Abortion

Originally posted by Makedde
I amaking posts on abortion, I am just talking about different things, using the 'my body my choice' argument. You can use that same statement in many other things, you know.

You keep using these analogies though, and they aren't really illustrating the argument very well.

Out of interest, I saw you mention that you are 'pro-life but not completely pro-life'.

That seemed strange to me; could you outline your position?

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Out of interest, I saw you mention that you are 'pro-life but not completely pro-life'.

That seemed strange to me; could you outline your position?

Well, AC doesn't respect my views, I hope you do.

I have never been 100% pro life. I believe that all abortion is murder, however, I believe that in some circumstances it is okay, such as rape, or if there is something wrong with the baby. I wouldn't want to have a baby, knowing he or she will die after their birth. I'd want to prevent that tramua, so if an abortion can be done in a way that the baby feels as little pain as possible, I'd be for it, even though I feel that it is murder.

I hope you understand me, AC is of the opinion that everyone who is pro life must be against all abortion, and I know from speaking with many pro lifers, that it isn't true.

Originally posted by Makedde
Well, AC doesn't respect my views, I hope you do.

I have never been 100% pro life. I believe that all abortion is murder, however, I believe that in some circumstances it is okay, such as rape, or if there is something wrong with the baby. I wouldn't want to have a baby, knowing he or she will die after their birth. I'd want to prevent that tramua, so if an abortion can be done in a way that the baby feels as little pain as possible, I'd be for it, even though I feel that it is murder.

I hope you understand me, AC is of the opinion that everyone who is pro life must be against all abortion, and I know from speaking with many pro lifers, that it isn't true.

Alpha Centauri's point was that it seems a bit self-rightous to say "abortion is wrong only when I feel it's wrong, so you can do it when I agree with it."

Once again, I have no problem with you feeling this way, but you shouldn't make a law forcing others to obey your values just because you believe they are right. There is an extent to which I don't agree with abortion either, but I don't have the right to tell women you can't use abortion as birth control.

As a matter of fact, I don't think anyone has ever asked you. Do you believe it is right for you to make others follow your view on abortion because you believe it is right?

Originally posted by Makedde
Well, AC doesn't respect my views, I hope you do.

I have never been 100% pro life. I believe that all abortion is murder, however, I believe that in some circumstances it is okay, such as rape, or if there is something wrong with the baby. I wouldn't want to have a baby, knowing he or she will die after their birth. I'd want to prevent that tramua, so if an abortion can be done in a way that the baby feels as little pain as possible, I'd be for it, even though I feel that it is murder.

I hope you understand me, AC is of the opinion that everyone who is pro life must be against all abortion, and I know from speaking with many pro lifers, that it isn't true.

This kind of comes back to the first point I made in this thread, though.

I don't see why in the case of rape the baby's right to be born is precluded.

As far as I see it, if you are going to assert that a foetus is a living human being and it is wrong to kill it, it seems a little bit illogical to start picking and choosing depending on the circumstances leading to its coming into being.

I think she's saying that you can choose if you weren't chosen, but you can't choose if you were chosen, but don't choose to have a baby at that time. Either way, her reasoning makes as much sense as this post without a subtext.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Most "pro-lifers" I have met are of the same opinion you are. It's perfectly fine for you to believe that and accept that you feel this way.

Thank you. 🙂

Originally posted by StyleTime
As a matter of fact, I don't think anyone has ever asked you. Do you believe it is right for you to make others follow your view on abortion because you believe it is right?

Certainly not. I don't think it is fair for pro choicers to expect that everyone should support abortion, eithor. I just want women to be careful with themselves, be responsible for themselves. 🙂

Originally posted by Makedde
Thank you. 🙂

Originally posted by Makedde
Certainly not. I don't think it is fair for pro choicers to expect that everyone should support abortion, eithor. I just want women to be careful with themselves, be responsible for themselves. 🙂

The pro choice side allows everyone to follow their own values.

Originally posted by Makedde
Well, AC doesn't respect my views, I hope you do.

I have never been 100% pro life. I believe that all abortion is murder, however, I believe that in some circumstances it is okay, such as rape, or if there is something wrong with the baby. I wouldn't want to have a baby, knowing he or she will die after their birth. I'd want to prevent that tramua, so if an abortion can be done in a way that the baby feels as little pain as possible, I'd be for it, even though I feel that it is murder.

I hope you understand me, AC is of the opinion that everyone who is pro life must be against all abortion, and I know from speaking with many pro lifers, that it isn't true.

Just so you know, I don't have to respect your view. You have the right to it, but I don't HAVE to respect it. Your views are illogical and irrational and I've proven so many times.

As stated above, you can't say killing is wrong but then pick and choose when it's ok.

-AC

The pro choice side allows everyone to follow their own values.

I respect your views although I don't agree with them, but I respect everyones views, no matter how pathetic I find them. If you don't respect a persons views/opinions, you are, in turn, not respecting that person.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Just so you know, I don't have to respect your view. You have the right to it, but I don't HAVE to respect it. Your views are illogical and irrational and I've proven so many times.

As stated above, you can't say killing is wrong but then pick and choose when it's ok.

-AC

but I respect everyones views, no matter how pathetic I find them

If you don't respect a persons views/opinions, you are, in turn, not respecting that person

Originally posted by Makedde
I respect your views although I don't agree with them, but I respect everyones views, no matter how pathetic I find them. If you don't respect a persons views/opinions, you are, in turn, not respecting that person.

You choose to be so naive in giving out your respect, fine. Not the way the real world works though sweetie.

I don't respect you, or your views. I'm not obligated to respect anyone.

-AC

idd you are not obligated, you are only obligated to treat them with respect

No I'm not, at all.

I'm not exactly going to come in and start being viciously abusive, but I'm not coming in here with some "I've got to treat these people with respect."

If you want to be respected by me, you've got to earn it. I'd say the same for anyone else. The purpose of respect is that it's to be earnt, obligatory respect isn't respect, it's pussyfooting around because you're too scared to stand firm behind your convictions. Non-earned respect is worthless respect.

If you want "I respect you regardless" and "Everyone is right", you wont find it with Alpha Centauri. Sorry. I don't do bullshit and sugar-coating.

-AC

you don't have to sugar coat anything, but IMO not insulting people = treating them with respect, I think we have a different view about what "treating X with respect" actually means.

People here have been insulted by the fact that I don't sugar-coat things though.

I've also seen people feel insulted because their opinions are being challenged. There are some people that you can't avoid insulting.

-AC

abortion should be legal in like the first three months when we know for almost a fact that the fetus has no CONCIOUSNESS. but after that, signs of development of self awareness can not be denied and it is then that the unborn LIFE{which i attribute to awareness} should NOT have to pay the price of the actions of its parents. before that its 100% alright. but ofcourse if there is chance of serious damage to the mother's health or possible death, the fetus should be aborted without fail or hesitation. thas the best way to do it i think.{btw neither stem cells nor early developmental stages of a fetus are HUMANS, thas just plain stupid. theyr no more human than an edible eggyolk is a chicken}

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No I'm not, at all.

I'm not exactly going to come in and start being viciously abusive, but I'm not coming in here with some "I've got to treat these people with respect."

If you want to be respected by me, you've got to earn it. I'd say the same for anyone else. The purpose of respect is that it's to be earnt, obligatory respect isn't respect, it's pussyfooting around because you're too scared to stand firm behind your convictions. Non-earned respect is worthless respect.

If you want "I respect you regardless" and "Everyone is right", you wont find it with Alpha Centauri. Sorry. I don't do bullshit and sugar-coating.

-AC

Sweetness!!!

How do I get to be a member of your special club? 🙄

To be honest, I don't respect you, becuase you haven't earned it,...don't worry, I won't sugar-coat or bullshit you in any way.

You, young one, are a complete and utter moron.

A dipshit of the highest degree.

You sit on these boards, talking down at people with mock superiority, when you're just a looser.

You have nothing better to do with your life than sit around on the computer that mommy and daddy gave you, and pretend that you give a shit if a woman aborts her baby or not.

You've said as much many times, that you could care less what a woman does.

Then shut the f*ck up and step aside while the grown folks work out this problem, and stop trying to get your jollies by pissing people off on the internet.

I for one, will always stand firm behind my convictions, you needn't worry about that.

I know women who have had abortions that left all sorts of negative affects on them (my mother and mother-in-law), women who got pregnant too early and gave the baby up for adoption (my sister-in-law), women who wouldn't have an abortion and kept the baby to raise as a single mother, successfully I might add (my mother, the 2nd time around), and women who don't HAVE to have sex, thus necessating an abortion if an unexpected pregnancy were to occur (my wife's friend Emily, who will be married this month.)

I have real people who I care about that are or have been, affected by this issue.

Not to mention my own personal religious beliefs which have been well documented in this thread. 😛

You, on the other hand, are just spouting off about things that you have no interest in, because you don't like Christianity, defined morality, or any sense of being controlled.

That I will chalk up to you being just out of high school.

You will soon learn that many things in this world are out of an individuals control......

Me, and others like me, mean to make sure that things are out of a person's control in a healthy, life-affirming, positive way.

You're just a nasty little kid, who needs a few friends. (I'm going to venture a guess and say a girlfriend too.)

So don't worry AC, you have no respect .

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Sweetness!!!

How do I get to be a member of your special club? 🙄

To be honest, I don't respect you, becuase you haven't earned it,...don't worry, I won't sugar-coat or bullshit you in any way.

You, young one, are a complete and utter moron.

A dipshit of the highest degree.

You sit on these boards, talking down at people with mock superiority, when you're just a looser.

You have nothing better to do with your life than sit around on the computer that mommy and daddy gave you, and pretend that you give a shit if a woman aborts her baby or not.

You've said as much many times, that you could care less what a woman does.

Then shut the f*ck up and step aside while the grown folks work out this problem, and stop trying to get your jollies by pissing people off on the internet.

I for one, will always stand firm behind my convictions, you needn't worry about that.

I know women who have had abortions that left all sorts of negative affects on them (my mother and mother-in-law), women who got pregnant too early and gave the baby up for adoption (my sister-in-law), women who wouldn't have an abortion and kept the baby to raise as a single mother, successfully I might add (my mother, the 2nd time around), and women who don't HAVE to have sex, thus necessating an abortion if an unexpected pregnancy were to occur (my wife's friend Emily, who will be married this month.)

I have real people who I care about that are or have been, affected by this issue.

Not to mention my own personal religious beliefs which have been well documented in this thread. 😛

You, on the other hand, are just spouting off about things that you have no interest in, because you don't like Christianity, defined morality, or any sense of being controlled.

That I will chalk up to you being just out of high school.

You will soon learn that many things in this world are out of an individuals control......

Me, and others like me, mean to make sure that things are out of a person's control in a healthy, life-affirming, positive way.

You're just a nasty little kid, who needs a few friends. (I'm going to venture a guess and say a girlfriend too.)

So don't worry AC, you have no respect .

Since you told me what you think I Am, I'll tell you what YOU are. You are nothing more than a completely selfish, subliminally misogynistic, abusive idiot who adds nothing but pure insults (albeit laughable) and is more obviously after attention than an epileptic baby throwing a fit.

Get a clue, get a life or get both. Either way, achieve something that resembles intelligence before typing a lengthy post and ruining a good thread with your idiocy.

Now...*Hands you the red ball*

Bounce this until you have the brain neurons to add something to this thread that doesn't include homophobia, misogyny or selfishness.

-AC

Originally posted by leonheartmm
btw neither stem cells nor early developmental stages of a fetus are HUMANS, thas just plain stupid. theyr no more human than an edible eggyolk is a chicken}

That's your opinion, but others will see that 'stem cell' an embyonic one, as a potential life. 🙂