Originally posted by Endless Mike
6. If you're counting Silver Age Superman feats, then he was just plain ridiculous and could likely win this with one hand tied behind his back.
The same I can't say for JBL though
Originally posted by Endless Mike
A few things:1. That map of the Marvel galaxies is not to scale. Andromeda is 220,000 light-years in diameter and over 2.5 million light-years away.
2. Speaking of Andromeda, it can be seen from Earth with the naked eye, so the claim that you can't see anything outside of the galaxy with the naked eye is false.
3. I have no problem with accepting that Superman was literally on the other side of the universe, although that could involve some margin of error. For example, one could say that Chicago is on the other side of the country from Salt Lake City, even though they are not at exact opposite ends of the country.
4. If the only reference for Vega being galaxies away is a vague 'galaxies pass as mere blurs' (especially since the page also states that it would have been a centuries-long journey without the spaceship, so if you assume that means at the speed of light, that's only talking about a few hundred light-years) and there are multiple references for Vega being in the same location as the RL star, 26 light-years from Earth, then the latter sounds much more reasonable, if no further evidence is presented.
5. If the characters' relative speeds are really too hard to determine, you could always just declare speed to be equal for the purposes of the match.
6. If you're counting Silver Age Superman feats, then he was just plain ridiculous and could likely win this with one hand tied behind his back.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Like I said, let me gather my scans, currently at work.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
2. Speaking of Andromeda, it can be seen from Earth with the naked eye, so the claim that you can't see anything outside of the galaxy with the naked eye is false.
Astner
Again, Top speed is not relevant in a fight. For example, it could take one 5 seconds to reach the level of speed Gladiator did (acceleration is key). It's all about speed within the first moment after starting from rest. In other words, battle speed.
Also a character will not move faster than what they can react to. For example, if I can move at the speed of light then I would only do so when there is enough space between me and objects where I can react to. I would not go light speed within 0.5km (battle distance) because I would just crash into the opponent. Gladiator has nanosecond reactions at best. That means he would not go faster if it takes less than a nanosecond to react to do so.
Originally posted by Astner
That comic is even older than the comic I cited, and you dismissed for being outdated.Also, just because "galaxies are mere blurs" as they travel there doesn't necessarily mean that they cross galaxies.
Also in the same series, Tamaran's Vega is the visible from Earth with the naked eye, which would not be possible if it was part of another galaxy.
- New Teen Titans (1980) #3
Well writers had little to no science background back then. They wrote stupid shit in 1980. You can't see planets in other star systems with the naked eye nor can you see other stars in another galaxy. So that scan is unusable as any type of evidence.
Originally posted by h1a8
Astner
Again, Top speed is not relevant in a fight. For example, it could take one 5 seconds to reach the level of speed Gladiator did (acceleration is key). It's all about speed within the first moment after starting from rest. In other words, battle speed.
The problem with your interpretation is that acceleration is directional. You can't build up velocity in one direction and then magically carry that over to another direction. So if he built up velocity he'd have to do it in Heimdall's direction, meaning that he'd have to know when Heimdall was going to blink. Which doesn't make sense.
Originally posted by h1a8
Well writers had little to no science background back then. They wrote stupid shit in 1980. You can't see planets in other star systems with the naked eye nor can you see other stars in another galaxy. So that scan is unusable as any type of evidence.
Originally posted by Astner
We're interpreting the feat differently then. The way I interpret it is that he's reacting to Heimdall's blink to then accelerate across the galaxies in his direction to knock him down.The problem with your interpretation is that acceleration is directional. You can't build up velocity in one direction and then magically carry that over to another direction. So if he built up velocity he'd have to do it in Heimdall's direction, meaning that he'd have to know when Heimdall was going to blink. Which doesn't make sense.
I'm not sure if this critique is any less accurate now. But at the same time I don't think it's valid.
Originally posted by Astner
We're interpreting the feat differently then. The way I interpret it is that he's reacting to Heimdall's blink to then accelerate across the galaxies in his direction to knock him down.The problem with your interpretation is that acceleration is directional. You can't build up velocity in one direction and then magically carry that over to another direction. So if he built up velocity he'd have to do it in Heimdall's direction, meaning that he'd have to know when Heimdall was going to blink. Which doesn't make sense.
I'm not sure if this critique is any less accurate now. But at the same time I don't think it's valid.
So that's a made up speculation.
To add
Heimdall is not a speedster. Heimdall even saw Gladiator coming (he said, "NO" before Gladiator reached Asgard. That means, assuming Heimdall did blink, then his blink was faster than it to Gladiator to reach Asgard.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Considering he wasn't able to blitz Jane Thor from behind no less in the same issue, his starting speed does not seem good.
That said, Jane isn't a slowpoke either.
- Mighty Thor (2016) #5
My point is that despite having far fewer appearances, Gladiator and Hyperion both have showings that contend with Superman's best showings.
So the idea that they're consistently weaker than Superman is completely unfounded.
Originally posted by Astner
If it wasn't clear, I don't think it's a consistent feat.That said, Jane isn't a slowpoke either.
Compared to Superman, she is a snail.
- Mighty Thor (2016) #5
What's so great about punching across planets and then flying afterwards?
My point is that despite having far fewer appearances, Gladiator and Hyperion both have showings that contend with Superman's best showings.
No, they don't. Their best feats are Superman's average feats.
So the idea that they're consistently weaker than Superman is completely unfounded.
Post Crisis Superman maybe. Current Superman? They don't even compare.
Superman beats the three clones, and talks the Sentry down after withstanding everything that he can throw at him. This version of the Sentry has been floored twice. Blue Marvel, and the Hulk.
Originally posted by Astner
If it wasn't clear, I don't think it's a consistent feat.That said, Jane isn't a slowpoke either.
- Mighty Thor (2016) #5
My point is that despite having far fewer appearances, Gladiator and Hyperion both have showings that contend with Superman's best showings.
So the idea that they're consistently weaker than Superman is completely unfounded.
Gladiator may be able to keep up in terms of speed, but his durability against Superman’s best punches are terrible. Anni-Hulk. Did you see how he was nearly torn apart? Tyrant two pieced him. Yes Superman is that strong as well. Do you think that Gambit can hit harder than Superman does with a charged deck of cards? That put Gladiator to sleep.
Superman would break Gladiator very fast. I mean really go back and see how brutal the beating that Anni-Hulk gave him. Marvel had a dying Hulk beat the starch out of Gladiator. Look at his track record. There are even more times that he was humbled, but I’m only using characters that an average non sun dipped Superman can hang with. Every member of the Phoenix Five would cave Gladiator’s head in. He’s nowhere near powerful enough to go toe to toe with the Starbrand.
Who can Gladiator beat? Terrax? Based upon his performance with Black Dwarf, even that may be too much for Gladiator.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Compared to Superman, she is a snail.What's so great about punching across planets and then flying afterwards?
The few times it has come close, like when Helspont backhanded him to the moon, it ended up with Superman in a concussion.
- Superman (2011) Annual #1
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, they don't. Their best feats are Superman's average feats.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Post Crisis Superman maybe. Current Superman? They don't even compare.
Originally posted by Astner
This is on a completely different scale than Superman's fights.The few times it has come close, like when Helspont backhanded him to the moon, it ended up with Superman in a concussion.
- Superman (2011) Annual #1
😂
Superman and Mongul punched each other across solar systems and leave nearby planets cracked by their attacks.
His fight with Rogol Zaar and Zod shakes the entire phantom zone.
What comics are you reading?
The ones you are not.
Current Superman? Are you talking about Jon? Because Clark is dead.
I mean after Rebirth.
