Lucifer Morningstar vs. The Endless

Just saw this...

Originally posted by Astner
Lucifer wasn't depowered, or at the very least not considerably so.

Originally posted by Astner
He didn't accomplish it through brute force. In fact he explicitly tried and failed. So attributing it to his power seems disingenious.

At any rate, that section of my post was simply me highlighting one of the reasons why Lucifer should be higher than Destiny on the totem pole.

However, Lucifer v3 does state that he could just outright kill Destiny if he wanted to:
https://i.imgur.com/dnTHbVt.jpg

Granted that's not "Carey's" Lucifer(as specified in the OP)... But even Carey himself stated that Lucifer was the second most powerful being in the whole of creation(with #1 obviously being Yahweh):
https://i.imgur.com/DiURo5T.jpg

...So it's probably safe to assume that Carey-Lucifer could have destroyed Destiny as well.

Originally posted by Astner
In terms of raw power Lucifer should be more powerful, but it's not as black-and-white as you're making it seem.

Who knows what other mischief people have been having with Galan's posts in his absence???

I heard Galan say he was at full health and could do a backflip.

My back would shatter on impact if I attempted such a feat. 👆

Lucifer appears bound to the Book of Destiny. So one of the other Endless could rewrite Lucifer or completely write him out. It's cheating but it would be a win?

Originally posted by Astner
disingenious.

Originally posted by ODG
Lucifer appears bound to the Book of Destiny. So one of the other Endless could rewrite Lucifer or completely write him out. It's cheating but it would be a win?

And this also assumes:
-That the Endless would even try to use such a tactic in the first place.
-That the other members of the Endless even have the power to alter the Book of Destiny in such a way.
-That Lucifer would just stand there and allow the Endless to do so before attacking/killing them.

Originally posted by ODG
Lucifer appears bound to the Book of Destiny. So one of the other Endless could rewrite Lucifer or completely write him out. It's cheating but it would be a win?

Lucifer escaped the destiny imposed by The Presence himself, he's arguably outside of fate.

And you'd need to prove Destiny can even control fate at that level.

He's hardly the only Fate broker, as the Kindly One's deal in threads of fate (With no real indication of whether they or Destiny merely read it, or control it.)

^ It's entirely ooc for Destiny to make alterations to his own Book, so it would *have* to be one of the other members of the Endless... But it's probably just as ooc for other members of the Endless to ask Destiny if they can alter his Book, tbh(especially to such an extreme.)

Regardless, even IF Destiny willingly handed over his Book to one of the Endless, and even IF said Endless had the power to completely retcon Lucifer from every page of the Book, they would still have to do so before Lucifer attacked/killed them(which seems unlikely to me.)

Originally posted by Galan007
If v3 is any indication then it could potentially work, I guess. However, they would have to erase every single one of Lucifer's "entries" throughout the entirety of the Book... Which is no small task in its own right, given that Lucifer has existed since the dawn of creation. So they'd literally have to erase billions of years worth of references and whatnot, on a page-by-page basis.

And this also assumes:
-That the Endless would even try to use such a tactic in the first place.
-That the other members of the Endless even have the power to alter the Book of Destiny in such a way.
-That Lucifer would just stand there and allow the Endless to do so before attacking/killing them.

That first point is quite important. Iirc Destiny explicitly said he would never actually alter the book.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ It's entirely ooc for Destiny to make alterations to his own Book, so it would *have* to be one of the other members of the Endless... But it's probably just as ooc for other members of the Endless to ask Destiny if they can alter his Book, tbh(especially to such an extreme.)

Regardless, even IF Destiny willingly handed over his Book to one of the Endless, and even IF said Endless had the power to completely retcon Lucifer from every page of the Book, they would still have to do so before Lucifer attacked/killed them(which seems unlikely to me.)

Also keep in mind Death also has dominion over him, yet was clearly scared of him.

So who knows how much sway they really have.

if it were in a comic the endless would plead with destiny for permission to rewrite his book, and he'd say "no". destiny isn't biased one way or the other, even in the face of obliteration. he just acts exactly as his book directs.

the book is literally a text version of the presence's plan, from start to finish. to rewrite the book is to rewrite the word of god. so not only should that take a VERY high level of power to do (could other characters from the endless family even do it at all??), but it's not something that destiny would even allow unless it was part of a predetermined set of events already written in his book.

in v3 destiny allowed lucifer to write himself out of the book because he knew the void lucifer left behind would eventually be filled. god's plan is circular that way.

but in carey's series lucifer actually did escape god's plan at the end, so he was no longer a part of destiny's book. and unlike what happened in v3, lucifer didnt have to destroy himself to do it.

^ Where was the Presence’s plan equated to the Book of Destiny during Carey’s run?

Originally posted by Galan007
If v3 is any indication then it could potentially work, I guess. However, they would have to erase every single one of Lucifer's "entries" throughout the entirety of the Book... Which is no small task in its own right, given that Lucifer has existed since the dawn of creation. So they'd literally have to erase billions of years worth of references and whatnot, on a page-by-page basis.

And this also assumes:
-That the Endless would even try to use such a tactic in the first place.
-That the other members of the Endless even have the power to alter the Book of Destiny in such a way.
-That Lucifer would just stand there and allow the Endless to do so before attacking/killing them.

Originally posted by ODG
^ Where was the Presence's plan equated to the Book of Destiny during Carey's run?

Originally posted by ODG
Was Lucifer ever shown or implied to be above Death?

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX

here-
https://postimg.cc/YLpZj35b

Originally posted by zopzop
That scan defies all logic unless Death of the Endless isn't the "True" Death.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
here-
https://postimg.cc/wy5n6PG1

here-
https://postimg.cc/YLpZj35b

Ah, forgot that part.

If Death has no dominion over the brothers, than i wonder who took Michael when he died.

^ Upon Michael's death, he was essentially just a hollow/powerless husk, as he had passed the sum total of his Demiurgic power(the power of God) to Elaine.

So perhaps if Michael and Lucifer are significantly(or completely) depowered, they can be collected by Death... But if they're at(or at least close to) full power, then yeah, the implication is that Death really can't touch them.

Originally posted by zopzop
That scan defies all logic unless Death of the Endless isn't the "True" Death.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
why? lucifer is just a much higher order of being, and also embodies the will of god. he SHOULD be able to tell death to f*ck off if she tries to take him.