Abortion

Originally posted by Sam Z
After you was born. By your "logic" it means child who was born a minute ago deserves to leave but child who is going to be born in a minute not because he didn't LIVED yet.👆

i guess so. maybe i shouldnt have said that. oh wait, thats right. i didn't.
i didnt suspect that you were putting words in my mouth, but the 3 year old grammar clued me in, and here we are.
now, junior, read my post again for what it says. read slowly this time so you can understand it:

Originally posted by PVS
no, i call life everything that happens after you are born, and even while you are capable of sustaining your own bodily functionality outside the womb, however still unborn.

if all you can do is put words in my mouth and run with your own imaginary argument, maybe you should just be silent, take a 'time out', and let the grownups debate the topic.

kthxbye

Nobody said it wasn't.

-AC

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Okay, in what scenario?

Give an example ?

I've given lke 50 in the course of a 300+ page argument. If the baby is unwanted, there are going to be more mothers just dumping their baby in a garbage can and going home. The baby is dead at that point anyway, she should have had the abortion.

I can't believe you couldn't think of that on your own.

I read somewhere, I think it was Yahoo News, that the home abortion rate (not sure if it was worldwide or UK) is up by a significant margin.

I'd rather it happen in hospital or a clinic, safely.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I read somewhere, I think it was Yahoo News, that the home abortion rate (not sure if it was worldwide or UK) is up by a significant margin.

I'd rather it happen in hospital or a clinic, safely.

-AC

Exactly. And if its outlawed, the rates will rise. Abortion is not going to stop because some fat rich guy in a business suit and a legal title wants it to.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
I've given lke 50 in the course of a 300+ page argument. If the baby is unwanted, there are going to be more mothers just dumping their baby in a garbage can and going home. The baby is dead at that point anyway, she should have had the abortion.

I can't believe you couldn't think of that on your own.

Excuse me for not sorting through 300 pages of debate. 🙄

Adoption is always an option. You're example is totally flawed, you are making assumptions that just because the MOTHER doesn't want the baby, that no one else will either.

You can't speak for every human being on the planet, so don't try.

I never sed that I'm for BANNING abortion..i must have sed that a million times, i simply stated that Abortion is immoral killing no matter how you put it.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Excuse me for not sorting through 300 pages of debate. 🙄

Adoption is always an option. You're example is totally flawed, you are making assumptions that just because the MOTHER doesn't want the baby, that no one else will either.

You can't speak for every human being on the planet, so don't try.

I never sed that I'm for BANNING abortion..i must have sed that a million times, i simply stated that Abortion is immoral killing no matter how you put it.

I don't think it is immoral... 💃

... no matter how YOU put it.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Excuse me for not sorting through 300 pages of debate. 🙄

Adoption is always an option. You're example is totally flawed, you are making assumptions that just because the MOTHER doesn't want the baby, that no one else will either.

You can't speak for every human being on the planet, so don't try.

I never sed that I'm for BANNING abortion..i must have sed that a million times, i simply stated that Abortion is immoral killing no matter how you put it.

My example is not flawed, considering that abortion IS legal, and mother already HAVE thrown away their babies in dumpsters. NO WAI!!!!

Besides, I don't think you realize how difficult it is to get an adoption, and not everyone is ok that their mother didnt even want them.

I've already stated that people who want adoptions, most notibly gay couples, are being barred from it! How much sense does that make, hm?

And my last point is that if the mother doesn't want/can't go through childbirth, she shouldn't be forced to.

The thing about abortion that bothers me is how it is so abused. Two teens act irresponsibly... oops oh well too bad all we got to do is get an abortion and problem solved.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Abortion is immoral killing no matter how you put it.

what of a case where the mother will die and the fetus is doomed anyway? if she has an abortion to save her life, then thats convenient...which means it would be a 'killing for convenience' (assuming we can call it 'killing'😉

so how is that immoral?

Originally posted by PVS
what of a case where the mother will die and the fetus is doomed anyway? if she has an abortion to save her life, then thats convenient...which means it would be a 'killing for convenience' (assuming we can call it 'killing'😉

so how is that immoral?

This is a major exception.

To me, there are TWO major exceptions, which IVE STATED BEFORE:

1) In the case where the Fetus threatens the life of the mother, for example the fetus developed in the Fallopian Tube instead of the Uterus, than the mother has no choice.

She has to do what she has to do to save her own life.

This is NOT a matter of "convienence". This is a matter of saving one's own life and survival.

2) RAPE: If the mother was raped, then not only was her BODY violated, but so was her ability to CHOOSE. She never even chose to have sex, much less get pregnant.

Since this is in NO WAY due to irresponsibility or carelessness, then having the abortion in this manner is not a matter of "convienence". The ENTIRE choice was taken away from her. She was FORCED into this pregnancy, and therefore has every right to abort it.

In the events where these are not the cases, and the mother simply decides to have the abortion because she "dont feel like having the baby right now".....that's killing for convienence.

And in that case, its immoral in my opinion.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

In the events where these are not the cases, and the mother simply decides to have the abortion because she "dont feel like having the baby right now".....that's killing for convienence.

And in that case, its immoral in my opinion.

The inability to physically or financially raise the child doesn't even cross into your head? Or a broken condom or a forgotten pill?

You're awesome. 👇

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
The inability to physically or financially raise the child doesn't even cross into your head? Or a broken condom or a forgotten pill?

You're awesome. 👇

Ahhh....Arachnid...Arachnid......

The inability to physically or financially raise the child can be solved through the Adoption Process. 😉

Broken Condom....An abortion done for this reason is one of not taking personal responsibility and therefore "killing for convienence"

Forgotten Pill ....AGAIN...Neglegence on the woman's part, not taking responsibility for one's actions, and therefore again "killing for convienence"

You cannot compare a "broken condom" or "forgotten pill" scenario to a more justifiable reason like "I was raped" Or "the fetus is threatning my life".

Poor Argument dude 👇

Hey, you'll stump me Next Time: 😉

I just went over the whole abortion thing with you and you completely ignored the fact that it's a horribly ineffecient system and it bars certain people from adopting children for ****ing retarded reasons. "Gay couple" is one of those retarded reasons.

Because it's fully in a person's control to not break stuff!

So when was the last time you broke something? Never? zOMG U MST B JEZUS!!11!one

Penalizing a woman for being human and forgetting is just about as evil as you can get.

Forcing a woman to go through childbirth if she can't keep her child(even if she dearly wants it) is cruel.

And since you agree that abortion should be kept legal anyway, what the hell are you arguing for?

WINKWINK****ingWINKSMILIE 😉 😉 zomg im so cool for using a winksmilie!!11

I just went over the whole abortion thing with you and you completely ignored the fact that it's a horribly ineffecient system and it bars certain people from adopting children for ****ing retarded reasons. "Gay couple" is one of those retarded reasons.

Hence, we need to fix the Adoption crisis, and people need to recognize Gay people as normal people just like everyone else.

Because it's fully in a person's control to not break stuff!

No ur right. But it is within a person's ability to make amends for what they break.

So when was the last time you broke something? Never? zOMG U MST B JEZUS!!11!one

Bro, im sure I've broken more condoms then you have. 😉

Penalizing a woman for being human and forgetting is just about as evil as you can get.

I agree. Which is why I've said a million times I would NEVER FORCE a woman to bear child birth. I am against Abortion, but i wouldn't fight to BAN it. I think ALL options should be put on the table.

Forcing a woman to go through childbirth if she can't keep her child(even if she dearly wants it) is cruel.

I agree with you 100%. I've said this a NUMBER of times, ask PVS, ask AC.

And since you agree that abortion should be kept legal anyway, what the hell are you arguing for?

Ah...the dumbest of all questions. Because I HAVE an opinion, and i have every right to speak it. I think it is immoral in the case of pure convienence.

You are asking me WHY my opinion is not a BLACK or WHITE one? There ARE shades of GREY you know......😉

WINKWINK****ingWINKSMILIE zomg im so cool for using a winksmilie!!11

😉😉😉

But your opinion, even when enforced, won't change anything. Opinons of those against abortion change something, they can get the damn operation banned. Pro choicers are trying to keep it legal. You're sort of just sitting in the middle shouting...but doing nothing.

"My opinion is that it's wrong! but dont do anything to change the law! just know my opinion even though it's not going to affect anything in any way!"

Hmm.

I will say this though. Abortion should be the last resort, the mornng after pill is effective over 98% of the time. It's already free in many areas and should be an over the counter drug in a few years.

I'd also like you, Urizen, to spend 20 hours pushing a softball out of your anus. Then you might not be so quick to judge women who get abortions.

absolute statement:

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Abortion is immoral killing no matter how you put it.

followed by this in your next post:

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
This is a major exception.

and sprinkle a shitload of cherry-picked hypothetical scenarios where the woman plays the part of the $lut who just decides not to have a baby because babies are sooooo last year. your posts are filled with this nonesense and its useless.

and i dont care if you claim to not support pro-lifers. its irrelevent to the discussion and nobody cares. but you want us to believe that 99.999% of women who get abortions are petty and selfish whores....although you support their right to do it....fine

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
But your opinion, even when enforced, won't change anything. Opinons of those against abortion change something, they can get the damn operation banned. Pro choicers are trying to keep it legal. You're sort of just sitting in the middle shouting...but doing nothing.

"My opinion is that it's wrong! but dont do anything to change the law! just know my opinion even though it's not going to affect anything in any way!"

Hmm.

I will say this though. Abortion should be the last resort, the mornng after pill is effective over 98% of the time. It's already free in many areas and should be an over the counter drug in a few years.

I'd also like you, Urizen, to spend 20 hours pushing a softball out of your anus. Then you might not be so quick to judge women who get abortions.

So if I don't actively fight to Ban Abortion, i shouldn't say my opinion on it ?

You guys think Abortion IS moral in all cases, so do you guys ACTIVELY fight to KEEP abortion? Do you guys email President Bush asking him to leave the Abortion issue alone?

I need to have a BLACK or WHITE opinion, and an opinion that is less than 100% is worthless ?

I DON'T JUDGE women at all. I just don't thnk its moral to kill a living fetus for your convienence. But then again, there lies a certain truth.😖ometimes you HAVE To do the immoral thing to get ahead.

I think a woman has every right to make her own decision. Whether or not it is the right or wrong decision.

I am MERELY arguing as to WHY i think the decision to have an Abortion is wrong. 😉

Originally posted by PVS
absolute statement:

followed by this in your next post:

and sprinkle a shitload of cherry-picked hypothetical scenarios where the woman plays the part of the $lut who just decides not to have a baby because babies are sooooo last year. your posts are filled with this nonesense and its useless.

and i dont care if you claim to not support pro-lifers. its irrelevent to the discussion and nobody cares. but you want us to believe that 99.999% of women who get abortions are petty and selfish whores....although you support their right to do it....fine

Damn....whats up your a$$ today ? Relax dude...its JUST a debate...nothing more nothing less.

I NEVER said that a woman who has an abortion is a $lut. NEVER so don't shove that sh*t down my mouth, alright ?

nobody cares? Who are you to speak for everyone? You don't know this, so this statement is invalid.

99.99999% of women? When did i EVER bring up this statistic ?

PLEASE stop shoving words in my mouth alright? Don't claim that I said something I never said. I make my opinion clear to newcomers who feel I am hypocritical in my stance.

I don't care what your opinion of ME or my opinion is, PVS, im done debating with YOU...we both know where we each stand.

I am still debating with other people like Omega and Arachnid on the matter however. 😉

You aren't debating with me, that would imply that this discussion is actually getting somewhere. It isn't. You and me both will not stop abortion, however much you are against it. So arguing with you is rather pointless.