Abortion

Originally posted by yerssot
so you take the right to say it's a person right from day 1 then? I thought it had to be at least conscious to be categorised as something close to human

Originally posted by Lana
Okay, Clovie, I gotta say that this is the biggest crap ever. Just because someone was raised as a Catholic doesn't mean they'll stick with those ideals. I was raised Catholic and I think that Catholic beliefs and morals are shit. It means nothing, ultimately.

Originally posted by yerssot
you was supposed to be not aimed at you but in general, I always wondered what the official stand of the church is about that 😮

Originally posted by alcoholicpoet
Well someone must of forgotten to tell me, and, how are you posting here if you don't know english?

@AC
The fact that I believe abortion to be wrong doesn't mean I'm stopping anyone from doing it. of course it's their choice. but I think I have a right not to consider it as the right one, right?

Yes Clovie, but you have no right to try and infringe that on anyone in any way at any time.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes Clovie, but you have no right to try and infringe that on anyone in any way at any time.

-AC

Nor do you.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes Clovie, but you have no right to try and infringe that on anyone in any way at any time.

-AC

Originally posted by debbiejo
Nor do you.

Debbiejo: Exactly, nor do I. Nor am I trying to. If you mean in past cases where I've continually told Clovie she was wrong, that was when she was factually wrong. Not me trying to change her view. She had a wrong view.

Thanks for joining in again, always a pleasure.

Clovie: Yes I have. Constantly throughout this thread, so have many others.

You constantly saying you feel you should help the girl, it's not needed. Nor wanted, probably. You are entitled to your opinion (when it IS an opinion, not wrong) but keep it to yourself in a case such a abortion.

You think it's wrong and horrible to kill a cute little baby? (Which it isn't, as we've said) Fine. Don't have an abortion then. Just butt out of the lives of those who do.

Now, anyone else need this explained to them for the millionth time?

-AC

Originally posted by Clovie
conscious?
so if a premature baby is being born..it should be considered as something close to human or not?

I think it's either called agnostic or ateist

- heretic then?

My sister in law is a nurse that was helping in a surgery trying to surgically remove a tumor on a woman's fallopian tube...When the doctor handed her what he thought was a clump of blood sack...she looked at it and saw that it was a baby...this was at around 8-12 weeks in-gestation period...

Right.

Oh sorry, you were implying that this somehow means that at the time of abortion it's a wittle baby?

I'm sure that the scientists of the world have already taken that into account when it was said that abortions are carries out before it's a baby.

Hence the term ABORT-ion. Stopped before completion, halted.

What about this are you not understanding?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Right.

Oh sorry, you were implying that this somehow means that at the time of abortion it's a wittle baby?
-AC

A womans choice, but YES...

Well you're wrong.

I hope we can move on from this seeing as we've been over it.

You thinking that it is and it actually being that are two different things.

-AC

If you wanna get technical about it, the embryo turns into a fetus at the 8th week of pregnancy. Once it's a fetus it's technically considered a "baby." Though the term baby is rather loose... it still isn't an infant until birth, which is the what most people picture when they here the word "baby." Pretty much solves that.

✅

I don't consider it a baby or a human until it leaves the womb, because...it's not.

Baby/Infant, you're not one till you're born. Either way, at that point it's not a "cute" little baby. It's an undeveloped form of nothingness, so it's not sitting in there in a little blue cosy like most people would love to believe.

That said, once again I find myself saying, if you don't want an abortion. Fine, don't have one. Get out of the lives of those who do though.

-AC

If what you're saying is at the stage it's not "cute" or doesn't look like a baby then I don't know, I guess that's a matter of opinion. I thought we were speaking scientifically. Scientifically, it is a human at fertilization and a baby at 8 weeks. Is it a "person" so to speak? No, but that's a completely different matter.

Let me also note that the majority of abortions do take place before the 12th week of pregnancy, so most of the time it isn't yet a "fetus" or "baby" at the time of termination.

Precisely.

Which is the point I've been trying to make.

But to people like Debbiejo, anything in a womb is a baby in a woolly hat.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Precisely.

Which is the point I've been trying to make.

But to people like Debbiejo, anything in a womb is a baby in a woolly hat.

-AC

What can I say...I like puppies too...

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Thanks for joining in again, always a pleasure.
-AC

Well, I've always had that effect on people...
🙂

Ahhhh, but this seems like deja vu again...sleep1

Abortion is definately wrong, however much you want to rationalize it it's still murder, would you like it if you were killed before you could ever experience life?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I don't consider it a baby or a human until it leaves the womb, because...it's not.

Baby/Infant, you're not one till you're born. Either way, at that point it's not a "cute" little baby. It's an undeveloped form of nothingness, so it's not sitting in there in a little blue cosy like most people would love to believe.

That said, once again I find myself saying, if you don't want an abortion. Fine, don't have one. Get out of the lives of those who do though.

-AC

Just remember that YOU were a "form of nothingness" at one time too, that your mother decided to keep. We ALL were. And we all could have just as easily been wiped out had our parents decided otherwise.

No it's not a "cute little baby" at that stage, but there again that shows the emphasis we place on vanity and appearance. Every time a child is wiped out, you also wipe out the hope they could have contributed to our society..any one of them could have been the next Nobel Prize winner or the doctor who found a cure for the major diseases of our times.

Just because an embryo no discernible genitalia dosen't mean it's not a living thing. There again, based on that argument, it shows me how much people think with their dicks and pussies anyway being that's the criteria they base the "form of nothing's" development upon. So much for moving on and upward..

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Clovie: Yes I have. Constantly throughout this thread, so have many others.

You constantly saying you feel you should help the girl, it's not needed. Nor wanted, probably. You are entitled to your opinion (when it IS an opinion, not wrong) but keep it to yourself in a case such a abortion.

You think it's wrong and horrible to kill a cute little baby? (Which it isn't, as we've said) Fine. Don't have an abortion then. Just butt out of the lives of those who do
-AC

sorry then. i didn't feel like it.

I'm saying that the state should. not me personally 😖

yes. i think so.
and i'm not butting into anyone's life.

Originally posted by yerssot
- as far as I know my biology those prematures are humans... I'm refering to the bunch of cells here not a baby that got born a month too early

- heretic then?

- ask someone at your uni...
I know that agnosting is the person who doesn't believe in God, but if they see a proof they would beleive
and ateist/heretic is a person who fights with God..so as if they know god exists 😖

Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Just remember that YOU were a "form of nothingness" at one time too, that your mother decided to keep. We ALL were. And we all could have just as easily been wiped out had our parents decided otherwise.

I know I was, what's your point? Why do people continually assume that if they play the "Would you like to have been aborted?" card, I'll say "Well shucks, abortion IS wrong." If my MOTHER aborted me, I'd have never known so it wouldn't have bothered me.

Originally posted by Dagons Blade
No it's not a "cute little baby" at that stage, but there again that shows the emphasis we place on vanity and appearance. Every time a child is wiped out, you also wipe out the hope they could have contributed to our society..any one of them could have been the next Nobel Prize winner or the doctor who found a cure for the major diseases of our times.

What utter nonsense.

That last line is just about...THE SINGLE biggest load of tripe I've read on this thread. The baby could also grow up to be a mass murderer or a rapist. What the baby COULD be IF it was born, is irrelevant because it's not a baby and it's not being born. Are you picking up what I'm putting down? If I tread on a seed, you can't say "That would have been a tree!!!" because it wouldn't have been anything but a seed without my planting it, it needs me to become something. Like "babies" need their mother/parents. It doesn't have some unique right to be birthed, it's the mother's, it's in HER body.

As Clovie said, it's not able to live on it's own. So why should the mother keep something alive (remember, there's a difference between having a life and being alive), go through childbirth, all for something she doesn't want? She shouldn't and it's not wrong of her to get rid of it. What IS wrong is people like you trying to force women to have babies they don't want.

I expect that each and every anti-abortionist has their name on the adoption list. Because if you don't, you're a f*cking hypocrite. You force the women to have them, so you raise em. You wanted it in this world so much, you feed it, pay for it, take care of it, raise it, worry about it, nurture it, and let the woman who WOULD have had an abortion, have a carefree life. However, the amount of anti-abortionists actually willing to adopt a kid who was going to be aborted are small. Most of you talk the talk and don't walk the walk.

Though it shouldn't get to that, because abortion would have been what she wanted.

Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Just because an embryo no discernible genitalia dosen't mean it's not a living thing. There again, based on that argument, it shows me how much people think with their dicks and pussies anyway being that's the criteria they base the "form of nothing's" development upon. So much for moving on and upward..

I'd rather think with my dick (which I don't, and you're rather silly for saying so) than not think, which you appear to be doing.

-AC