Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Okay so PVS, you are obviously for it. Do you fight for women's rights? Did you vote to help keep abortion an option in our clinics ?
wtf is wrong with you? it was sarcasm.
only a sick and twisted **** would be ecstatic about abortions.
i feel that during the early term a woman should have a right to abort, for any reason, and in late term only be able to abort when its harmful or life threatening. that aside, i think in a perfect world there would be no abortions. in other words i dont feel in any way that abortion rocks.
I'm sure what I'm going to say now was said like 100 times during these 338 pages, but I want to express my opinion.
Abortion is murder, woman must not do that and not because I or anyone else told her so, but because she must realise it herself.
If she and her partner were not carefull enough and are going to have a child they didn't wanted, they must take responsibility. No baby must die only because it does not fit in someone's timetable.
Originally posted by Sam Z
I'm sure what I'm going to say now was said like 100 times during these 338 pages, but I want to express my opinion.
Abortion is murder, woman must not do that and not because I or anyone else told her so, but because she must realise it herself.
If she and her partner were not carefull enough and are going to have a child they didn't wanted, they must take responsibility. No baby must die only because it does not fit in someone's timetable.
Well, I disagree, but could you maybe not call it murder? It isn't. I'd prefer that the next time you state your opinion you say:
I'm sure what I'm going to say now was said like 100 times during these 338 pages, but I want to express my opinion.
Abortion is horrible, immoral slaughtering of potential humans , woman must not do that and not because I or anyone else told her so, but because she must realise it herself.
If she was not carefull enough and is going to have a child she didn't wanted first, she must take responsibility. No baby must die only because it does not fit in someone's timetable.
Originally posted by PVS
wtf is wrong with you? it was sarcasm.only a sick and twisted **** would be ecstatic about abortions.
i feel that during the early term a woman should have a right to abort, for any reason, and in late term only be able to abort when its harmful or life threatening. that aside, i think in a perfect world there would be no abortions. in other words i dont feel in any way that abortion rocks.
Then PVS...we actually AGREE on something. I think if a woman is going to get an abortion, she should get one AS SOON as possible.
Otherwise, if its later term, if the fetus threatens her life (such as in Fallopian Tubal birth) then she has every right to an abortion without having to feel guilty about anything.
This is why i would never act out against it. It's not my right. But i still view Abortion as an "easy way out" and as "killing for convienence"
Is it murder? No, not my legal definition, so i took that back a long time ago.
But it is still killing, and is not justifiable unless given those above circumstances.
Bardock would you be so kind as to give us the legal definition of murder, so that the clarification can be MADE and UNDERSTOOD ?
Is it the killing of a CITIZEN or the killing of a HUMAN BEING ?
Because obviously, the Law does not recognize a young fetus as a citizem. They treat it like any other parasite.
However, there is NO denying the fetus is HUMAN.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Because obviously, the Law does not recognize a young fetus as a citizem. They treat it like any other parasite.
a fetus is neither. a parasite acts in the same manner, but does so inter-species. however, an early and midterm fetus is entirely dependant on the mother to sustain its continued developement. so, it cannot be considered a seperate life since it is at that point an extention of the mother's body. thats why i feel that the proper threshold for fetus/baby would be when the fetus/child is capable of living outside the mother, whether or not it is actually born yet. i feel at that point, its a seperate 'life'.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Bardock would you be so kind as to give us the legal definition of murder, so that the clarification can be MADE and UNDERSTOOD ?Is it the killing of a CITIZEN or the killing of a HUMAN BEING ?
Because obviously, the Law does not recognize a young fetus as a citizem. They treat it like any other parasite.
However, there is NO denying the fetus is HUMAN.
It's not yet human....
Here:
the crime of unlawfully and unjustifiably killing another under circumstances defined by statute (as with premeditation); especially : such a crime committed purposely, knowingly, and recklessly with extreme indifference to human life or during the course of a serious felony (as robbery or rape)
Of course the fetus is human, it's not any other species. The catch is that it isn't born yet. It isn't a productive organsism. It can't survive without being attachted to the mother.
It's like cracking open an egg for breakfast. You aren't eating chicken, you're eating egg, although it is still a chicken egg.
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Of course the fetus is human, it's not any other species. The catch is that it isn't born yet. It isn't a productive organsism. It can't survive without being attachted to the mother.It's like cracking open an egg for breakfast. You aren't eating chicken, you're eating egg, although it is still a chicken egg.
Well yeah...it's a human fetus...not a human.
Originally posted by PVS
a fetus is neither. a parasite acts in the same manner, but does so inter-species. however, an early and midterm fetus is entirely dependant on the mother to sustain its continued developement. so, it cannot be considered a seperate life since it is at that point an extention of the mother's body. thats why i feel that the proper threshold for fetus/baby would be when the fetus/child is capable of living outside the mother, whether or not it is actually born yet. i feel at that point, its a seperate 'life'.
Good point. But someone can easily argue that since the fetus is partially the Egg, and partially the Sperm than it is only 50% part of the woman's being, and 50% part its own being.
It is only connected by Placenta, and encased within the Uterus.
Now yes, I beleive that since the mother actually GIVES birth that she has more rights than the father in what happens to the fetus/child, but that is a whole other argument, so let me not branch off 2 far.
Many people beleive that the child is ONLY is own human being once it comes out of the Vagina.
I think this kind of logic is severly flawed.
Whether or not it's a separate life...well it is definately a separate body once it is detached from its mother.
But separate life all together ? The fetus has its own conciousness...not its own identity, true. But its own conciousness, so how does it not have its own "life" when its still a fetus ?
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well yeah...it's a human fetus...not a human.
So a human child, a human pre teen, a human teenager, a human young adult, a human older adult, a human elder, etc.
Those are all true humans?
But a fetus is not ?
I suppose you may also beleive that once the human being is DEAD, that it is no longer a human being either.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Actually it is. Murder is when you take someone's life on purpose. What makes those children worse than you or me?
Murder is only a legal term, and since that legal term states clearly that it is the unlawful killing of a human being independent of itself with pre-meditated malice, it doesn't apply to abortion.
This is a stone cold, hard fact. End of argument. This is exactly why the thread goes nowhere. As one person finally gets it, another oblivious fool crawls out of the woodwork.
-AC