talking anyway.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But it happens. And Bats has done it before.

Many characters have deflected lasers, in fact.

Moreover, whilst Superman was magically cloned and was a complete copy of the real thing, it still isn't the real thing. Not to mention, crossovers are inadmissible, that was a copy of 'n52 Superman' (so weaker), mind-controlled, PLUS....he even says he was holding back (until He-Man kicked him in the chest).

I mean street levellers can dodge laser shots, the same way theyd dodge a gun shot. Anticipate their opponents moves. With He-Man though that was pretty impossible. And it is much harder against Eye beams if the user isnt holding back.

As for crossovers, pretty sure that whole He-Man series was published by DC. As for Superman holding back, he clearly gave no warning as to what kind of attack he was going to do, and even then he would hold back on the power of the HV, not its speed.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
WW has tagged speedsters in situations where they were explicitly going FTL.

Doesn't matter if they could blitz her if they put a little more effort into it. That isn't the question. The question is were they using high levels of super speed when she tagged them and the answer is yes.

He man doesn't have that going for him in his Flash tagging example. Not to mention it was a mind controlled Flash that was standing and talking anyway.

But again hows is hat different to Spider-Man tagging Quicksilver when QS was moving around at his top speeds ?

You expect a narrative to state He-Man deflected the HV in a Nano second, but you dont expect any narration or visual cue that WW moved at light speed.

Street levelers have plenty of examples of dodging lazers after fire as well. As opposed to just aim dodging every single instance.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Same like WW with Darkseid - who she had just met for the first time and had no clue what he was (she even calls him giant):

And we know the Omega Beams were fast enough to chase Flash and hit Supes:
https://imgur.com/a/Yzszu

AND are able to change direction to hit their target. Yet WW was faster than the beams.

I mean, we both agree WW has the speed advantage, yeah? Now it all depends on WHAT she does with that speed advantage. As long as she has her lasso, it's a win for her.

Flash and Superman tried to evade and I’m sure if they had the bracelets, they would have easily deflected the beams too. If we’re going by the chart dc released, WW is faster but if He-man goes Main stream then idk he has Super Strength on par with or just below Superman and his superspeed should be too.
When masters of the universe tussled with JLA he-man was fighting the big dog Superman and not WW.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I mean street levellers can dodge laser shots, the same way theyd dodge a gun shot. Anticipate their opponents moves. With He-Man though that was pretty impossible. And it is much harder against Eye beams if the user isnt holding back.

As for crossovers, pretty sure that whole He-Man series was published by DC. As for Superman holding back, he clearly gave no warning as to what kind of attack he was going to do, and even then he would hold back on the power of the HV, not its speed.

But again hows is hat different to Spider-Man tagging Quicksilver when QS was moving around at his top speeds ?

You expect a narrative to state He-Man deflected the HV in a Nano second, but you dont expect any narration or visual cue that WW moved at light speed.

Thats because zoom was already moving and perceiving events at light speed or beyond. Fast characters dont always operate with speed and perceptions. But in this case we have proof of it.