Abortion

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
its JUST a debate...nothing more nothing less.

then start debating and stop reinventing the general reality of women who have had abortions, through fictional anecdotes.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
We're not discussing born babies, we're discussing foetuses.

Have you ever seen one? They look disgusting.

-AC

We all were disgusting.......ah, not me though..

A valid argument consists of a set of premises which support a particular conclusion.

The topic of this thread is "Do you believe in abortion," i.e. do you believe that a woman has a right to choose to have an abortion?

There are several valid arguments in response to this question:

[list][*]Yes, I believe that a woman has a right to choose to have an abortion for the following reasons...

[*]No, I do not believe that a woman has a right to choose to have an abortion for the following reasons...

[*]I believe that a woman has a right to choose to have an abortion in some instances, but not in others for the following reasons...

[*]I am uncertain whether a woman has a right to choose to have an abortion for the following reasons...[/list]

If it is your argument that "Yes, I believe that a woman has a a right to choose to have an abortion," then you need to give reasons why you believe that a woman has a right to choose to have an abortion, not reasons why you believe that abortion is wrong.

The reasons you believe that abortion is wrong do not support your conclusion that a woman has a right to choose to have an abortion, so why are you sharing them?

Hopefully, you will read this, learn something, and stop arguing like a complete idiot.

I like that post.

I predict: "But its my opinon!!1!" for a response.

Again, the whole "OMG, you shouldn't be allowed to murder a fetus because it's a person even though it is not defined as murder nor as an actual human being" logic has been debated before, and ended in a standstill.

Start reading here http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=306413&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=265, and come back when you're finished.

kthxbi!

Gee, I'm just full of these tonight.

Are you pro-life, pro-choice, or pro-abortion?

This was the actual question asked at the start of the thread Adam Poe.

Pro-life, pro choice, or pro abortion ?????

WAt? I thought pro-choice WAS pro-abortion.....

Pro choice doesn't necessarily mean that they support abortions, only that they believe that a)abortion is not killing and b) the women's right to choose overrides the potentiality of human life.

Not many people are pro abortion.

If you think pro-abortion is the same as pro-choice, you are less intelligent than i thought.

Ne ways u guys know my stance.

I already said that I am more towards pro-choice. I only find Abortion justified if the woman was raped Or if the fetus threatens here life, THUS:

I believe that a woman has a right to choose to have an abortion in some instances, but not in others for the following reasons...

As you suggested I pick one. Anyways ALL my arguments support the ABOVE^ selection, so HOW the hell was i debating like a complete idiot ?😬

Originally posted by crazylozer
Pro choice doesn't necessarily mean that they support abortions, only that they believe that a)abortion is not killing and b) the women's right to choose overrides the potentiality of human life.

Not many people are pro abortion.

If a "pro-choice" individual beleives that abortions are not killing and that it is the woman's choice, then HOW are they NOT pro-abortion ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Ne ways u guys know my stance.

I already said that I am more towards pro-choice. I only find Abortion justified if the woman was raped Or if the fetus threatens here life, THUS:

[B]I believe that a woman has a right to choose to have an abortion in some instances, but not in others for the following reasons...

As you suggested I pick one. Anyways ALL my arguments support the ABOVE^ selection, so HOW the hell was i debating like a complete idiot ?😬 [/B]

Uh...yeah...

Look, you said you were pro choice. That's fine.

You said that you do not support abortions and stated reasons why. That's fine.

BUT, you then went on for pages and pages as to how abortions were awful, and were murders, and on and on and on. That simply is redundant and pointless when you say that women should be allowed to choose whether they have abortions or not.

You generalized when you said that abortions are only used for convenience. Then you go on to state cases where it is perfectly legitimate for abortions to take place. Again, redundant.

Finally, you go on to say that abortion = murder. Saying that means that you believe that abortion doctors are murderers and women who have them are accessories to murder. Following that, I can presume that you believe that a women's choice allows her to go around killing people. Bad logic. Period. The end. Yup.

EDIT:

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If a "pro-choice" individual beleives that abortions are not killing and that it is the woman's choice, then HOW are they NOT pro-abortion ?

This can occur when a person believes that abortion should not be the default choice, and that the woman and possibly the man should make a carefully considered choice as to whether or not they should have one. They may not support abortions themselves, but they won't stop others from having them.

BUT, you then went on for pages and pages as to how abortions were awful, and were murders, and on and on and on. That simply is redundant and pointless when you say that women should be allowed to choose whether they have abortions or not.

Nope. Ask AC, i took back my argument LONG AGO that Abortion is murder.

I do think that women should have the choice. They should be exposed to ALL options. Whether or not they make the right or wrong choice is up to them.

You generalized when you said that abortions are only used for convenience. Then you go on to state cases where it is perfectly legitimate for abortions to take place. Again, redundant.

Nope....i never said abortions are only for conveinence. I stated that in the case where the fetus does not threaten the life of the child, or in the case that the woman was raped, then an abortion is done for OTHER reasons than personal convienence, and therefore justifiable in my eyes.

Any other case, Is in my opinion, killing for convienence.
I said this LONG AGO......

Finally, you go on to say that abortion = murder.

Ummm..this is the SECOND time you brought up this point in the same post..and im stupid right ? 🙄 I already DROPPED that specific argument long ago. Ask AC again.

Saying that means that you believe that abortion doctors are murderers and women who have them are accessories to murder.

AGAIN...i never said such a thing about doctors and women, and i dropped the abortion=murder argument a loo0o0ong time ago.

Following that, I can presume that you believe that a women's choice allows her to go around killing people.

Nope. Just her child.

Bad logic. Period. The end. Yup.

Umm....No dude.....you read to fast. READ more of what i say before you go making incorrect judgements about my stance and opinion.

OKAY? 😉

Originally posted by crazylozer
This can occur when a person believes that abortion should not be the default choice, and that the woman and possibly the man should make a carefully considered choice as to whether or not they should have one. They may not support abortions themselves, but they won't stop others from having them.

Then I am most likely somewhere between Pro-Life and Pro-Choice, although I am closer to Pro-Choice. 🙂

You asked why you were thought to be a complete idiot. I answered. You have changed since then.

Originally posted by crazylozer
You asked why you were thought to be a complete idiot. I answered. You have changed since then.

Umm..thanks I guess.

I'd appreciate if you'd try countering my new arguments though.

Thanks 😉

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because it's a debate and facts a pivotal. Don't like that? Get out.

Fact overrides opinion.

That's a medical term. Murder is only legal, nothing else.

If you ignore a fact you're stupid and that's what you're doing.

-AC

I don't think I am stupid for ignoring an opinion I don't happen to agree with. You mean to say you agree with everything the law says? You are not a lawyer so shut it with the so called facts. I don't care about facts, got that? I know what the law says about abortion, but I don't agree. I have the freedom to decide my own opinion on the subject, and if we were not abe to argue that abortion was murder, this thread would never get anywhere. If no one argued abortion was murder, no one could be pro life, could they? Idiot.

Originally posted by PrincessMary
I don't care about facts, got that?

That's the problem.

And you're right, if abortion isnt murder, pro-life doesn't have an argument. Kind of shows just how much pro-lifers base their opinion on. Not very much. While pro-choicers have dozens of reasons to allow abortion

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Umm..thanks I guess.

I'd appreciate if you'd try countering my new arguments though.

Thanks 😉

Those arguments are neither new nor yours. When you refuse to actually acknowledge the validity of other peoples' arguments and refuse to go through the trouble of even browsing through older pages, I fail to see the point of debating with you. Please return after reading more. Thank you.

Originally posted by crazylozer
Those arguments are neither new nor yours. When you refuse to actually acknowledge the validity of other peoples' arguments and refuse to go through the trouble of even browsing through older pages, I fail to see the point of debating with you. Please return after reading more. Thank you.

This is probably one of the more hypocritical answers Ive gotten so far.

I DO acknowledge valid points, which is why i dropped the "abortion equals murder" argument.

Browsing through older pages? I have done so many a time, but to read ALL 300 pages? $#@$ that !

You obviously have not read much of my argument, because then you would have ALREADY known my stance, and your previous arguments PROVE that you only read a mere FRACTION of my debate.

I've read enough, and i am still unconvinced that i am wrong in anyway at THIS point. Sorry

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I believe that a woman has a right to choose to have an abortion in some instances, but not in others for the following reasons...

As you suggested I pick one. Anyways ALL my arguments support the ABOVE^ selection, so HOW the hell was i debating like a complete idiot ?😬

You cannot be this stupid.

Your set of premises, i.e. the reasons you believe abortion to be wrong, do not support your conclusion, i.e. that a woman has the right to choose to have an abortion in some instances.

To the contrary, your set of premises, i.e. the reasons you believe abortion to be wrong, support the conclusion that a woman does not have a right to choose to have an abortion ever.

For your argument to be valid, you need to change your premises or change your conclusion.

Or better yet, stop spamming this thread with your innane stupidity.