Abortion

Originally posted by BackFire
So then why be against capital punishment. Doesn't affect you or your life, why not just let them "knock themselves out" as well?

Because these are the people running our countries, our governments are doing this. Not some random female.

Moreover, killing a man/woman with a family for a crime nobody can ever be sure he/she committed, is stupid. Some foetus is equal to that? Come on.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No cure for idiocy, nor is it your responsibilty to interject into places of no business to you.

Yes, in many cases. I'm not asking you to agree, condone or concede, but it happens. Some people choose abortion over adoption, it happens, accept it.

It's extremely unnerving that there are people who would try to force their beliefs on others, this is the bigger threat in my opinion.

Personally, speaking for myself, I'd rather abort the child than possibly having it show up later saying "I'm your daughter/son" and ****ing up the life I've worked for whilst also putting him/her through that shake-up.

That said, I hope you are all on the adoption list.

Infact, how many of you pro-lifers are on the adoption list? This is going to be fun.

-AC

Well if they do show up on your step and "mess up your life" as you say, then you deserve it. They're there b/c of you and your stupid mistakes.

is it comprehensible.....

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
They have a right to think whatever they choose, this doesn't bestow upon them some mystical shield from hypocricy. Especially with regards to euthanasia.

I've not got the burden of proof, I'm for the woman doing whatever she wants with her foetus, I couldn't care any less. It's pro-lifers who are trying to tell me I'm wrong, which they can't do unless they can prove abortion is murder.

With regards to your post that you asked for my views on: If you leave it too late and abort the baby at partial birth, I can't say that I'm completely comfortable with it but I stand by my conviction that it's her baby, not mine. Doesn't affect me or my life so knock herself out.

-AC

First of all- your charges of hypocrisy were based on false premises, as I exposed. They only worked if you exposed a moral contradiction, but from the point of view they were arguing from, there was none.

Secondly, yes you do have the burden of proof, because it is very possible for aboritions to be murder if left too late. Some religious types say the point is zero seconds after contraception. Prove it is a different point and then you have a case. If ydou can't, you are just guessing and your point has no more value than theirs.

Thirdly, you are escaping the question. Is killing a baby 30 seconds before birth murder?

If you say no, then you are simply a totally immoral person saying it is ok to kill a baby just because the Mother crated it. You cannot say that simply because it has not passed through a vagina, it is not a living baby.

If you say yes... then please tell me how far back does it go before it is not?

Yes, in many cases. I'm not asking you to agree, condone or concede, but it happens. Some people choose abortion over adoption, it happens, accept it.

It's extremely unnerving that there are people who would try to force their beliefs on others, this is the bigger threat in my opinion.

Why should I accept something I don't agree with. I know it happens, don't need to bring that to my attention. Doesn't mean I can't think poorly of the people who do it for this reason, nor does it mean that just because something "happens" that it should simply be allowed. If they have a right to end life without any real reason other then some strange distaste for adoption, then I have a right to completely judge these people for their blatant idiocy and evility.

And no, I think people ending life is far worse then someone discussing their views.

As do I. I cannot believe that AC thinks that murder might not be the greatest sin involved here.

It makes me extremely worried about AC's morality. One of his earlier posts said it was only 'my opinion' that it would be wrong to kill a baby to improve a woman's life.

I submit that anyone who doesn't think that is simply evil, and I suspect most would agree with me.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
As do I. I cannot believe that AC thinks that murder might not be the greatest sin involved here.

It makes me extremely worried about AC's morality. One of his earlier posts said it was only 'my opinion' that it would be wrong to kill a baby to improve a woman's life.

I submit that anyone who doesn't think that is simply evil, and I suspect most would agree with me.

A life is something so precious, so special. What is a "view" but a "view"

is it comprehensible.....

Bah. I think It's selfish. The girl goes blah blah my body, father has no right..blah blah. Well without the father there is no baby, and also the baby is not the woman's body so she has no right to kill it. People do it for the dumbest of reasons, and then do it again, and again, and again....ok I understand if soem mad man came out from the bushes and rapoed you...then again you could us ethat pill thingy when the baby is not even there..but woman report rape like 25 days after then go kill the baby..BAH.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because these are the people running our countries, our governments are doing this. Not some random female.

Moreover, killing a man/woman with a family for a crime nobody can ever be sure he/she committed, is stupid. Some foetus is equal to that? Come on.

-AC

What do them running the country have to do with anything. The government has better reasons for killing these criminals then some selfish whore who's terminating her kid because she doesn't want to go up to a size 14.

Yeah, a fetus is equal to a murdering criminal, if not greater because it hasn't done any harm to anyone. It will eventually become a human, and have a life.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because these are the people running our countries, our governments are doing this. Not some random female.

Moreover, killing a man/woman with a family for a crime nobody can ever be sure he/she committed, is stupid. Some foetus is equal to that? Come on.

-AC

wow this one almost belongs in a deano thread..............

so aside from this death penalty at the moment.......

abortions are ok because the descision can be made by people that don't make "policies" of a country?

Originally posted by BackFire
What do them running the country have to do with anything. The government has better reasons for killing these criminals then some selfish whore who's terminating her kid because she doesn't want to go up to a size 14.

Yeah, a fetus is equal to a murdering criminal, if not greater because it hasn't done any harm to anyone. It will eventually become a human, and have a life.

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
Well if they do show up on your step and "mess up your life" as you say, then you deserve it. They're there b/c of you and your stupid mistakes.

is it comprehensible.....

I thought you cared about the kid? What about the trauma that kid might also go through? You've now allowed for the ****ing up of two lives because you didn't want the prevention of one.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
First of all- your charges of hypocrisy were based on false premises, as I exposed. They only worked if you exposed a moral contradiction, but from the point of view they were arguing from, there was none.

Secondly, yes you do have the burden of proof, because it is very possible for aboritions to be murder if left too late. Some religious types say the point is zero seconds after contaception. Prive it is a different point and then you have a case. If you can't, you ar ejust guessing and your point has no more value than theirs.

Thirdly, you are escaping the wuestion. Is killing a baby 30 seconds before birth murder?

If you say no, then you are simply a totally immoral person saying it is ok to kill a baby just because the Mother crated it. You cannot say that simply because it has not passed through a vagina, it is not a living baby.

If you say yes... then please tell me how far back does it go before it is not?

On murder as a whole in this case, Ush:

Murder by definition is premeditate killing with malicious intent. Preventing your own life from being f*cked up isn't malicious intent in my book.

If the killing is done without malicious intent, then no. Regardless of how much any of us disagrees with extremely late abortion, I don't consider it murder. Me being immoral is your opinion.

Originally posted by BackFire
Why should I accept something I don't agree with. I know it happens, don't need to bring that to my attention. Doesn't mean I can't think poorly of the people who do it for this reason, nor does it mean that just because something "happens" that it should simply be allowed. If they have a right to end life without any real reason other then some strange distaste for adoption, then I have a right to completely judge these people for their blatant idiocy and evility.

And no, I think people ending life is far worse then someone discussing their views

I never said you have to agree with it or like those who do it. I said your puzzlement as to why, doesn't change that it does happen.

Judge away, I never said you shouldn't.

Not sure what point you're making here, BF.

-AC

Capital Punishment and Abortion are two very different issues.

Irrelevant.

Death penalty: A person has been trialed and found guilty. Sentence is death.

Abortion: Termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus.

Quit connecting the two.

You said I should accept it just because it happens. A lot of things happen, that doesn't mean they should all be accepted. That was my point.

"Murder by definition is premeditate killing with malicious intent. Preventing your own life from being f*cked up isn't malicious intent in my book.

If the killing is done without malicious intent, then no. Regardless of how much any of us disagrees with extremely late abortion, I don't consider it murder. Me being immoral is your opinion."

You don't think killing a baby just to improve your own life is malicious?

Then yes, it is VERY much my opinion that you are immoral, and in fact I think this makes you out to be incredibly evil indeed, and I reckon all sensible and right thinking people would agree with me, and I would urge everyone to have absolutely nothing to do with you.

That point of view is truly hideous. You seriously think you can defend the position "It's ok to kill babies to improve your own life"?

What the hell kind of person are you?

Your arguments have no credibility when coming from such a diseased mind. I hope to hell that no serious, intelligent or mature decision is ever taken by anyone with your mindset.

Originally posted by BackFire
What do them running the country have to do with anything. The government has better reasons for killing these criminals then some selfish whore who's terminating her kid because she doesn't want to go up to a size 14.

Yeah, a fetus is equal to a murdering criminal, if not greater because it hasn't done any harm to anyone. It will eventually become a human, and have a life.

A fair point, but my point was that agree or disagree...don't ban abortions just because of this whore you call stupid. I'm not so self-absorbed that I believe she should not abort the baby and have to suffer.

If you're going to be pro-life, care about the people who are already here, life is life is life. Regardless of the actions TAKEN by that life.

Exactly, BF. It will eventually become human, have a life...possibly find it's real mother, be traumatised by it. Mother is traumatised. Two lives possibled ruined because you dislike the prevention of one.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I thought you cared about the kid? What about the trauma that kid might also go through? You've now allowed for the ****ing up of two lives because you didn't want the prevention of one.

-AC

Yes, I'd rather that, then killing the child off.

They'll get through it and see that they're better than you and make something of themselves in life. It's not like they'll be fretting over you their whole lifes. Not worth it. They could have real parents who've adopted them that they can lean on and depend on.

is it comprehensible.....

The point is that the girl should not have gotten pregnant in the first place if she doesn't want it. Did you guys no it is illegal well here in the Usa, to have sex under 18,with some ones wife, not in marriage(I dn what they did with the law but it wa sthat) becaus eit disrupts the everything and without family(not all over the place) the chaos happens...thats why in the old days japan and china was so into the family and crap...yeah something like that(saw it in my law book)

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
At least there is a life.

Yes, I'd rather that, then killing the child off.

They'll get through it and see that they're better than you and make something of themselves in life. It's not like they'll be fretting over you their whole lifes. Not worth it. They could have real parents who adopted them to lean on and depend on.

is it comprehensible.....

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You don't think killing a baby just to improve your own life is malicious?

Then yes, it is VERY much my opinion that you are immoral, and in fact I think this makes you out to be incredibly evil indeed, and I reckon all sensible and right thinking people would agree with me, and I would urge everyone to have absolutely nothing to do with you.

No I don't. What ever happened to it being ok to live for yourself and no compromise your life? Sure, a shitty mistake IS a shitty mistake and I've never denied that, but everyone has the right to change those mistakes.

Your oscar for most overly dramatic performance is in the mail, rest assured.

That aside, I'm sure I will lose sleep over you and your irrelavent opinions of my morals.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That point of view is truly hideous. You seriously think you can defend the position "It's ok to kill babies to improve your own life"?

What the hell kind of person are you?

Your arguments have no credibility when coming from such a diseased mind. I hope to hell that no serious, intelligent or mature decision is ever taken by anyone with your mindset.

Oh cut it out Charlize Theron, you're making such a huge deal out of this.

It's on to have an abortion to improve your own life, yes. You can use the terminology "Killing babies" to make it seem worse if you like, doesn't work on me.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
A fair point, but my point was that agree or disagree...don't ban abortions just because of this whore you call stupid. I'm not so self-absorbed that I believe she should not abort the baby and have to suffer.

If you're going to be pro-life, care about the people who are already here, life is life is life. Regardless of the actions TAKEN by that life.

Exactly, BF. It will eventually become human, have a life...possibly find it's real mother, be traumatised by it. Mother is traumatised. Two lives possibled ruined because you dislike the prevention of one.

-AC

As I said, I'm not trying to ban abortions, I don't want them banned. Also, I don't believe her going up to a size 14 qualifies as "suffering".

I do care about the people who are already here, doesn't mean you can't also care about the people to come.

Also, the possibility of someone having some problems in their life is no excuse to simply not give them the chance to live.