Precisely, Adam. I seriously doubt he's even on the adoption list to be fair. I wonder how many kids he's adopted so far.
"Here's a solution to this abortion issue. I suggest that every female takes her unwanted child and drops it off on the steps of the supreme court. This problem is over in seconds. You guys said they had to have em, so you guys f*cking raise em! YOU raise them. They don't want it, but they had to have it, so you raise it.'" - Bill Hicks, ever the truthsayer.
-AC
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I live in California, so I think some of my money does go toward it.Even if not, I'm not one of the poster's who takes that as the main issue.
Even if the girl had to pay for it, I would still be against it.
Oh, and Iraq: Off-topic.
War in Iraq= Abortion....?
P.S. I'm a Rebublican, and I support the war.
I have several friends (all under 25, young guys) who are over there and say the media is full of crap. They say we are doing a good thing over there, and that most of the people they meet are happy that we set them free.
*whew!*
Sorry for the rant, but since the economics of abortion is not my main interest, and the ending of it is,... The Iraq war really has no bearing on my opinion.
(wether or not I support it would not change my feelings on ending the lives of children.)
You are upset at the possibility that your state tax money may sponsor death, but you endorse the fact that your federal tax money does sponsor death. In other words, it is okay for your tax money to sponsor death so long as it is death that you agree with. That makes you a hypocrite.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
You are upset at the possibility that your state tax money may sponsor death, but you endorse the fact that your federal tax money does sponsor death. In other words, it is okay for your tax money to sponsor death so long as it is death that you agree with. That makes you a hypocrite.
How does it make him a hypocrite?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Precisely, Adam. I seriously doubt he's even on the adoption list to be fair. I wonder how many kids he's adopted so far."Here's a solution to this abortion issue. I suggest that every female takes her unwanted child and drops it off on the steps of the supreme court. This problem is over in seconds. You guys said they had to have em, so you guys f*cking raise em! YOU raise them. They don't want it, but they had to have it, so you raise it.'" - Bill Hicks, ever the truthsayer.
-AC
"If the anti-abortion movement took a tenth of the energy they put into noisy theatrics and devoted it to improving the lives of children who have been born into lives of poverty, violence, and neglect, they could make a world shine." - Michael Jay Tucker
"Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born." - Garrett Hardin
"George W. Bush will protect your unborn fetus, then send your grown child to die in war." - Rick Claro
"If you're so pro-child and all for that little clean baby spirit, why don't you do the right thing and leave that little clean spirit wherever the hell it is, rather than bringing it into this f*cking world?" - Bill Hicks.
I agree, I can't see why anyone would want to bring a child to the world, the state it's in and the state it will be in with futures "to come". Well, no unselfish reason anyway.
-AC
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
This is the case for approximately 13,700 women in the United States annually.Try addressing the argument instead of dismissing it.
Not difficult to address at all..how does hurting someone else..justify the hurt that you've been through?
Why don't you attempt to address that ethical question..instead of dismissing it?
🙄
Not without being a hypocrite it isn't, in THAT context.
If he is speaking out against paying for death, because it's death...only to say he doesn't mind paying for death when it's ok to him, then he's a hypocrite. Why? Because his whole premise is that death is bad, and he'll have no part paying for abortions, but in war where there are many deaths of humans already living here, with families also, he's fine with it.
No greater hypocricy.
-AC
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Is it morally incumbent on a woman who is raped to accede to a forced pregnancy? No doubt it would be very nice of her if she did, a great kindness, but does she have to accede to it? Should the government be involved in forcing her to remain pregnant against her will?There are just over one million, two hundred and fifty thousand abortions performed in the United States each year, not the "millions" that you exaggerate.
Forty percent of 14 year old girls will become pregnant before they turn 20, forcing them into a life of hopelessness, joblessness, and dependency.
The majority of women who have abortions already have children and are living below the line of economic survival.
Are you going to care for all of these children?
So its' less than 10%?
you said it's 1,250,000 abortions a year, right?
and 13,700 are from rapes?
You would need 100,000 just to make it 10%
13,700 (lets' round up and say 14,000) is about 10% of 10%
or....
1.4%
That's how many woman are "forced into a life of hopelesness, joblesness, and dependency".
The rest choose to do so by opening their legs.
And thats a bunch of bullshit anyway, my mom raised me as a single mother, working for the state of California as a Supervisor in Social Services, providing me with a good home, food, clothes and education....
She was neither "hopeless" or "dependent"... in fact, she made such a good living, that she retired at 45, and gets $2,700 a month retirment benefits, living in a place that costs $1,300 a month, and after paying $800 dollars worth of food and bills,...usually has 500 or 600 dollars every month to spend on herself any damn way she pleases.
"hopeless, jobless, and dependent" my ass!
Single mothers have been doing it good for years!! (we won't even get into the cases where the fathers want to stick around and help raise the child, as it would make you look foolish)
My dad wanted me to be an abortion, my mom told him to stick it, and she had me, and did pretty damn good for herself.
That's the problem with this whole debate.
Women can too take care of themselves,and repsonsibility for their lives.
They can raise children, go to school, and have jobs all at the same time. Millions have!
But instead we create this "coddling" culture.
"Well you had sex and got pregnant, that shouldn't have happened. We can't imagine how this will destroy your life, you are so weak and pahtetic. I think the best thing for you, since you obviously can't be expected to deal with your choices (an "archaic" notion) the best thing for all involved is just to end your baby's life. Don't worry it can't feel it, and even if it could, it's still in your magic womb, the uterus of Oz,... until it passes through, it isn't a human. If we hurry and kill it, you won't have to deal with it. Then you can get back to living your life and doing whatever you want (like an adult), but if you get stuck in another sticky situation, just come back and we'll take care of your problem for you. (like a child.)"
It's bullshit plain and simple.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
So its' less than 10%?you said it's 1,250,000 abortions a year, right?
and 13,700 are from rapes?
You would need 100,000 just to make it 10%
13,700 (lets' round up and say 14,000) is about 10% of 10%
or....
1.4%
That's how many woman are "forced into a life of hopelesness, joblesness, and dependency".
The rest choose to do so by opening their legs.
And thats a bunch of bullshit anyway, my mom raised me as a single mother, working for the state of California as a Supervisor in Social Services, providing me with a good home, food, clothes and education....
She was neither "hopeless" or "dependent"... in fact, she made such a good living, that she retired at 45, and gets $2,700 a month retirment benefits, living in a place that costs $1,300 a month, and after paying $800 dollars worth of food and bills,...usually has 500 or 600 dollars every month to spend on herself any damn way she pleases.
"hopeless, jobless, and dependent" my ass!
Single mothers have been doing it good for years!! (we won't even get into the cases where the fathers [B]want
to stick around and help raise the child, as it would make you look foolish)My dad wanted me to be an abortion, my mom told him to stick it, and she had me, and did pretty damn good for herself.
That's the problem with this whole debate.
Women can too take care of themselves,and repsonsibility for their lives.
They can raise children, go to school, and have jobs all at the same time. Millions have!
But instead we create this "coddling" culture.
"Well you had sex and got pregnant, that shouldn't have happened. We can't imagine how this will destroy your life, you are so weak and pahtetic. I think the best thing for you, since you obviously can't be expected to deal with your choices (an "archaic" notion) the best thing for all involved is just to end your baby's life. Don't worry it can't feel it, and even if it could, it's still in your magic womb, the uterus of Oz,... until it passes through, it isn't a human. If we hurry and kill it, you won't have to deal with it. Then you can get back to living your life and doing whatever you want (like an adult), but if you get stuck in another sticky situation, just come back and we'll take care of your problem for you. (like a child.)"
It's bullshit plain and simple. [/B]
Do you ever read your posts and think "What the hell am I saying?" at all?
It's their fault for opening their legs? What are you? Some kind of misogynistic, religious nutcase who thinks any woman in this situation deserves a hard life? I think I'll nickname you Caleb. I can imagine you walking around an abortion clinic, cringing, saying things like "Dirrrrty. Dirrrty girls."
Your point of view and general demeanour toward women and the issue of abortion is truly frightening.
The problem with this whole debate is that there are people out there trying to refute facts of abortion, trying to force women to adopt a point of view based on what THEY think is right, not taking into account the idea that the woman may not agree.
You're a christian and you've applied your beliefs to the issue. Why? Does it not occur to you that not everyone believes in God? What would you tell a woman if she said "This is my baby, I don't believe in God so it can't be 'his'."?
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Not without being a hypocrite it isn't, in THAT context.If he is speaking out against paying for death, because it's death...only to say he doesn't mind paying for death when it's ok to him, then he's a hypocrite. Why? Because his whole premise is that death is bad, and he'll have no part paying for abortions, but in war where there are many deaths of humans already living here, with families also, he's fine with it.
No greater hypocricy.
-AC
😬 hmmmm..........
I really dont think its possible or fair to correlate abortion with war. The ONLY thing that they have in common is that peepo are getting killed.
Unlike an innocent baby, the soldiers are at least dying for a reason, and not because their mother couldn't keep her legs closed or because their dad was a sicko who raped some chick. Unless there's a draft, the soldier CHOOSES to be there. The baby , on the other hand, aint got no say in the matter.
Originally posted by DiamondBullets
😬 hmmmm..........I really dont think its possible or fair to correlate abortion with war. The ONLY thing that they have in common is that peepo are getting killed.
Unlike an innocent baby, the soldiers are at least dying for a reason, and not because their mother couldn't keep her legs closed or because their dad was a sicko who raped some chick. Unless there's a draft, the soldier CHOOSES to be there. The baby , on the other hand, aint got no say in the matter.
The foetus hasn't got a say in the matter because it hasn't got the capacity, ability or anything else that's required to have a say. It is 100% dependent on the mother to keep it alive. No "people" are dying with abortion, first of all. You are not pro-life, Bullets. You claim to be, but you aren't. If you were pro-life you'd value the lives of people here, living lives, instead of a foetus that isn't really anything besides a glorified parasite.
Second, you're missing the point.
He is saying DEATH is bad and that's why he's against abortion, because it's death. Even if he's not paying for it, it's wrong to him. Then he's saying death is ok in war and he doesn't mind paying for it. This is hypocricy. Essentially his view is that death is ok when he thinks it is.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The foetus hasn't got a say in the matter because it hasn't got the capacity, ability or anything else that's required to have a say. It is 100% dependent on the mother to keep it alive. No "people" are dying with abortion, first of all. You are not pro-life, Bullets. You claim to be, but you aren't. If you were pro-life you'd value the lives of people here, living lives, instead of a foetus that isn't really anything besides a glorified parasite.
A "glorified parasite"? Wow! You do know that you were at that stage at one time correct? Why do you think so little of foetuses?
Why do u say I'm not pro-life? Who said I didn't value the lives of peepo here?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Do you ever read your posts and think "What the hell am I saying?" at all?It's their fault for opening their legs? What are you? Some kind of misogynistic, religious nutcase who thinks any woman in this situation deserves a hard life? I think I'll nickname you Caleb. I can imagine you walking around an abortion clinic, cringing, saying things like "Dirrrrty. Dirrrty girls."
Your point of view and general demeanour toward women and the issue of abortion is truly frightening.
The problem with this whole debate is that there are people out there trying to refute facts of abortion, trying to force women to adopt a point of view based on what THEY think is right, not taking into account the idea that the woman may not agree.
You're a christian and you've applied your beliefs to the issue. Why? Does it not occur to you that not everyone believes in God? What would you tell a woman if she said "This is my baby, I don't believe in God so it can't be 'his'."?
-AC
1.) I could ask you the same thing.
2.) Of course it's their fault for opening their legs, Casper the ghost didn't do it while they slept. Call me whatever you wish, you cannot deter common sense and reason.
3.) Your point of view toward women is that they should be able to sleep with whoever they please, (risking infection or even death from H.I.V.), have their bodies be rumaged through like an old trash can,(as many times as they please), kill their children (causing guilt and post-abortion depression in millions of women), and take no responsiblity for their lives/decisions.
Who does them the greater disservice?
4.) The whole problem of this debate is that people trivialize the value of life, and the womans ability to take care of her responsiblities.
(on the side,... I know it was Adam P.o.E., but don't mention "hopeless, jobless, dependent" women to me ever again. You are disrespecting my mother and millions of other single mothers who have successfully raised babies on their own.)
5.)My belief in God and His word does lead me, yes, but even without it, the fact that babies are being killed hasn't changed.
I would tell the athiest mother that she is taking a life that has done nothing wrong, except be born to a selfish woman.
Makedde, a lesbian athiest, and Shaky, a Buddhist, would agree with me.
You are trying to make this about my faith when it's about the ending of life.
Go for it, if it helps you feel that you are defeating some evil regime that would strip freedoms.
What you are fighting is a group of people that love life, want to preserve it, and expects people to be responsible for their actions.(just like they are in every other area of life...kill a person=go to jail/execution.)
Originally posted by DiamondBullets
A "glorified parasite"? Wow! You do know that you were at that stage at one time correct? Why do you think so little of foetuses?Why do u say I'm not pro-life? Who said I didn't value the lives of peepo here?
So little? That's exactly what they are. They are a living organism that is dependent on it's host, in this case the mother, to survive. It's exactly what it is. Just because it's created by a human doesn't mean I'm going to subject it to special treatment.
You said that a rape victim should have the baby because it's not the baby's fault she got raped. Possibly the most stupid, disgusting, un-pro-life view I've seen.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
1.) I could ask you the same thing.2.) Of course it's their fault for opening their legs, Casper the ghost didn't do it while they slept. Call me whatever you wish, you cannot deter common sense and reason.
3.) Your point of view toward women is that they should be able to sleep with whoever they please, (risking infection or even death from H.I.V.), have their bodies be rumaged through like an old trash can,(as many times as they please), kill their children (causing guilt and post-abortion depression in millions of women), and take no responsiblity for their lives/decisions.
Who does them the greater disservice?
1) Funny.
2) Cause and effect yes, but you are the same person who said that you shouldn't have sexual intercourse if you don't want a kid. So by your rationale, nobody should have sex unless they are prepared to birth a child. As in, prepared to actually give birth to one. You don't accept that between conception and child birth, there is a 9 month period (no pun intended) where a woman can do a whole lot about that foetus in her womb, and it's nothing to do with you.
3) Yes, that is exactly my point of view. It's also a fact. As long as they are causing no one any unwanted harm, it's nobody's business. Post-abortion depression? What about post-partum depression? Or is that, miraculously, less likely to occur? Is that another stat you're going to pull out of thin air?
You're a selfish human.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
4.) The whole problem of this debate is that people trivialize the value of life, and the womans ability to take care of her responsiblities.
No, the problem is that you want her to take care of it in a certain way and to make sure that happens, you're moving to eradicate any other means she might use to take care of it.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
(on the side,... I know it was Adam P.o.E., but don't mention "hopeless, jobless, depent" women to me ever again. You are disrespecting my mother and millions of other single mothers who have successfully raised babies on their own.)
I'm not, you're making that connection.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
5.)My belief in God and His word does lead me, yes, but even without it, the fact that babies are being killed hasn't changed.
Well you have applied that belief to women, saying the distinction of whether the baby lives or dies belongs to God, which is false.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I would tell the athiest mother that she is taking a life that has done nothing wrong, except be born to a selfish woman.
Exactly! Caught in your own words there, buddy. Why have the baby be born to a selfish woman? Why is the woman's selfishness any of your business? She's not hurting you. "I have to pay for it" So? Even if you didn't you'd still moan. You want things your way and you want women to act in a way you like, that's all there is to this.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Makedde, a lesbian athiest, and Shaky, a Buddhist, would agree with me.
Couldn't care any less about who agrees with you because I've already decided that Makedde is stupid for trying to deny a fact, and that you are a subliminally misogynistic, selfish moron who wants nothing more than a God-fearing world, sharing his beliefs.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
You are trying to make this about my faith when it's about the ending of life.
I'm not making it about your faith.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Go for it, if it helps you feel that you are defeating some evil regime that would strip freedoms.
You are trying to strip freedoms, don't have the audacity to claim you aren't.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
What you are fighting is a group of people that love life, want to preserve it, and expects people to be responsible for their actions.(just like they are in every other area of life...kill a person=go to jail/execution.)
You don't love life, you want to believe you do but you do not. Your actions and words contradict your supposed intentions.
-AC
Originally posted by sithsaber408
So its' less than 10%?you said it's 1,250,000 abortions a year, right?
and 13,700 are from rapes?
You would need 100,000 just to make it 10%
13,700 (lets' round up and say 14,000) is about 10% of 10%
or....
1.4%
That's how many woman are "forced into a life of hopelesness, joblesness, and dependency".
The rest choose to do so by opening their legs.
And thats a bunch of bullshit anyway, my mom raised me as a single mother, working for the state of California as a Supervisor in Social Services, providing me with a good home, food, clothes and education....
She was neither "hopeless" or "dependent"... in fact, she made such a good living, that she retired at 45, and gets $2,700 a month retirment benefits, living in a place that costs $1,300 a month, and after paying $800 dollars worth of food and bills,...usually has 500 or 600 dollars every month to spend on herself any damn way she pleases.
"hopeless, jobless, and dependent" my ass!
Single mothers have been doing it good for years!! (we won't even get into the cases where the fathers [B]want
to stick around and help raise the child, as it would make you look foolish)My dad wanted me to be an abortion, my mom told him to stick it, and she had me, and did pretty damn good for herself.
That's the problem with this whole debate.
Women can too take care of themselves,and repsonsibility for their lives.
They can raise children, go to school, and have jobs all at the same time. Millions have!
But instead we create this "coddling" culture.
"Well you had sex and got pregnant, that shouldn't have happened. We can't imagine how this will destroy your life, you are so weak and pahtetic. I think the best thing for you, since you obviously can't be expected to deal with your choices (an "archaic" notion) the best thing for all involved is just to end your baby's life. Don't worry it can't feel it, and even if it could, it's still in your magic womb, the uterus of Oz,... until it passes through, it isn't a human. If we hurry and kill it, you won't have to deal with it. Then you can get back to living your life and doing whatever you want (like an adult), but if you get stuck in another sticky situation, just come back and we'll take care of your problem for you. (like a child.)"
It's bullshit plain and simple. [/B]
When are you going to realize that your personal experiences are not representative of the vast majority of people?
Your mother had a job that allowed her to retire 20 years earlier than the age of retirement. This is how she was able to raise you on her own.
Do you honestly believe that the 40% of 14 year old girls who get pregnant before they are 20 years old can and will get a job like this?
What about the three in five women who get abortions that already have children and live below the poverty level?
The fact is that for the vast majority of women, the choice is between having an abortion or living below the line of economic survival. It is between having an abortion or living a life of hopelessness, joblessness, and dependency.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
When are you going to realize that your personal experiences are not representative of the vast majority of people?Your mother had a job that allowed her to retire 20 years earlier than the age of retirement. This is how she was able to raise you on her own.
Do you honestly believe that the 40% of 14 year old girls who get pregnant before they are 20 years old can and will get a job like this?
Well, there are many more out there than my mother, but you can believe what you want, that's your right.
Point of fact, since I was born when she was 23, my mother retiring at 45 had nothing to do with her being able to raise me. She had many years of hard work that she put into raising me. Again, don't disrespect her by saying that she didn't do an awesome job of handling her responsiblities by raising me as a single mother.
And you may not agree, but.... 40% of 14 year old girls should be in shcool, learning, playing sports, or band, or cheerleading, or whatever.
Not having sex.
And, as many of the parents of those girls would help them raise a child so that they could go onto college and get good jobs, it is beside the point.
Now we have moved from "It's a womans right to sleep with whoever she wants and not have to keep a baby... its' her body!!!"...to..."If the poor girls have the babies, they will be destitute,.. penniless in the streets!!!"
So then why all of the fuss about parental notification?
I thought that was for stopping parents who wouldn't let them have the abortions and would want them to keep the babies?
So are these girls alone and destitute, or do they have help and support?
(and isn't either position a little helpless? Too inexperienced and immature for sex anyway?)