Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Nor is every woman who is pregnant responsible for being pregnant.How a woman becomes pregnant is just as irrelevant to whether or not she should be permitted to have an abortion as how you became plugged into the famous unconcious violinist is irrelevant to whether or not you should be permitted to be unplugged from him. Because remember this, all persons have a right to decide what happens in and to his or her body, but a person's right to life is stronger and more stringent than his or her right to decide what happens in and to his or her body, and so outweighs it. An abortion cannot be performed, and you cannot be unplugged from the famous unconcious violinist.
Adam...this has got to be one of the stupidest analogies you've ever posted.
Well done my friend!!!
Moving on..A chick who get's pregnant has a "choice" to engage in sex, she also has the ability to "choose" to use protection.(ie birth control pills, condoms, birth control shots, etc)
In your little silly scenario..the person obviously didn't have a "choice" to be put in the predicament that he was in.
Now if an individual went around, knowingly trying to "plug" people who were on life support into himself..and knew what the consequences of said actions were before he engaged in such an activity...then yes..he would be just as guilty as the chick who screws a bunch of guys...gets pregnant, and then attempts to rationalize why she should be able to take a life, based on her foolish decisions.
Fin.
If the governments of the world said tomorrow "None of you have to pay for abortion if you are against it", people like Sithsaber, Makedde etc would still complain. Despite that position being very fair on them. They won't be satisfied until everybody thinks, acts and believes like them.
Also, stop calling it genocide for christ's sake. Talk about overblowing it.
-AC
A 1/3rd of my generation is dead.
Gone. Killed. (since you don't like "murdered".) Without any say.
Genocide is the extermination of one particular group.
The group is unborn babies, to the tune of I-dont-know-how-many millions.
They are allowed to be killed because "they aren't human" yet.
That sounds nothing like genocide,.... I'm WAY off the mark here.
🙄
Originally posted by sithsaber408
A 1/3rd of my generation is dead.Gone. Killed. (since you don't like "murdered".) Without any say.
Genocide is the extermination of one particular group.
The group is unborn babies, to the tune of I-dont-know-how-many millions.
They are allowed to be killed because "they aren't human" yet.
That sounds nothing like genocide,.... I'm WAY off the mark here.
🙄
Yeah, since genocide only applies to humans. And it'S also not a particular agenda that kills them but single people that decide to kill the fetus.
Originally posted by Makedde
I agree. It doesn't matter what is fact, all that matters is what you think is right.
This has to be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard.
"Hey, it's a well-known fact that jumping off of a tall building causes a mild case of death."
"Screw facts! I think jumping off of a tall building doesn't cause death!"
"AUGH! I should have listened to the FACTS! Now I'm DEAD!"
Originally posted by sithsaber408
A 1/3rd of my generation is dead.Gone. Killed. (since you don't like "murdered".) Without any say.
Genocide is the extermination of one particular group.
The group is unborn babies, to the tune of I-dont-know-how-many millions.
They are allowed to be killed because "they aren't human" yet.
That sounds nothing like genocide,.... I'm WAY off the mark here.
🙄
Genocide is the planned extermination of a massive group, be it ethnic, political or whatever.
A lot of death doesn't equal genocide, it's just a lot of death. This is why you kind of people can't debate seriously, you confuse general killing (which isn't a bad word, it's an act) with the specific crimes that killing is involved in.
-AC
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Adam...this has got to be one of the stupidest analogies you've ever posted.Well done my friend!!!
Moving on..A chick who get's pregnant has a "choice" to engage in sex, she also has the ability to "choose" to use protection.(ie birth control pills, condoms, birth control shots, etc)
In your little silly scenario..the person obviously didn't have a "choice" to be put in the predicament that he was in.
Now if an individual went around, knowingly trying to "plug" people who were on life support into himself..and knew what the consequences of said actions were before he engaged in such an activity...then yes..he would be just as guilty as the chick who screws a bunch of guys...gets pregnant, and then attempts to rationalize why she should be able to take a life, based on her foolish decisions.
Fin.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
That is outrageous Adam you are right.Nobody "kidnaps" a pregnant woman into bed (very rarely in cases of rape)...8 out of 10 abortions are by women who either didn't use protection, or became pregnant through faulty protection.
They still decided to f*ck whoever they were with.
Nobody put a gun to their heads, and "whoops, oh no,.... now I'm in this unforseen predicament."
C'mon Adam, you're smart, and I [B]do
respect your opinion as a debator,.... but you can do better than this. [/B]
This is the case for approximately 13,700 women in the United States annually.
Try addressing the argument instead of dismissing it.
Re: Abortion
Originally posted by Julie
Gee, I'm just full of these tonight.Are you pro-life, pro-choice, or pro-abortion?
I'm really on the fence about this issue as to whether it should be legal/illegal. However, I personally could never imagine killing one of my own children do my own irresponsibilty/stupidity. Its a selfish act that I would equate to negligent homocide. There's really no point in killing an innocent who has a clean slate in life and hasn't even had the opportunity to take a single breath, when you couldv'e used a rubber.
Above all, contraceptives are not allowed in Catholism.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
This is the case for approximately 13,700 women in the United States annually.Try addressing the argument instead of dismissing it.
Very well, I will adress it.
For the 13,000 + women who become pregnant due to rape, that is a very sad thing.
I truly, honestly, wish to God that those kinds of things didn't happen.
It is a difficult question to answer, and you are right.
It would be like sticking them to another person against their will and tell them that they had to deal with it or be guilty of the death of an innocent person.
Truly unfair.
You won't like my personal opinion on it though, I'm afraid.
Unless the girl is like 13-18, she shouldn't have an abortion. (even then, many parents are in the position to help her raise it.)
It would be hard for her, and remind her of the rape, and also the rapist.
But it could also be good. She will have to give it extra love, to move past it. She would grow as a person, in strength and intergrity.
Some times unfair things happen to us. Sometimes bad things.
It's the decisions that we make in those difficult times that define who we are.
From the Christian point of view, it makes a wonderfull testimony.
The Lord took something that was bad, terrible, and evil (the rape) and made something pure, loving, and life enriching.(having a child/parenthood.)
That boy or girl could grow up to become a great person, a senator or even President, and the mother would know that she responded the right way to the terrible tragedy that happened to her.
I know for sure that you won't agree, and I understand and respect why you dont (you think that there isn't a God, and even if there was, that he should make life easy for us.), but that's the way that I feel about it.
We all sin, and as much as we like to blame actions on individual people, the state of the world, and the heinous nature of some people, ... is all a result of us having a sin nature.
As I said, very sad and unfortunate.
Having said that, 13,700 is a minority when compared with how many millions of women in the U.S. that have an abortion every year, and were not raped.
The ones who get pregnant do to not using protection, or faulty protection.
They had a choice (unlike the rape victim), they had sex knowing that they could get pregnant, so the analogy of the violinist hooked to their body doesn't really apply.
The rape victims are not who this debate is about. (But you are right, without a doubt, they have to be considered)
They are less than 10% of the people who have abortions each year.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
And second, it does affect me.I pay for it through my taxes.
More than 1/3rd of my genertation is gone (why does that seem to only bother me?).. and me and my family help to pay for it.
We fund our own state-condoned genocide.
Excuse me for having an opinion about it. 🙄
No abortions are subsidized by federal tax money in the United States, and only seventeen states subsidize abortions for low income women in instances when carrying a pregnancy to term will threaten her health or life.
Moreover, I find it hypocritical of you to be upset that depending on what state you live in, your state tax money may be used to subsidize an abortion, but you are not upset that your federal tax money is being used to subsidize a war that is responsible for the deaths of 2,756 Americans.
Originally posted by DiamondBullets
"it"? 😆
Yeah, you can call a baby "it".
(I was using shorthand, since it was a long post, though)
Fine, how about "him/her" 😛 😄
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No abortions are subsidized by federal tax money in the United States, and only seventeen states subsidize abortions for low income women in instances when carrying a pregnancy to term will threaten her health or life.Moreover, I find it hypocritical of you to be upset that depending on what state you live in, your state tax money may be used to subsidize an abortion, but you are not upset that your federal tax money is being used to subsidize a war that is responsible for the deaths of 2,756 Americans.
I live in California, so I think some of my money does go toward it.
Even if not, I'm not one of the poster's who takes that as the main issue.
Even if the girl had to pay for it, I would still be against it.
Oh, and Iraq: Off-topic.
War in Iraq= Abortion....?
P.S. I'm a Rebublican, and I support the war.
I have several friends (all under 25, young guys) who are over there and say the media is full of crap. They say we are doing a good thing over there, and that most of the people they meet are happy that we set them free.
*whew!*
Sorry for the rant, but since the economics of abortion is not my main interest, and the ending of it is,... The Iraq war really has no bearing on my opinion.
(wether or not I support it would not change my feelings on ending the lives of children.)
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Very well, I will adress it.For the 13,000 + women who become pregnant due to rape, that is a very sad thing.
I truly, honestly, wish to God that those kinds of things didn't happen.
It is a difficult question to answer, and you are right.
It would be like sticking them to another person against their will and tell them that they had to deal with it or be guilty of the death of an innocent person.
Truly unfair.
You won't like my personal opinion on it though, I'm afraid.
Unless the girl is like 13-18, she shouldn't have an abortion. (even then, many parents are in the position to help her raise it.)
It would be hard for her, and remind her of the rape, and also the rapist.
But it could also be good. She will have to give it extra love, to move past it. She would grow as a person, in strength and intergrity.
Some times unfair things happen to us. Sometimes bad things.
It's the decisions that we make in those difficult times that define who we are.
From the Christian point of view, it makes a wonderfull testimony.
The Lord took something that was bad, terrible, and evil (the rape) and made something pure, loving, and life enriching.(having a child/parenthood.)
That boy or girl could grow up to become a great person, a senator or even President, and the mother would know that she responded the right way to the terrible tragedy that happened to her.
I know for sure that you won't agree, and I understand and respect why you dont (you think that there isn't a God, and even if there was, that he should make life easy for us.), but that's the way that I feel about it.
We all sin, and as much as we like to blame actions on individual people, the state of the world, and the heinous nature of some people, ... is all a result of us having a sin nature.
As I said, very sad and unfortunate.
Is it morally incumbent on a woman who is raped to accede to a forced pregnancy? No doubt it would be very nice of her if she did, a great kindness, but does she have to accede to it? Should the government be involved in forcing her to remain pregnant against her will?
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Having said that, 13,700 is a minority when compared with how many millions of women in the U.S. that have an abortion every year, and were not raped.The ones who get pregnant do to not using protection, or faulty protection.
They had a choice (unlike the rape victim), they had sex knowing that they could get pregnant, so the analogy of the violinist hooked to their body doesn't really apply.
The rape victims are not who this debate is about. (But you are right, without a doubt, they have to be considered)
They are less than 10% of the people who have abortions each year.
There are just over one million, two hundred and fifty thousand abortions performed in the United States each year, not the "millions" that you exaggerate.
Forty percent of 14 year old girls will become pregnant before they turn 20, forcing them into a life of hopelessness, joblessness, and dependency.
The majority of women who have abortions already have children and are living below the line of economic survival.
Are you going to care for all of these children?