Abortion

Originally posted by Bardock42
Not really. That reminds me of this Churchill thing. What it takes to be part of a party is to agree with it when it is wrong. Pro-choice is not a party. You don't need to agree with every opinion of the group. Everyone is an individual. We jsut have a somewhat similar idea. That abortion should to some extend be legal. And that we disagree with the pro-lifer view on the matter.

then it should be an "anti____" group instead of a "pro_____" group.
anti___ is the common trait.

Originally posted by PVS
then it should be an "anti____" group instead of a "pro_____" group.
anti___ is the common trait.

But you want the woman to have a choice, right?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I got it from what pro-life means. Which is that the foetus has equal right to life to that of a human and any intentional killing of it, at any cost, is wrong. If you don't adhere to that, you're not pro-life. It's really that simple because the concept of pro-life is absolute.

"Pro-life generally refers to a political movement that [b]opposes abortion. The movement began after the 1973 United States Supreme Court decision known as Roe v. Wade that deemed abortion a constitutional right. The pro-life view has grown to encompass opposition to euthanasia, human cloning, and human embryonic stem cell research. Pro-life adherents argue that these issues concern the right to life of human beings. The most common pro-life view is that life begins at conception and that any intentional killing of that life is wrong."

-AC [/B]

Where did you get that quote by the way?

Originally posted by Bardock42
But you want the woman to have a choice, right?

to a point, so considering there is no "pro-choice...to a point" camp, then the title given to me is false.

Originally posted by PVS
to a point, so considering there is no "pro-choice...to a point" camp, then the title given to me is false.

Okay, then lets together not be pro-choice but want women to have a choice....to a point.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Okay, then lets together not be pro-choice but want women to have a choice....to a point.

ah, but then "to a point" is a slippery slope. then you're in the same group with people who feel that a woman should only have a choice to abort when their lives are at stake, but at the same time have no right to abort a rapists offspring. so they would be pro-choice....to a point.

Originally posted by PVS
ah, but then "to a point" is a slippery slope. then you're in the same group with people who feel that a woman should only have a choice to abort when their lives are at stake, but at the same time have no right to abort a rapists offspring. so they would be pro-choice....to a point.

True...well, then lets all be together in a group called "pro-my own opinion"....deal?

Originally posted by Eis
So who decided that's the official meaning of the term? The concept of pro-life isn't absolute. Pro-life is a political movement that opposes abortion, there are exceptions.

Where did you get that quote by the way?

Look what they also say about islamic PRO-LIFERS:

Islam does provide for some exceptions where abortion is permissible, albeit as a "lesser evil", such as when the woman's life is in jeopardy.

Originally posted by Bardock42
True...well, then lets all be together in a group called "pro-my own opinion"....deal?

i'll just express my opinion at the ballots

Sorry for the delayed reply. For the record, I don't hold Wikipedia as gospel being that it's just info updated by anyone. Though we can all recognise the movement.

Originally posted by Eis
So who decided that's the official meaning of the term? The concept of pro-life isn't absolute. Pro-life is a political movement that opposes abortion, there are exceptions.

Yeah, those are called pro-choicers. Those exceptions. Or if not, something else. Certainly not pro-life.

Maybe the correct way of saying it isn't "You're pro-life or pro-choice", but "If you're not totally against abortions, you're not pro-life." Which is true.

You can't adhere to a movement that opposes abortion under the idea of "Foetuses have right to life" and then condone the intentional killing of that "life". That means you are not pro-life. It's like people who say "I'm vegetarian....but I eat a tiny bit of meat in some cases."

Then you're not vegetarian. Just like condoning abortion in any way renders you incapable of being pro-life.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Sorry for the delayed reply. For the record, I don't hold Wikipedia as gospel being that it's just info updated by anyone. Though we can all recognise the movement.

Yeah, those are called pro-choicers. Those exceptions. Or if not, something else. Certainly not pro-life.

Maybe the correct way of saying it isn't "You're pro-life or pro-choice", but "If you're not totally against abortions, you're not pro-life." Which is true.

You can't adhere to a movement that opposes abortion under the idea of "Foetuses have right to life" and then condone the intentional killing of that "life". That means you are not pro-life. It's like people who say "I'm vegetarian....but I eat a tiny bit of meat in some cases."

Then you're not vegetarian. Just like condoning abortion in any way renders you incapable of being pro-life.

-AC

its a double standard. i just implied a restriction on a woman's right to choose, yet that is somehow washed away and i am pro-choice? how does that make sense?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Sorry for the delayed reply. For the record, I don't hold Wikipedia as gospel being that it's just info updated by anyone. Though we can all recognise the movement.

Yeah, those are called pro-choicers. Those exceptions. Or if not, something else. Certainly not pro-life.

Maybe the correct way of saying it isn't "You're pro-life or pro-choice", but "If you're not totally against abortions, you're not pro-life." Which is true.

You can't adhere to a movement that opposes abortion under the idea of "Foetuses have right to life" and then condone the intentional killing of that "life". That means you are not pro-life. It's like people who say "I'm vegetarian....but I eat a tiny bit of meat in some cases."

Then you're not vegetarian. Just like condoning abortion in any way renders you incapable of being pro-life.

-AC

You sincerely believe there are no exceptions? There are always exceptions. If some pro-life activist is asked "Ok, decide, the whole world dies or one unborn fetus dies." and the pro-life activist decides for the fetus to be killed, does that mean he's pro-choice? No...

I still haven't seen one (reliable) site that says pro-life is an absolute term and has no exceptions.

All you're backing up your argument with is what you think pro-life means.

Originally posted by PVS
its a double standard. i just implied a restriction on a woman's right to choose, yet that is somehow washed away and i am pro-choice? how does that make sense?

I'm not the one calling you pro-choice. Bardock is. I don't consider you pro-choice. I consider you someone, like many (so I'm not really having a go at you here), who doesn't have it in them to pick one and go all the way with it. Which is why there are problems.

That can't happen when pro-LIFE is your concern though, for reasons I've stated upward of 50 times (I'm exaggerating, but it's probably close).

-AC

What the hell. Either way, whoever of you is right (PVS and AC), the terms pro-life and pro-choice will be pointless.

Originally posted by Bardock42
But you are wrong. Think different. DO IT!

i dont have to because im not stupid and i dont get my self pregnant like all the girls in my school. so i cant do any thing.

Originally posted by Eis
No... That quote was under "Religious pro-life". They are pro-life but they believe there are some exceptions.

You sincerely believe there are no exceptions? There are always exceptions. If some pro-life activist is asked "Ok, decide, the whole world dies or one unborn fetus dies." and the pro-life activist decides for the fetus to be killed, does that mean he's pro-choice? No...

Yes, way to go. Illustrate a realistic point with an unrealistic hypothetical. There are no realistic and unexaggerated exceptions to the pro-life rule, regardless of how extreme it is. You either believe abortion is wrong, and you are pro-life, or you do not.

Originally posted by Eis
I still haven't seen one (reliable) site that says pro-life is an absolute term and has no exceptions.

All you're backing up your argument with is what you think pro-life means.

It's not what I think it means, is it? We all know that pro-life is the belief that the foetus has a right to life and that abortion is wrong. That's what pro-life is. The part where we're hitting confusion is you believing that you can be pro-life but also for some abortions. You can't.

Like I said, you're not vegetarian if you eat meat. It doesn't matter if you eat 10 steaks a year on special occassion and the rest is wheatgrass. Same with abortion. If you can say "Abortion is ok" then you are not pro-life.

-AC

Originally posted by BabyGirl_23
i dont have to because im not stupid and i dont get my self pregnant like all the girls in my school. so i cant do any thing.

Still, why shouldn't they have the right to abort?

Originally posted by BabyGirl_23
i dont have to because im not stupid and i dont get my self pregnant like all the girls in my school. so i cant do any thing.

All the girls in your school get themselves pregnant? Sweet! Now it really is their choice. Especially with no father to have a say.

A-sexual reproduction may save us yet.

-AC

Yes, way to go. Illustrate a realistic point with an unrealistic hypothetical. There are no realistic and unexaggerated exceptions to the pro-life rule, regardless of how extreme it is. You either believe abortion is wrong, and you are pro-life, or you do not.

It's not what I think it means, is it? We all know that pro-life is the belief that the foetus has a right to life and that abortion is wrong. That's what pro-life is. The part where we're hitting confusion is you believing that you can be pro-life but also for some abortions. You can't.

Like I said, you're not vegetarian if you eat meat. It doesn't matter if you eat 10 steaks a year on special occassion and the rest is wheatgrass. Same with abortion. If you can say "Abortion is ok" then you are not pro-life.

-AC

Vegetarian does have an absolute meaning, unlike pro-life. Go look pro-life in a dictionary.

When you give me reliable proof to your argument, I'll step back and admit I was wrong.

Originally posted by Eis
Vegetarian does have an absolute meaning, unlike pro-life. Go look pro-life in a dictionary.

When you give me reliable proof to your argument, I'll step back and admit I was wrong.

Yes, yes it does have an absolute meaning.

As you requested:

http://www.answers.com/topic/pro-life
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pro-life
http://www.miriamwebster.com/dictionary/pro-life

I'm pretty sure all of those say "Opposed to abortion."

Not "Opposed to abortion...oh, unless you agree with it." That's christian/catholic "Thou shalt not kill unless you want to" mentality. Coincidentally, a lot of pro-lifers are religious.

-AC