Superman vs. Gladiator, Hyperion, Sentry and Count Nefaria

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Phil brought it up as a warm-up. So h1's statement - that the femtosecond feat is THE most impressive - doesn't exclude Phil's, which is here is AN impressive feat.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Moreover, what's your demarcation line for nonsense?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Do you look at mutant powers and allow physical mutations (fur/claws) then ignore weather manipulation?

When reading X-Men we accept that Storm can manipulate the weather. But we don't accept that she could dodge mid-flight bullets on reaction.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hence the full capacity rule. Plus, inconsistencies occur in EVERY period, with EVERY character.

100% by definition is full capacity.

And like I argued, inconsistencies go both ways. Quantity should never be seen as a substitute for quality.

That’s not how the full capacity rule operates.

Originally posted by Smurph
That’s not how the full capacity rule operates.

That said, if what I think you imply is the case, then it's a bad idea. Because it would make Respect Threads more reliable than the comics.

Like I said, go with consistent high-ends. If Bob Whathisname moves planets half a dozen times in a few years, but has trouble lifting a mountain once or twice, ignore the latter. But if he moves a planet only once or twice and has trouble lifting mountains many more times, ignore the former.

Of course there is a lot of ambiguity with this method sometimes, but not really any more than with any other method.

Originally posted by Astner
If it is an impressive feat by Superman's standards and Gladiator does something comparable then what's the problem?

Because it is a warm-up feat from Supes, and you are saying it is comparable to Gladiator's best....

When two valid but different interpretation of a feat yield completely different results.

I don't have an issue with magic or supernatural phenomena as long as it's part of the narrative.

When reading X-Men we accept that Storm can manipulate the weather. But we don't accept that she could dodge mid-flight bullets on reaction.

So how would DNA mutations, differences in your genetic code, enable you to control weather? The EM spectrum, talk to the universe as if it were a living being? If you can't explain it, do you throw it out? I mean, you throw the previous feat out because 'they can't talk in that timeframe' - but it's a basic trope of storytelling, as EndlessMike said.

Never-mind I missed it. But it doesn't rule out any of the two feats I posted.

Originally posted by Digi
Full Capacity

It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

Originally posted by Astner
Well, if there are official rules then they're not readily avalible because they're not pinned on the front page.

That said, if what I think you imply is the case, then it's a bad idea. Because it would make Respect Threads more reliable than the comics.

Check the front page. It's linked in the pinned page.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Like I said, go with consistent high-ends. If Bob Whathisname moves planets half a dozen times in a few years, but has trouble lifting a mountain once or twice, ignore the latter. But if he moves a planet only once or twice and has trouble lifting mountains many more times, ignore the former.

Of course there is a lot of ambiguity with this method sometimes, but not really any more than with any other method.

Agreed, especially comics this medium(not saying anime/manga don't have the same problem, but certainly not at the same levels as comics)

This part I tend to agree with Astner and you here

Originally posted by Astner
Well, if there are official rules then they're not readily avalible because they're not pinned on the front page.

That said, if what I think you imply is the case, then it's a bad idea. Because it would make Respect Threads more reliable than the comics.

Forum characters are a composite of their canon showings. The “full capacity rule” refers to the composite character acting at their full capacity. It’s not about whether a particular showing either low- or high-balls that capacity.

It’s a counterpart to the PIS rules. We try to get rid of showings where the plot crippled the character and we try to deal with a version of characters that know and use their full capacity. Imperfect system for an imperfect medium.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Like I said, go with consistent high-ends. If Bob Whathisname moves planets half a dozen times in a few years, but has trouble lifting a mountain once or twice, ignore the latter. But if he moves a planet only once or twice and has trouble lifting mountains many more times, ignore the former.

Of course there is a lot of ambiguity with this method sometimes, but not really any more than with any other method.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because it is a warm-up feat from Supes, and you are saying it is comparable to Gladiator's best....

I have no trouble conceeding that Superman has a reaction feat greater than any of Gladiator's reaction feats.

Just as I have no trouble admitting that Hulk's best strength feat is orders of magnitude beyond anything Gladiator has shown. But they're still consistently comparable in strength, which is something that verified in the comics.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This sounds like you are considering each feat in isolation - but you are not.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But I am not talking about magic and supernatural phenomena, though. I am talking about the X-men, Children of the Atom - science based. You say that some feats are sillier than others, more nonsensical. You can explain some feats, but not others.

So how would DNA mutations, differences in your genetic code, enable you to control weather? The EM spectrum, talk to the universe as if it were a living being? If you can't explain it, do you throw it out? I mean, you throw the previous feat out because 'they can't talk in that timeframe' - but it's a basic trope of storytelling, as EndlessMike said.

Originally posted by Astner
Is it really fair to use a nonsensical feat? In a fraction of a nanosecond the sound of their voices wouldn't even be carried a ten-thousandth of an inch, let alone the distance required to reach the ears of the others.

That's your critique on this? Seriously?

I was thinking feats of big three: A destructive feat, a durability feat, and a speed feat.

And we're not going to wrangle here with warm-ups and whatnot. You post the feats you consider to be the absolute best feats of these categories and I'll respond.

Also, we're talking about Rebirth Superman, not Pre-Crisis. Superman has only been around for ten to twenty years according to the timescale,

Marvel characters are around for less time than that due to the sliding timescale 🤷🤷

Originally posted by Astner
Yes, but not all silly feats are equally nonsensical. This is where the suspension of disbeleif comes in. In this case, the characters in the thread can counteract Newton's second law with flight. But having a conversation in a fraction of a nanosecond can't be explained in a similar way.

I'm not dismissing the feat, but it's a very peculiar request because it's not a feat that would get past editors today.

The intention of the writer never matters. What matters is how it's written.

Phil would not have brought up the nanosecond conversation for Silver Age Superman if he didn't consider it impressive. Which proves my point.

The point of my argument was to show that consistently they're comparable. Now Superman has a lot more appearances than Gladiator, so he's going to have a lot more high showings, but he's also going to have a lot more low showings.

That said, Gladiator's blink-punch would be just as an impressive for Superman as it was for Gladiator.

This isn't silver age Superman, that's Byrne Superman.

Originally posted by Astner
It's a moot point, because Clark is currently dead, so we're not going to get any more feats from him for a while.

And inconsitencies is not a one-way street.

- Superman (2011) #13

- Superman: The Doomsday Wars

Superman can bench press the weight equivallent to the mass of the planet, but he also struggles to lift 775,000 lbs?

And the worst part is that you don't get to choose.

Why would anyone in their right mind want to introduce this mess?

cough cough cosair, cough cough cannonball, cough cough colossus

Originally posted by Astner
It's a moot point, because Clark is currently dead, so we're not going to get any more feats from him for a while.

And inconsitencies is not a one-way street.

- Superman (2011) #13

- Superman: The Doomsday Wars

Superman can bench press the weight equivallent to the mass of the planet, but he also struggles to lift 775,000 lbs?

And the worst part is that you don't get to choose.

Why would anyone in their right mind want to introduce this mess?

It's funny how you bring up inconsistencies AFTER using Gladiator's God blink flying feat.

Originally posted by Astner
Yes, but by your own concession it was an impressive feat for Superman, and Gladiator rivaled that.

Originally posted by Astner
Phil would not have brought up the nanosecond conversation for Silver Age Superman if he didn't consider it impressive. Which proves my point.

The point of my argument was to show that consistently they're comparable. Now Superman has a lot more appearances than Gladiator, so he's going to have a lot more high showings, but he's also going to have a lot more low showings.

I never said it wasn't impressive - I said it was comparing a 'low-end' impressive feat, with the highest of the high. If someone runs the 100m, and it's their PB, and it's comparable to Usain Bolt warming up...

Or to use another analogy, if my PB in weightlifting is equal to an Olympic lifter's warmup routine, is that 'comparable'?

I'm not looking at any particular feat here.

When two valid but different interpretation of a feat yield completely different results.

These are conditions you accept as you enter the stoy, it's fantasy. Storm can manipulate the wheather, this is established from the get-go. But that's not a freecard against common sense. The planets are still orbiting the Sun in Marvel.

bruh gladiator and hyperion are already good match ups for superman on their own, and adding them together on top of high trans guys like sentry and count nefaria

how is this not a mismatch?

Originally posted by YAYIMAGOD2323
bruh gladiator and hyperion are already good match ups for superman on their own, and adding them together on top of high trans guys like sentry and count nefaria

how is this not a mismatch?

bruh hur dur back to comicvine you go

Originally posted by Astner
Is it really fair to use a nonsensical feat? In a fraction of a nanosecond the sound of their voices wouldn't even be carried a ten-thousandth of an inch, let alone the distance required to reach the ears of the others.

I was thinking feats of big three: A destructive feat, a durability feat, and a speed feat.

And we're not going to wrangle here with warm-ups and whatnot. You post the feats you consider to be the absolute best feats of these categories and I'll respond.

Also, we're talking about Rebirth Superman, not Pre-Crisis. Superman has only been around for ten to twenty years according to the timescale,

Originally posted by Astner
Phil would not have brought up the nanosecond conversation for Silver Age Superman if he didn't consider it impressive.

The reason I'm using warm-ups is because I have read all of the appearances, ever, of any character in this thread -- so I know all of their feats.

So I'm just going to use the bare minimum to show you how far off they are, and show the true absurdity of this statements:

Originally posted by Astner
but Gladiator and Hyperion are by themselves a match for Superman

Originally posted by Astner
Gladiator and Hyperion both have showings that contend with Superman's best showings.

You'll have to earn your way into the top 20, then top 15, then top 10 feats of Superman for each category.

I could be taking the piss here and start posting Superman's speed feats where he vibrates intangible, invisible, changes the frequency of planets and the like, but I want to at least give you a chance to find their level for the 'simplified' version of abilities like speed.

Or do you want me to see how they match Superman's versatility? To see you "flex" Gladiator and Hyperion's versatility and how it matches "Superman's best"? I'm willing to let this slide, but.. Just say the word 🙂

As of right now, I'll still be waiting for feats from both Gladiator and Hyperion matching or exceeding this, then we can maybe move on from the weakest Superman.

Hm, but wait..

Originally posted by Astner
I have no trouble conceeding that Superman has a reaction feat greater than any of Gladiator's reaction feats.

Already?

And not even an ounce of Hyperion?

Ok. So early post-Crisis Superman is faster than Gladiator and Hyperion. Cool.

Edit:
I also see we went from "Gladiator and Hyperion by themselves can match Superman and his best feats" to "...uhm....in these 3 specific categories" -- you should have included that as a "ASStner post interpretation" footnote.