MI5 worried about online toxic right wing ideology grooming kids on sites like Discor

Originally posted by -Pr-
When you have to say "within x group", and that group is an obvious minority, that honestly kills any argument of it being normalised. To me at least.

Which time? We get a lot of racism and intolerance.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
I'm going to disagree because a constant push of a narrative normalises it to be discussed in all groups. Q is an example of this as are anti vaxxers. Jan 6 and it's online support from many young video gamers is the kind of outcome expected by the promoters/groomers. Youtube algorithms even lock them in and drag them down the rabbit hole.

You can discuss anything, as long as you condemn the things that should be condemned. And I think people generally do do that. That prevents it being normalised outside those groups.

Inside those groups? The KKK thinking racism is nifty doesn't normalise shit for the rest of society, so I don't see what the issue is as long as they're rightfully condemned by the people that should be doing it.

"Many young gamers" is really disingenuous, tbh. And it just sounds like you're looking for a boogeyman when any "gamers" that supported Jan 6th are a relatively tiny minority.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You can discuss anything, as long as you condemn the things that should be condemned. And I think people generally do do that. That prevents it being normalised outside those groups.

Inside those groups? The KKK thinking racism is nifty doesn't normalise shit for the rest of society, so I don't see what the issue is as long as they're rightfully condemned by the people that should be doing it.

"Many young gamers" is really disingenuous, tbh. And it just sounds like you're looking for a boogeyman when any "gamers" that supported Jan 6th are a relatively tiny minority.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
But how often do we see it rejected when say a member posts something racist in the comics section and a small group jump on it, very rarely is it confronted.

If it's bad enough and we see it, it gets confronted. The question is what is and isn't bad enough. That's not always so clear. What's offensive to you might not be offensive to me, and what's offensive to me might not be offensive to you.

I'm not going to say we're perfect. We're not. But we try.

Originally posted by -Pr-
If it's bad enough and we see it, it gets confronted. The question is what is and isn't bad enough. That's not always so clear. What's offensive to you might not be offensive to me, and what's offensive to me might not be offensive to you.

I'm not going to say we're perfect. We're not. But we try.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
I'm not getting at the mods and Policing I'm getting at (I admit this) the tacit normalised misogyny and racism prevalent on the internet. It wasn't this way 15 years ago, or even four. These people became further empowered to spread their vileness through support of Trump and Boris among the English speaking world. With the excuse they are only joking. The young are particularly susceptible to this collective humour.

What you're talking about is a consequence of the internet in general. We can't have all of this positive "bringing people together" stuff without the negative. Social media has contributed massively to this, but again, that's a "you can't have the good without the bad without seriously hamstringing the good" thing.

The young are impressionable. Yes. That's been true since the dawn of time. But acting like it's the government's job to fix it is dodgy, imo. It's parents. It's schools. It's society as a whole that needs to be better. You won't get there through mass surveillance and invasions of privacy, which is what bringing in government entities like this inevitably leads to.

Originally posted by -Pr-
What you're talking about is a consequence of the internet in general. We can't have all of this positive "bringing people together" stuff without the negative. Social media has contributed massively to this, but again, that's a "you can't have the good without the bad without seriously hamstringing the good" thing.

The young are impressionable. Yes. That's been true since the dawn of time. But acting like it's the government's job to fix it is dodgy, imo. It's parents. It's schools. It's society as a whole that needs to be better. You won't get there through mass surveillance and invasions of privacy, which is what bringing in government entities like this inevitably leads to.

I question positivity from social media. I question it brings anyone together.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
I'm not getting at the mods and Policing I'm getting at (I admit this) the tacit normalised misogyny and racism prevalent on the internet. It wasn't this way 15 years ago, or even four. These people became further empowered to spread their vileness through support of Trump and Boris among the English speaking world. With the excuse they are only joking. The young are particularly susceptible to this collective humour.

😆

Man, if you think that you haven't known a lot of Americans.

I can remember being in a single file line as a single digit kid way back in the late 1980's and the boys going "GRAB HER ASS!"

Originally posted by cdtm
😆

Man, if you think that you haven't known a lot of Americans.

I can remember being in a single file line as a single digit kid way back in the late 1980's and the boys going "GRAB HER ASS!"

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
People couldn't be in the youngsters bedroom until recently giving then ideas they keep secret from their parents in formative years.

I question positivity from social media. I question it brings anyone together.

Are you kidding me gangsta rap and video games were on that track before the rise of the internet 😉

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
People couldn't be in the youngsters bedroom until recently giving then ideas they keep secret from their parents in formative years.

I question positivity from social media. I question it brings anyone together.

Right. That's the effect of the internet I was talking about.

You don't use it to keep in touch with relatives or friends in other countries? Using Facebook, shite that it is, is still much easier than having to use, say, the phone. Or write letters. Social media does a lot of bad shit too, and the companies are essentially the devil, but like any other tool it's not inherently good or bad.

IMHO the normalization of the topic seems like the twenty-first century equivalent of "boys being boys".

"yes sir, we know adolescent boys are rambunctious and brash, now let's get back to discussing your son's participation in a gang rape"

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
IMHO the normalization of the topic seems like the twenty-first century equivalent of "boys being boys".

"yes sir, we know adolescent boys are rambunctious and brash, now let's get back to discussing your son's participation in a gang rape"

Anyone who uses the "boys will be boys" defence for anything more than the shit five years olds do on the playground needs a kick in the teeth.

it's nice that we can agree on some things.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Right. That's the effect of the internet I was talking about.

You don't use it to keep in touch with relatives or friends in other countries? Using Facebook, shite that it is, is still much easier than having to use, say, the phone. Or write letters. Social media does a lot of bad shit too, and the companies are essentially the devil, but like any other tool it's not inherently good or bad.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
it's nice that we can agree on some things.

👆

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
WhatsApp and Skype are all I use I also have an excellent VOIP. Haven't used Facebook for 7 years now.

Right. So remember when you had a landline? And you had to keep a little notebook with all your phone numbers in it? And the whole issue with only one person being able to use it at a time? And then when the internet came along, you couldn't use the phone and it at the same time? Then remember how good it was that mobile phones came along and you could store all your contacts in that phone for easy texting?

I honestly think that social media, as a concept, is just an extension of that. It's just been used, or rather, abused, to become something it really shouldn't be,

I disagree about the relevance of facebook being inherently good/bad/neutral. if people are allowed to broadcast dangerous material, unmoderated, they were enabled to do so by the site owners. if someone hung a nazi flag on a restaurant wall, and the proprietor just left it flying on their wall for months, I think opinions would be different

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Not what's being discussed, back to topic.

You just said the internet is corrupting impressionable young youth with misogynies.

And I'm telling you in my experiences, which come well before the internet was a thing in every home, misogyny was about as common as turning random sticks into guns in play.

Your "groomers" are probably mostly 9 and 10 year old kids themselves.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
I disagree about the relevance of facebook being inherently good/bad/neutral. if people are allowed to broadcast dangerous material, unmoderated, they were enabled to do so by the site owners. if someone hung a nazi flag on a restaurant wall, and the proprietor just left it flying on their wall for months, I think opinions would be different

I knew a guy who actually did that. Nobody really cared, his place his rules.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
I disagree about the relevance of facebook being inherently good/bad/neutral. if people are allowed to broadcast dangerous material, unmoderated, they were enabled to do so by the site owners. if someone hung a nazi flag on a restaurant wall, and the proprietor just left it flying on their wall for months, I think opinions would be different

Not sure I see what you mean.

Facebook as a site is one thing. The behaviour of the people that run it is another. And again, what you consider dangerous or offensive isn't always going to be what I might. Sure, there are the extremes that everyone can agree are shitty, but they're not the only kind of objectionable content.