Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Well, we basically are in agreement.But for me, it more like Superman lifts the heavens. Sounds cool. Doesn't make him literally have infinite strength, but at least we can cross that one off the "things Superman hasn't lifted yet" list now.
The writer mentions something different about lifting the heavens. That it's not a strength ft.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, but something with that much mass will exert a noticeable pull on its surroundings.Narrative convenience also then works with infinite strength.
With how much mass? 100 tons? That won't have any noticeable effect at all, especially compared to the Earth's surface gravity.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
But he still did exist, even after he had supposedly 'won'. It was directly stated that the parameters of each crisis were different, so I see no need to involve a multiverse there without more direct evidence.
You're simply reaching now. The comic defines what happens after the bad guys win and you are going "see, this did not happen in original comic so it's not a multiverse because reasons".
I read it. I just don't like the dwarf form.
OK?
And Old Gods have horns by default? If you become one, you grow them? And how long is that supposed to take? Secondly, 'becoming an Old God' just by ruling for a long time doesn't really make sense, since the Old Gods were the original race of gods whose deaths created the New Gods. Darkseid could rule for an infinite time but he'd still have been born after the Old Gods fell, so he wouldn't be one of them.
Is this a serious argument? He had horns because he grew older, what does that has to do with anything? We literally see multiple Supermen from multiple universes in that particular reality aka multiverse existed and Darkseid conquered it.
But all of these crises are different. They are not the originals, but recreations, with different scenarios and circumstances.
There was only one difference, bad guys won.
I don't see what you're saying. Any way you look at it, it's an inconsistency.
No, it's not.
I read it. I'm not saying that it's impossible that there was a multiverse for each of the recreated crises, but I don't see sufficient evidence for it.
Because you're reaching for something which is simply not there.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
With how much mass? 100 tons? That won't have any noticeable effect at all, especially compared to the Earth's surface gravity.
Well, Hulk's weight of a star instance and Lobo's Stargrave(who possesses stellar mass) pulling instance come to my mind
Lobo's
https://imgur.com/2Ou3vLI
https://imgur.com/2Av471M
https://imgur.com/5LyYuCw
Hulk's
https://i.postimg.cc/w3qGtvtd/image.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Hj6Pbg58/image.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/JGtYq2c6/image.jpg
Originally posted by Endless Mike
With how much mass? 100 tons? That won't have any noticeable effect at all, especially compared to the Earth's surface gravity.
I misread, but my point is that you allow narrative convenience for 100 tons, but not for infinity tons.
So where does your line stop? 100,000 tons? A billion?
Originally posted by abhilegend
You're simply reaching now. The comic defines what happens after the bad guys win and you are going "see, this did not happen in original comic so it's not a multiverse because reasons".
It also says that they are not the crises as they knew them, but some kind of dark versions. Anti-Monitor never had that form in the original COIE, nor did Darkseid in FC. Darkseid also specifically talks about ruling "this world".
Is this a serious argument? He had horns because he grew older, what does that has to do with anything? We literally see multiple Supermen from multiple universes in that particular reality aka multiverse existed and Darkseid conquered it.
The multiple Superman is a good point, I can give you that one. Although I don't see why Darkseid would grow horns as he got older.
There was only one difference, bad guys won.
And had different forms...
No, it's not.
Yeah, it is. If you have the power from multiple infinite multiverses, why is it taking so long to conquer 52 universes one-by-one?
Because you're reaching for something which is simply not there.
I'm not reaching for anything, as I'm not even making a positive claim, that there absolutely were not multiple multiverses. But your point about the multiple Supermen in FC was a good one.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Well, Hulk's weight of a star instance and Lobo's Stargrave(who possesses stellar mass) pulling instance come to my mindLobo's
https://imgur.com/2Ou3vLI
https://imgur.com/2Av471M
https://imgur.com/5LyYuCwHulk's
https://i.postimg.cc/w3qGtvtd/image.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Hj6Pbg58/image.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/JGtYq2c6/image.jpg
I attribute the Lobo one to his toonforce/reality warping nature. He even lampshades it in the comic.
As for the Hulk, he also has a bit of that kind of thing going sometimes, but it's also perhaps hyperbole, or some kind of local reality warping effect. But that also makes it unquantifiable, just like the book.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I misread, but my point is that you allow narrative convenience for 100 tons, but not for infinity tons.So where does your line stop? 100,000 tons? A billion?
Generally, when it reaches the point where the planet they're on should be orbiting around the object itself, rather than the other way around. Of course there are powers like localized gravity manipulation in fiction, so that can excuse it somewhat.
Originally posted by Endless Mikethe point was to destabilize the earth not to destroy it. A guy that you even admitted destroyed only 3 universes was in thei group. Do you think he would have had trouble destroying a planet when he’s done so easily many times in the past. Think if it like a controlled explosion. It required delicate maneuvering instead of outright power. This was already explained to numbskulls like alerto, JBL and carter multiple times lol.
….But later in the same story, he needed the help of about a dozen others just to 'destabilize' one version of Earth (it looked like they didn't even completely destroy it, just damaged it so the evil Batman couldn't use it to focus energy to make his new multiverse).So it's kind of inconsistent. But still a very impressive feat.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
I attribute the Lobo one to his toonforce/reality warping nature. He even lampshades it in the comic.As for the Hulk, he also has a bit of that kind of thing going sometimes, but it's also perhaps hyperbole, or some kind of local reality warping effect. But that also makes it unquantifiable, just like the book.
Generally, when it reaches the point where the planet they're on should be orbiting around the object itself, rather than the other way around. Of course there are powers like localized gravity manipulation in fiction, so that can excuse it somewhat.
So when Supes benches the Earth's mass.....that should be knocking it out of orbit, or at least, having some effect on Earth.
But there wasn't.
So do we kick this feat out?
And does your stance,your logic, only apply to mass?
Originally posted by Diesldude
the point was to destabilize the earth not to destroy it. A guy that you even admitted destroyed only 3 universes was in thei group. Do you think he would have had trouble destroying a planet when he’s done so easily many times in the past. Think if it like a controlled explosion. It required delicate maneuvering instead of outright power. This was already explained to numbskulls like alerto, JBL and carter multiple times lol.
It seemed to be implying that the Earth was necessary to channel the power, so just getting rid of it in any way would work. Then again, they would need a place to make their last stand.
Superman’s chain feat stacks up well against feats by others not including SBP and Superman.
I haven't seen that one. Do you have the scans?
So when Supes benches the Earth's mass.....that should be knocking it out of orbit, or at least, having some effect on Earth.
Not necessarily, as IIRC, he was at the core of the Earth at the time. So shifting it such a short distance from its center of mass probably wouldn't cause that much issue. Or even if it would, it's a lot more believable than lifting infinite weight.
And does your stance,your logic, only apply to mass?
I'm skeptical of any feat I consider to be too outrageous compared to a character's consistent high-end showings. The Hulk and Superman obviously aren't written as having literally infinite strength, else they would never struggle with anything. Considering that the book thing only happened once, it's also an outlier, combined with not making any real sense. Same with the Hulk/Ironclad clash.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
It seemed to be implying that the Earth was necessary to channel the power, so just getting rid of it in any way would work. Then again, they would need a place to make their last stand.I haven't seen that one. Do you have the scans?
Not necessarily, as IIRC, he was at the core of the Earth at the time. So shifting it such a short distance from its center of mass probably wouldn't cause that much issue. Or even if it would, it's a lot more believable than lifting infinite weight.
I'm skeptical of any feat I consider to be too outrageous compared to a character's consistent high-end showings. The Hulk and Superman obviously aren't written as having literally infinite strength, else they would never struggle with anything. Considering that the book thing only happened once, it's also an outlier, combined with not making any real sense. Same with the Hulk/Ironclad clash.
Yup but why destroy and kill billions when you only need to destabilize it? Superman has had hard time killing one, do you think he would be ok killing billions?
Originally posted by Endless Mike
It also says that they are not the crises as they knew them, but some kind of dark versions. Anti-Monitor never had that form in the original COIE, nor did Darkseid in FC. Darkseid also specifically talks about ruling "this world".
Because they won and that was after they completed their missions. It has nothing to do with a multiversal crisis somehow turning universal.
The multiple Superman is a good point, I can give you that one. Although I don't see why Darkseid would grow horns as he got older.
How does that convert a multiversal crisis to universal?
And had different forms...
And?
Yeah, it is. If you have the power from multiple infinite multiverses, why is it taking so long to conquer 52 universes one-by-one?
Because the energy doesn't correlates to the number of universes?
I'm not reaching for anything, as I'm not even making a positive claim, that there absolutely were not multiple multiverses. But your point about the multiple Supermen in FC was a good one.
Yes, you are. Somehow Darkseid growing horns over time makes a multiversal crisis universal. Somehow.
Originally posted by abhilegend Because the energy doesn't correlates to the number of universes?
Why wouldn't it? It would be like saying if I had an infinite amount of tanks, planes, and soldiers, but I still had to conquer the USA one state at a time, even when I was trying to do so as fast as I could.
Yes, you are. Somehow Darkseid growing horns over time makes a multiversal crisis universal. Somehow. [/B]
Not just the horns, more the fact that these versions of the crises were explicitly stated to be different. But I can accept at least the FC one being a multiverse because of the multiple alternate Supermen as you pointed out.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
I haven't seen that one. Do you have the scans?
Superman: Up in the Sky Issue #6
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Superman: Up in the Sky Issue #6
Thanks.
By 'an inverted black hole' I would assume they mean a white hole?
As for moving stars between galaxies, that would have to be done faster than the speed of light (if you wanted it done in any reasonable amount of time), but that can't really be quantified in terms of force.
Still, I would say this is at least a star level feat. Maybe even better than the neutron star feat. So I would perhaps put it at #7, and move the neutron star one down to #8.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Thanks.By 'an inverted black hole' I would assume they mean a white hole?
As for moving stars between galaxies, that would have to be done faster than the speed of light (if you wanted it done in any reasonable amount of time), but that can't really be quantified in terms of force.
Still, I would say this is at least a star level feat. Maybe even better than the neutron star feat. So I would perhaps put it at #7, and move the neutron star one down to #8.
I also recommand you to read this story. IMO, it is a good read and it perfectly portrayed Superman as a character maybe the best Superman story in recent years
