Originally posted by The Black Ghost
"blind you from seeing the truth that not everyone believes in God, is a christian,"--Well they have to figure that out for themselves I suppose. And despite what they beleive, they must endure my rantings. 👿
Figure what out? They don't believe in God and you can't prove that he factually exists. Which means you could have all the faith and conviction in the world and an athiest could walk right up to your face and say "God doesn't exist."
It must hurt deep down to know that the only consolation you have is repeating to yourself "Yeah he does, you don't see it though." Being that you can't prove it.
This needs to be accepted. I've accepted that you believe in God, I support your right to believe in God. What happened to doing unto others as they do unto you? Afford people the same respect they give you.
-AC
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Fine, Ill not press my opinions on you any more. I hope you can come to the right conclusions on your own then...
The right conclusion is whatever I decide is best for me, just like the right conclusion for you is what's best for you.
Why can't you accept this?
-AC
An attempt at a logical statement the Pro-life position:
Religious - Assuming the existence of a god, regardless of whether deity is the one professed by christians, muslims, or that of the hindus; The greatest gift endowed upon us by said creator is life. The world of science has been unable to demonstrate when human life starts. It is therefore preferable to err on the side of caution when dealing with this unknown. A human fetus should be considered alive until and unless proven otherwise. (Disclaimer: As with the taking of human lives I believe that there are instances comparable to self defense, etc. underwhich this would not be immoral, ie rape, life of the mother, etc.)
Legal - According to the 9th ammendment (yes the same one the courts have interpreted to bestow the "right of privacy"😉 All powers not granted the federal govt in the body of the constitution are granted to the states or the individual citizens. It should therefore be given to the states to decide whether abortion should be legal in each respective state. The constitution apparently grants the states said powers and then the citiizens. Most would agree that the taking of human life is wrong. The legal word would be homicide. Some homicides are legal, most aren't. Most also abhor infanticide, even though this practice was common in some cultures (and is even practice to some extent in China today). The difference of opinion is only when taking said life is wrong. The blastula that forms within hours of conception is definitely made of human cells, but is also definitely not viable outside the mother. The question then becomes: whose cells are they? The mother's? Or an as yet unformed human being? A common practice in today's civil law is to award to injured parties potential lost income. Drawing a parallel - the unformed child has greater claim to those cells, and the mother has the same sort of responsibility (although at a biological level) that parents have for children that have already been born (said children not being able to survive without outside help, it is illegal to kill them even though they are not "viable" in the outside world.)
Rational - (I've already kind of given this one) A person should be responsible for their actions. The Legal system in this country is founded on that idea. If I commit theft or murder, I am required to bear a consequence in my life - prison, capital punishment, etc. There are natural consequences and manmade consequences. If I am foolish enough to fall off a ladder, I could get hurt - natural consequence. If I rob a store, I could go to prison - manmade consequence. An abortion is a way of averting a natural consequence, but carries with it it's own consequences. The question of should this consequence be avoided can only be answered based on morality, either that of the would-be mother, or of society at large. Our Society places a large value on life. It should therefore come as no shock to see polls indicating that about 3/4 of the nation favor at least a partial ban on abortions. Until uncertainty about when "life" starts can be cleared up, abortion should be restricted to special cases. To quote a common saying, You break it, you buy it.
Off topic, it might surprise you that although I favor restricting abortions, I favor fetal stem cell research.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
All of that closing rational argument is based on the fact that you dislike women having abortions.Tough shit. I dislike Hollywood adapting Alan Moore movies, so instead of asking to have them banned, I stay away.
-AC
Based on what?!?!
You're reading some other bias into the argument. The only bias present is that life is worth something, even if it's potential life.
-edit-
PS while I do think they should be responsible enough to go 9 months nourishing the fetus, baby, whatever; I don't suggest saddling them with the child for life. Adoption is certainly a viable alternative when there are many couples who for whatever reason can't have kids.
Originally posted by docb77
Based on what?!?!You're reading some other bias into the argument. The only bias present is that life is worth something, even if it's potential life.
The actual life of a human living here should be more valued than that of a potential one/bunch of cells, then. You, like so many others apparantly, fight for the right to life yet strip a person of any right to their own life once they pass a certain age.
Either way, it's not up to you. Don't like abortions, stay away. It really is that simple.
If nobody told you abortions existed, your life wouldn't be worse. You wouldn't be walking around with a Spider-Sense going off. You'd never know.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The actual life of a human living here should be more valued than that of a potential one/bunch of cells, then. You, like so many others apparantly, fight for the right to life yet strip a person of any right to their own life once they pass a certain age.Either way, it's not up to you. Don't like abortions, stay away. It really is that simple.
If nobody told you abortions existed, your life wouldn't be worse. You wouldn't be walking around with a Spider-Sense going off. You'd never know.
-AC
You're right, I'd be in blissful ignorance. Unfortunately, the proverbial genie can't be put back in the bottle. As far as which life should take precedence, I think that a possible 76 years (avg human life expectancy) should take precedence over an approximate 9 months of discomfort.
I'm not fond of theft either, should I just ignore someone I see trying to steal a car?
-edit-
come to think of it, the first few months aren't even that uncomfortable as far as I've seen. Life goes on pretty much as normal until fairly close to the end.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Homosexual sex has nothing to do with abortion.You are making some weak attempt to discredit me or any other person who claims to be Christian with an opinon on political issues.
I dont agree that condoms are the same as abortion.
As you say, sperm is one HALF of the first step of life, the egg is another.
Until joined, they are just cells. A woman's period or a man ejaculating is NOT the ending of a human life, as no human life has been formed.
Continue to play "lets take the next logical step" if you like, but the two things are not the same.
In other words, it is okay to waste the potential for human life so long as it is done through methods with which you approve, i.e. masturbation, contraceptives, and sterilization, but not through methods with which you disapprove, i.e. abortion.
In other words, it is okay to prevent the development of human life so long as it is done during a moment with which you approve, i.e. one second before fertilization, but not during a moment with which you disapprove, i.e. one second after fertilization.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
However, to be perfectly frank, we ARE going against God's will.But our society has changed over the millenia, to make having the means to sustain a multiple-child family much more difficult to attain, and so people use the contraceptives.
We, in this case, have caved.
To the worlds time scale, to the pressures to get a full education, a house, and be accomplished before having children.
We are sinners too, saved by grace.
However, (speaking of the Conservative Christian married having protected sex group) we are prepared to accept the responsibilty of having a child and loving it and raising it, were the contraception to fail.
In many cases, women cave to the time scale of the world, to the pressures to get a full education, to have a home, and become accomplished before having children.
Society has changed, making it difficult to attain the means necessary to sustain a multiple child family.
For these reasons, some women choose to have abortions.