Abortion

Who cares if he doesn't like RATM?

Lets get back on the topic of abortion.

True, didn't mean to change the subject...in fact, I tried to get it back on topic...but the RATM discussion continued on and I had to answer some questions...where did we leave off on abortion?

Originally posted by hunchy
People should use protection (birth control, etc) and if it is an accident, then they shouldn't kill the baby...however, in rape cases it is different.

I never really did understand this. if someone's against abortion because it's 'killing an innocent life', this should be the case all the time, shouldn't it? even in the case of rape? if it's 'allowed' in such a case, then why not also in the case of a mother not having the money to raise a child? not having the time, the sanity, the age, the physical capability? it's still 'killing an innocent life' and it's still done on the basis of your own personal ideas of when this is right and wrong.

because, Line, they say it's ok in the bible... errr...somewhere in the back

(adapted quote from a simpsons episode about wacking-day)

Yerss -- Simpsons quotes can be adapted for every situation ✅

Line -- I don't know, it doesn't make any sense to me, either.

that's why I love to use them 😄

Same here 😄

Originally posted by Line
I never really did understand this. if someone's against abortion because it's 'killing an innocent life', this should be the case all the time, shouldn't it? even in the case of rape? if it's 'allowed' in such a case, then why not also in the case of a mother not having the money to raise a child? not having the time, the sanity, the age, the physical capability? it's still 'killing an innocent life' and it's still done on the basis of your own personal ideas of when this is right and wrong.

Who the hell will have to explain the kid later on, that his father raped his mother??? Do you think it's easy to life with the fact that somewhere the evidence of your being raped runs around? If you say abortion is ok in such cases and why not in other cases? Abortion is abortion not matter what reason you give!!!

I'm pro-choice cause nobody should tell a woman what she has to do with her womb. Abortion is never an easy decision and I think these women know what the do and have good reasons to.
Somebody once said: If men could become pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament!
I think there is some truth in this statement.

erm...roscoe, if you would read the context that post was made, you would see that Line was talking to hunchy that if he says "no" but this is an exception" that he should go through all things that can be exceptions

Well, for one rape is different because it was not their choice to get knocked up...they were forced to...and then caused them to get pregnent...Whereas, if your doing it with someone and its your choice, you are taking the risk of getting pregnant...protection or not...it still can happen, so that's why I said it was different. I still can't really say for sure if I'm for it in that case...You think that everyone is one sided...there are no differences in some cases and there are...so don't try to label me as an extremist...As a side note:

I love the Simpsons!

And if anyone comments again on me being Christian and that it is weird for me to like it...For one, my old pastor watched the Simpsons...and two, even if it disses Christians or religious people...there are some mest up religous people out there...and it makes fun of everyone in general...Either way, I wouldn't care if it slammed Christians or Bush or anyone...I think its a funny show and tries to be equal on dissing both sides...And again, I am still not quite sure if I believe in Christianity...at times I am confused in life and don't know what I think...but I back it up when others don't tell the truth about it on forums...of people who have never picked up a Bible in their life.

Originally posted by hunchy
Dude, first off...I was joking about RATM...I just don't like it personally. But yes I do like Metallica and many bands that would surprise you. Such as Nirvana, Led Zepplin, Smashing Pumpkins, ACDC...etc...I have the most film-buff taste in movies you'd ever imagine...I love all genres, movies...I have seen many, many movies...almost all the AFI's top 100 movies...all but about 5...And almost every single Best Picture movie...as well as many other movies...and am a minor film critic of my own...and filmmaker. Like I have said, I am not sure sometimes what I believe, but I am trying to defend the Bible, for if its true, the points it tries to bring out. Sorry, Darth Raven about what I said referring to you and drugs...I shouldn't have assumed that...When I said drugs, however I meant...marijuana, cocaine, heroine...etc...Which, yes, I CAN be against...I think Metallica has some great lyrics...

"Turn on the radio, nah, **** it, turn it off
Fear is ya only god, on the radio, nah, **** it, turn it off..."

Those are "good" lyrics??? Kinda like "LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR" (Repeat 4 times over and over and over again".

I didn't mean to offend you or anything. You never offended me: religiously (I don't really care) or politcally (I don't really care)...They're my opinions...you can't really offend me because you disagree with me...unless you slam me for what I think.

"First of all: RATM is awesome.

Second: You like Metallica Hunchy?! I must say I wouldn't except that from such a hardcore Christian. Well I admire your open-mindedness. If thats a wor"

I only used those lyrics because coincidentally, I was listening to that song when I was typing that. And still, you cannot be "for" or "against" drugs themselves. I knew what you meant. You can be for or against legalizing drugs, or drug education, but you can't be "for" or "against" drugs in and of themselves. Like I said, "heroin" and "cocaine" are nouns. Saying you are in support or in oppisition of one of those is like saying you are "for shoes" or "for plastic bags".

Anyways... hunchy, if a woman wants an abortion, it is hardly ever her choice to be pregnant in the first place. Yes, it is usually her decision to be having sex, but on the other hand, you shouldn't punish somebody with the pain of giving birth to a child, and then having to give it away, for making a stupid error in judgement.

Another reason somebody might want to have an abortion is if the child is going to have some genetic disease that will prevent it from living a normal life. There are some really, really nasty disorders that make people's lives miserable every single day. If it can be prevented, it's just not fair to force a person, and that person's family, to live with that. Especially if the people are not really fit to be parents in the first place.

Dude, first off...yes I CAN say I am against drugs...such as heroine, marijuana, and cocaine...how CAN'T I? I AM against them...You can't compare it to saying that I'm against shoes...however if I thought shoes were bad then yes I could...I would compare it to thinking that Saddam is a bad guy...That's a better example...Don't try to tell me what I can think and can't think...What do you think D.A.R.E. is against? Drugs. Period.

To determine when life begins, let us consider when life ends. Clinical death is the complete and irreversible cessation of hearbeat and brain activity but it is not the end of the life cycle. Long after clinical death occurs, cells divide and hair and nails continue to grow. Eventhough cellular life is present, the person is clearly not living. This standard is also used to determine when life begins. For if life exists when cellular life is present, then the clinically dead would also be considered alive.

Regardless of the moment life begins, is the issue of whether or not it morally incumbent on a woman to accede to a forced pregnancy, an issue that I raised several pages ago that no one has addressed. For the sake of discussion, here is the original post:

Originally posted by Adam_PoE

I propose, then, that we grant that the fetus is a person from the moment of conception. How does the argument go from here? Something like this, I take it. Every person has a right to life. So the fetus has a right to life. No doubt the mother has a right to decide what shall happen in and to her body; everyone would grant that. But surely a person's right to life is stronger and more stringent than the mother's right to decide what happens in and to her body, and so outweighs it. So the fetus may not be killed; an abortion may not be performed.

It sounds plausible. But now let me ask you to imagine this. You wake up in the morning and find yourself back to back in bed with an unconscious violinist. A famous unconscious violinist. He has been found to have a fatal kidney ailment, and the Society of Music Lovers has canvassed all the available medical records and found that you alone have the right blood type to help. They have therefore kidnapped you, and last night the violinist's circulatory system was plugged into yours, so that your kidneys can be used to extract poisons from his blood as well as your own. The director of the hospital now tells you, "Look, we're sorry the Society of Music Lovers did this to you—we would never have permitted it if we had known. But still, they did it, and the violinist now is plugged into you. To unplug you would be to kill him. But never mind, it's only for nine months. By then he will have recovered from his ailment, and can safely be unplugged from you.

Is it morally incumbent on you to accede to this situation? No doubt it would be very nice of you if you did, a great kindness. But do you have to accede to it? What if it were not nine months, but nine years? Or longer still? What if the director of the hospital says, "Tough luck, I agree, but you've now got to stay in bed, with the violinist plugged into you, for the rest of your life. Because remember this. All persons have a right to life, and violinists are persons. Granted you have a right to decide what happens in and to your body, but a person's right to life outweighs your right to decide what happens in and to your body. So you cannot ever be unplugged from him." I imagine you would regard this as outrageous, which suggests that something really is wrong with that plausible-sounding argument I mentioned a moment ago.

Well even if you make abortion illegal, if the woman is desperate enough it's gonna happen. Unfortunately, you don't need an abortion clinic. All you need is a coat hanger.

Okay...How brutal can you get? Do people also fail to mention that abortions can kill the chick too? So your risking your life, by trying to destroy another which you don't want...real irony there...

I have an idea, they should have the women looking to abort the child prepare the equipment, load the poison, clean the instruments, and ready the container for thier dead child to be dumped in, to truely have a feel for what they are about to do. So it would really be burned into thier mind of the decision they are making. Am I wrong? It would only be fair, considering the life or organism, SOME people believe it is, they are destroying. All because i don't really thnk that they know what they are doing.

There's the problem. YOU "think". Just because you think it, doesn't make it correct, does it? Ever actually spoken with someone who has had an abortion? You think that it's the easiest choice in the world? You are ignorant if you think so.

no i know it is a hard choice and many feel horrible afterwards, but really i have the sickos in mind that really don't give a damn, and just go and do someone again later that week. I think if you had a valid reason, both at heart, and logically, you should have no trouble doing such an act.

Yes, and a lot feel horrible afterwards and would never do it again now that they know what its like...but everyone reacts differently I guess.

I think abortion is wrong in any case, even in a rape case. I do not see how it would be the fault of an innocent baby to kill. Rape would be a horrible thing to go thru, but the baby could bring Good out of something that was so ugly.