Originally posted by Bardock42
Let me try this again: There is no legalized murder.
But isn't the law sometimes wrong? Isn't it at all possible that the law, while saying that abortion is not murder, may actually be wrong? As I said, not enough is known about the unborn to decide eithor way whether or not abortion is murder.
Originally posted by Bardock42
The Death Penalty (if you like it or not) is not murder.
Because it is legal? The death penalty executes an actual person, not a fetus. If abortion is not considered to be murder because the fetus is not a person, how can any other killing be legal if the killing involves an actual person? 😕
Originally posted by PrincessMary
But isn't the law sometimes wrong? Isn't it at all possible that the law, while saying that abortion is not murder, may actually be wrong? As I said, not enough is known about the unborn to decide eithor way whether or not abortion is murder.
Not really, because murder is a term defined by law. The Law cannot be wrong about it.
Let me give you an example, you are a scientist after all.
If I define 2 plus 2 to equal 4 then that is set for me. If someone now argues that I in fact defined 2 plus 2 to equal 5 they are wrong...not I.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
how so?If a life ends, it's still "termination". As far as teh bible is concerned, that's state condoned murder. And while the bible might condone it, "morality" does not. But, I'm not a very moral person, am I?
Because the death penalty is not unlawful...so it is no murder.
Originally posted by PrincessMary
Because it is legal? The death penalty executes an actual person, not a fetus. If abortion is not considered to be murder because the fetus is not a person, how can any other killing be legal if the killing involves an actual person? 😕
Hey, I never doubted that it is killing...but it is not murder....those are separated terms. The abortion side also wouldn't win anything by claiming it. It just isn't murder.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Not really, because murder is a term defined by law. The Law cannot be wrong about it.Let me give you an example, you are a scientist after all.
I never said I was a scientist, I think I asked a valid question. Thank you for answering, although I don't agree. About the abortion thing, that is, not about the math. 🙂
Originally posted by Bardock42
Because the death penalty is not unlawful...so it is no murder.Hey, I never doubted that it is killing...but it is not murder....those are separated terms. The abortion side also wouldn't win anything by claiming it. It just isn't murder.
Okay, I was just a little confused. On one hand, abortion is legal because it is the killing of a non human, but on the other, the death penalty is legal, and it is the killing of an actual human. It just seems a little odd to me, is all. 😕
Originally posted by PrincessMary
I never said I was a scientist, I think I asked a valid question. Thank you for answering, although I don't agree. About the abortion thing, that is, not about the math. 🙂
Well, I understand what you try to argue, and that is valid, but you word it wrong.
You don't want to say "The Law is wrong and abortion is murder" you mean that you disagree with the definition of the law and it should be change to include murder....
Originally posted by PrincessMary
Okay, I was just a little confused. On one hand, abortion is legal because it is the killing of a non human, but on the other, the death penalty is legal, and it is the killing of an actual human. It just seems a little odd to me, is all. 😕
Abortion is not murder for two reasons I know of, the death penalty for one.
Originally posted by Bardock42
You don't want to say "The Law is wrong and abortion is murder" you mean that you disagree with the definition of the law and it should be change to include murder....
I didn't say the law was wrong, I said it could be possible that the law is wrong. I don't think anyone, not even the law, can say whether or not abortion is murder. If, in 20 years time, the law on abortion changes, this would have to mean that for the past 50 or so years, the law was wrong in it's definition of abortion, otherwise, the law would never have been changed. 🙂
Originally posted by PrincessMary
I didn't say the law was wrong, I said it could be possible that the law is wrong. I don't think anyone, not even the law, can say whether or not abortion is murder. If, in 20 years time, the law on abortion changes, this would have to mean that for the past 50 or so years, the law was wrong in it's definition of abortion, otherwise, the law would never have been changed. 🙂
And if that is changed agai`n?
I think you jsut can't say the law is wrong. The law just is. Nothing more. And the law says abortion is not murder. And murder being a legal term is defined by the law. So whatever the law says now means it is true at the moment.
Originally posted by PrincessMary
Would the other reason be because the law tells us it is not murder?
Originally posted by Bardock42
I think you jsut can't say the law is wrong. The law just is. Nothing more. And the law says abortion is not murder. And murder being a legal term is defined by the law. So whatever the law says now means it is true at the moment.
I agree, in part. I don't believe we have to believe everything the law tells us. If someone believes abortion is murder, fine. Their opinion doesn't affect me, nor does it affect what the law tells us. But, as I said, what if the law were to change? What if, years down the track, the law defined abortion as being murder? Would the law still be right in it's definition, even though it had to have been wrong before?
Originally posted by PrincessMary
I agree, in part. I don't believe we have to believe everything the law tells us. If someone believes abortion is murder, fine. Their opinion doesn't affect me, nor does it affect what the law tells us. But, as I said, what if the law were to change? What if, years down the track, the law defined abortion as being murder? Would the law still be right in it's definition, even though it had to have been wrong before?
Well, they may believe that for all i care, but they are wrong. Since Abortion isn't murder.
If the law changes for somereason and says abortion is murder then abortion would be murder. That doesn't mean that the law was wrong before though.
Originally posted by Bardock42
If the law changes for somereason and says abortion is murder then abortion would be murder.
Then the law would have said first that abortion wasn't murder, then that it was. How could it change it's mind just like that?
Originally posted by Bardock42
That doesn't mean that the law was wrong before though.
No, it just means that the law can't make up it's jolly old mind!
One question: Abortion is illegal in Ireland. All those living in Ireland who believe abortion is not murder would be wrong, correct?
Does this mean that law is correct in your country, and also correct in a country like Ireland?
Originally posted by dave_kodak
u bastards!
by the time i get to page 324, u boys & girl would have made it go to page 461 or something.
im never going to get it all done. grrrrr why did i stop last night. i could be page 100 by now.
With such a senstive issue being debated, you have to get in quick! 😄
Originally posted by PrincessMary
Then the law would have said first that abortion wasn't murder, then that it was. How could it change it's mind just like that?No, it just means that the law can't make up it's jolly old mind!
One question: Abortion is illegal in Ireland. All those living in Ireland who believe abortion is not murder would be wrong, correct?
Does this mean that law is correct in your country, and also correct in a country like Ireland?
Well...the answer is "just like that"...I don't really know what you try to get at here.
Nope, it jsut means that definitions change over time. There's nothing wrongwith it, although I doubt this will happen with "murder" anytime soon.
I doubt the law in Ireland considers abortion murder. To be murder it does not only need to be unlawful. If in Ireland someone gets an abortion, are they charged with murder? I doubt it. Because it is not murder.