Originally posted by Endless Mike
That does make things more confusing. But how do they explain the instances where a character's backstory is completely different from one incarnation to another? Like how Egg Fu went from an egg-shaped Chinese guy to a computer from Apokolips?
Also to add to qwerty...
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah.Death Metal made clear it was all one timeline now:
Then the latest Superman Red/Blue comic showcased this, as Superman remembers (and the editor, Jamie Rich, directly confirms it) doing something in World's Finest 192-193, which was released in 1970 (i.e. pre Crisis):
Originally posted by carver9
So if I show you otherwise that Superman wouldn't have weathered Anni-Hulk blows, will you stop? Remember, Red Cloud, someone who doesn't have a single strength ft was about to choke Superman to death with her bare hands. Physically kill him and he couldn't do anything and there isn't a shed of proof she is on Anni-Hulk strength tier. What else you got?Also, Doomsday just recently mauled Superman, lol, and he had help from Diana.
Superman’s average is far above Gladiators. If you go back 40 years, would you even be able to find 5 good battle showings for Gladiator? You could probably go back 2 years and likely find 10 for Superman.
I chose to use opponents that crash Gladiator’s party. Do you think that if given a second shot at it that Gladiator would come out on top in the Anni-Hulk battle? Even though waking from a KO, Tyrant would have never 2 pieced Superman.
Looking at the way that he dealt with the Phoenix Five, would you feel safe in pitting Gladiator up against a Darkseid Avatar? Doomsday? The Justice League? How well would he do against Brainiac? Bizzaro? What if I took it down a notch and asked how he’d do against the Elite? Could he even beat the New Mutants?
If Gambit could fold Gladiator, what do you think a serious punch from Superman would do to him? Was that a low showing? I did use heigh showings as well, but the threat levels were above anything that Gladiator can, or has ever dealt with.
Originally posted by carver9
Where does it say he is weakened? When was this mentioned? She is just able to PHYSICALLY choke the life from him. Also, again, Cheetah knocked him the FO with the God blade.
Wait.
Your scan shows him fighting Cheetah with the Godkiller sword.
Then you mention Cheetah has knocked him the FO with said sword.
Now you say he wasn't weakened after fighting....Cheetah with the sword and with others?
Are you drunk?
Originally posted by carver9Arguing that he wasn’t “softened up” is different than arguing about the meaning of “soften him up”
@Smurph, not in this case it doesn't because he wasn't weakened. The plan was to beat on Superman but help showed up which prevented that from happening. He had help from the JLA and other supers. So, no, he wasn't weakened.
A plan to soften Superman is a plan to weaken Superman. Those are synonyms here. You can argue that the plan failed, but it’s a different point.
Originally posted by carver9
@Smurph, not in this case it doesn't because he wasn't weakened. The plan was to beat on Superman but help showed up which prevented that from happening. He had help from the JLA and other supers. So, no, he wasn't weakened.
Can you show me why you believe that Anni-Hulk would defeat Superman? Tell me why Superman would be defeated by Masterson Thor with the assist from Wonder Man. At the full height of full capacity, we lose what is commonly perceived as the average. We are supposed to be using them at their best non-amplified normal range. So, if we see Superman lose a battle, which is not the war. That loss does not count against him. Why would it if he goes onto win the war? You follow me?
You bring up Red Cloud, but what about Brainiac? Darkseid? His ability to last against Doomsday, while Gladiator was ass raped and gagged while up against Anni-Hulk.
Let the truth set you free brother.
Originally posted by Stoic
Can you show me why you believe that Anni-Hulk would defeat Superman? Tell me why Superman would be defeated by Masterson Thor with the assist from Wonder Man. At the full height of full capacity, we lose what is commonly perceived as the average. We are supposed to be using them at their best non-amplified normal range. So, if we see Superman lose a battle, which is not the war. That loss does not count against him. Why would it if he goes onto win the war? You follow me?You bring up Red Cloud, but what about Brainiac? Darkseid? His ability to last against Doomsday, while Gladiator was ass raped and gagged while up against Anni-Hulk.
Let the truth set you free brother.
Because Superman stalemated against someone who isn't as powerful as Ann Hulk, Damage. Or him losing to Kalibak... he have his loses against weaker beings.
Guess you didn't read the Masterson fight. Gladiator was standing over a limped Masterson and Living Lightning was flying by. Thor controlled living lightning and snuck attacked Gladiator in the back and it stunned him. After that, Masterson pounded on him. Before this, Masterson was getting destroyed.
Also, Masterson is magical, strong AF and powerful. He have the power to defeat Superman. Let me know if you need scans proving this.
I've never said Gladiator would pull a majority against Supes but he can most def win. Darkseid has defeated Superman. They just fought and Supes wasn't doing so well. What Brainiac fight are you talking about? Are you talking about DOS Doomsday? If so, Gladiator should be more than capable. What fight have Supes defeated Doomsday (no plot, please)?
Guess you forgot about Thanos saying Gladiator is the most dangerous on a team filled with high Heralds? Or Gladiator wrecking Beta Ray Bill. Or Gladiator choking Jane Thor to sleep with one hand. The same Jane that later fought the Phoenix Force. Then you talk about hanging with characters. Gladiator fought the entire Phoenix five members and temporarily held his own.
Originally posted by carver9 What fight have Supes defeated Doomsday (no plot, please)?
What is this supposed to mean?
Are you literally asking for stories in which there is no plot (which would be impossible, as 'Superman fights Doomsday and wins', simple as it is, is still technically a plot), or are you going to just reject every instance where Superman won by saying it was an act of plot or something?
Originally posted by Philosophía
I'm not sure what exactly you want it to be shown, since you formulated your answers as definite, as if you have sufficient knowledge to make any kind of assessment here, on any of the characters involved.Be that as it may, we have to start somewhere, let's try with an easy one, since speed was the topic here.
Here Superman operates at a level to have a casual extended conversation in a fraction of a nanosecond of time suspension with zero effort:
So, to get warmed up with the weakest incarnation of Superman, show me feats from:
Hyperion -
Gladiator -To match this, then we can advance as you match them.
Go.
I was thinking feats of big three: A destructive feat, a durability feat, and a speed feat.
And we're not going to wrangle here with warm-ups and whatnot. You post the feats you consider to be the absolute best feats of these categories and I'll respond.
Also, we're talking about Rebirth Superman, not Pre-Crisis. Superman has only been around for ten to twenty years according to the timescale,
Originally posted by Stoic
. So, if we see Superman lose a battle, which is not the war. That loss does not count against him. Why would it if he goes onto win the war? You follow me?Let the truth set you free brother.
I disagree. Mongul left supes ass-up knocked out, which resulted in many innocent lives taken by mongul. Later on we see supes finally defeat mongul using alternative methods. Just Because he won the war doesnt mean that earlier loss is erased. A loss is a loss. Or does this logic only apply to superman? Otherwise, let's not bring up blue marvel koing the sentry.
Originally posted by tkitna
What proof are you using? I dont remember him running away frpm characters like Genis, Owen, The Collective, or Blue Marvel. He didnt run when he was taking out Knulls Celestials, or Thor.Honestly, he usually runs away from himself or characters so far below him its laughable like Hammond Human Torch.
Yup. He went toe to toe with hulk till he burned out. He faced death/defeat against the avengers and didn't flee in siege. He stuck around after a heavy mental attack by doom. It's not a given.
Stoic, you're all over the place, bro.
Originally posted by Astner
Is it really fair to use a nonsensical feat? In a fraction of a nanosecond the sound of their voices wouldn't even be carried a ten-thousandth of an inch, let alone the distance required to reach the ears of the others.I was thinking feats of big three: A destructive feat, a durability feat, and a speed feat.
And we're not going to wrangle here with warm-ups and whatnot. You post the feats you consider to be the absolute best feats of these categories and I'll respond.
Also, we're talking about Rebirth Superman, not Pre-Crisis. Superman has only been around for ten to twenty years according to the timescale,
Yeah but comic time works differently to 'real' time - generally, that is (Hellblazer was an exception). Surely you must know this.
Originally posted by AstnerAlmost Every feat is nonsensical. For example, it's physically impossible for a human sized character to lift 100tons or punch someone into space without going through the the ground like a hot knife through butter.
Is it really fair to use a nonsensical feat? In a fraction of a nanosecond the sound of their voices wouldn't even be carried a ten-thousandth of an inch, let alone the distance required to reach the ears of the others.I was thinking feats of big three: A destructive feat, a durability feat, and a speed feat.
And we're not going to wrangle here with warm-ups and whatnot. You post the feats you consider to be the absolute best feats of these categories and I'll respond.
Also, we're talking about Rebirth Superman, not Pre-Crisis. Superman has only been around for ten to twenty years according to the timescale,
Gladiator best perception feat is like a punch thrown in a nanosecond. A femptosecond to a nanosecond is like a second compared to 11.57 days.
