Originally posted by PrincessMary
I want to know what the **** is the problem with someone saying that their opinion is that abortion is murder? Why can't you say 'That's your opinion', and move on, instead of bringing up facts and law and whatnot?
Because it's a debate and facts a pivotal. Don't like that? Get out.
Fact overrides opinion.
Originally posted by PrincessMary
So the law says abortion isn't murder because it is legal. So? Is the law FORCING me to believe what it believes? No. Do I have the right to my own beliefs about abortion? YES I do.Anti smoking campaigners say that smoking causes lung cancer. You know it does, and I know it does. The law doesn't say that smoking causes lund cancer, so therefore, the fact that smoking can and does cause lung cancer isn't actually a fact at all, is it? So we must assume that smoking does NOt cause cancer, because if it did, the law would have stated that.
That's a medical term. Murder is only legal, nothing else.
If you ignore a fact you're stupid and that's what you're doing.
-AC
AC....you keep stating that Abortion and Murder are two different things etc.
I GET it already, and people understand that the LEGAL FACTS say that murder and abortion are seperate actions.
But some people STILL going to call it murder, because they will not be looking at it through a LEGAL perspective.
The word "Murder" has been used out of context for decades, so get used to it. People have come up with thier own intepretation of what murder is, since the word is used so often to describe every kind of killing that people find unjustifiable.
What I want to know is WHY you feel Abortion is totally fine.
I still don't understand why.....you disregard the Fetus as its own life, but that is a false argument.
Just because it does not have its own identity does not mean it is not its own life.
You treat it like a bodypart that belongs to the woman, like an appendix or something, that she ahs EVERY right to dispose of.
The FETUS IS HUMAN....a full human being? Not yet...but HUMAN nonetheless...it is NOT a chicken, bird, mouse, etc. ITS HUMAN.....
Abortion is the killing of an underdeveloped human fetus, it is an unnecessary killing when it doesn't threaten the life of its mother.
It's killing for convienence, and you say that's okay...
Why ?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
AC....you keep stating that Abortion and Murder are two different things etc.I GET it already, and people understand that the LEGAL FACTS say that murder and abortion are seperate actions.
But some people STILL going to call it murder, because they will not be looking at it through a LEGAL perspective.
The word "Murder" has been used out of context for decades, so get used to it. People have come up with thier own intepretation of what murder is, since the word is used so often to describe every kind of killing that people find unjustifiable.
No, you DON'T get it. I know you don't get it because each time you speak, you prove that you don't.
There is NO perspective besides the legal one, not factually, not correctly. Do you not understand that? Anyone calling it murder is factually incorrect. There are no two ways about this. It doesn't matter what you think about it, legally it's not murder and legally is the only way murder exists as a crime, in law. Get used to it? Get used to what? I do not have to accept or respect people who want to sit here denying fact. They need to accept that this is what they are doing. You rant about people's right to say what they want, but you don't have the right to deny a fact. That's ignorant and pathetic.
People use murder to describe unjustifiable killing, I know this. What I'm telling you, and proving to you each and everytime, is that they're wrong. Do I need to explain this any more, or are you getting it yet?
I'd hate to go over this again, so please read that carefully. I've done this over 20 times or more now, easily.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
What I want to know is WHY you feel Abortion is totally fine.I still don't understand why.....you disregard the Fetus as its own life, but that is a false argument.
Just because it does not have its own identity does not mean it is not its own life.
You treat it like a bodypart that belongs to the woman, like an appendix or something, that she ahs EVERY right to dispose of.
The FETUS IS HUMAN....a full human being? Not yet...but HUMAN nonetheless...it is NOT a chicken, bird, mouse, etc. ITS HUMAN.....
Abortion is the killing of an underdeveloped human fetus, it is an unnecessary killing when it doesn't threaten the life of its mother.
It's killing for convienence, and you say that's okay...
Why ?
Because it belongs to the woman, it's growing in her body, she had a part in creating it, a whole part in housing and sustaining it.
Entirely up to her what she wants to do with it. It's that simple to me. I'm not so selfish as to let morality enter into it for me, it's nothing to do with me.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because it belongs to the woman, it's growing in her body, she had a part in creating it, a whole part in housing and sustaining it.Entirely up to her what she wants to do with it. It's that simple to me. I'm not so selfish as to let morality enter into it for me, it's nothing to do with me.
-AC
I agree that it is Ultamately the woman's choice. Why? Because I am not the one who has to endure child birth, nor am I the one who has to take care of the child once its born. Despite my opinion, I have no right to dictate the choice a woman makes, nor does anyone else.
This is true....
However my opinion of the immorality of abortion is still the same.
I think your opinion is ignorant of the fact that the FETUS is its own living thing, with every right at the chance at life. You minimize the fetus as nothing more than a body part of his or her mother, and to me that is a flawed way of looking at it...
Now...let me clarify my stance on this, because many a debator have called me a hypocrit, simply because my opinion is not that of a BLACK or WHITE nature. My opinion is a shade of grey, and there is nothing hypocritical about it.
The Fetus is a living creature, a mixed result of the egg AND sperm, only connected to its mother through placenta...the only part of the baby that belongs to HER....the rest of the Fetus' entirely belongs to itself. To deny this and kill the living thing is CRUEL.
So if I feel this way, WHY do i STILL think its HER CHOICE?
Because.....it's not MY Vagina at stake here. I'm not the one whose private region is going to rip open. I am not the one whose body will end up mutilated over this. For me or anyone else to FORCE the mother to ENDURE the Agony of Child Birth and to force her to have her body ripped from the lower region, simply because we think she should give birth to someone that SHE does NOT want to give birth to is ALSO CRUEL...if not crueler....
To me this is a LOSE/LOSE situation, because SOMEONE ends up harmed.
This entire issue SUCKS because there is no "winner"..and its NOT as simple as you guys suggest ON EITHER SIDE OF THE DEBATE.
You seem to be so selfishly obsessed with having self indulgent conversations in your posts, with yourself, that you miss the point.
I honestly don't care what anyone ultimately thinks of abortion, I debate because it's interesting on point, but what your morality causes you to believe, isn't the same for me.
I recognise what the foetus is, I also recognise what it isn't. I don't get bogged down with it being a "future" anything, it's just a foetus and right now the only reason it's alive and exists is because of the female. She can do as she wishes.
-AC
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
ACPoint is neither my morality Or yours is enough reason for force a woman to endure the PAIN of child birth.
However, whatever the case, Abortion is still killing for convienence, and there is no true excuse for killing something for these kind of selfish reasons.....no matter how you look at it.
Hmm, how about killing something that is going to die anyway, whether it's born or not?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
However, whatever the case, Abortion is still killing for convienence, and there is no true excuse for killing something for these kind of selfish reasons.....no matter how you look at it.
Do you feel this way when you put sanitizer on your hands? By doing this you're killing a large number of bacteria. Would you not consider that killing for convenience? I guess there's no true excuse for killing something for a selfish reason such as not wanting to become ill from deadly bacteria.
And since everyone is expressing it as a 'LIVING THING' why don't we throw all the microscopic organisms that live inside, and out, of our bodies into the mix. Aren't those things entitled to living as much as a fetus? Are they any more or any less living than a foetuse?
I'm anxious to see some answers...
How about we don't make this more off-topic and pointless than it already is? Goodie.
Foetuses, living things? Yes, of course. However, let's not start asking about different species and organisms, let's discuss human created foetuses, ok?
Created by a human, housed and sustained by a human, therefore it's up to her what she does with it. Killing for convenience is exactly what it is and if you think that's selfish, you're right. However, being selfish gets a bad rep, nor is it anyone's business.
-AC