Abortion

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not my goal to end it worldwide, but in this thread there are various people ignoring fact.

Princess Mary is getting pathetically hung up on the idea of "Well it's my belief!" So? Irrelevant. What is relevant is factual and undeniable info. That means that anyone believing abortion is equal to murder, is ignoring a fact. That means you are being stupid.

Mary, if you don't care about facts, get out. Plain and simple. If you're going to be stupid enough to keep pushing "Abortion is murder!" then I'll keep slamming you down with the fact that you are wrong. Like it or leave it.

It's that simple. Abortion is not murder and if you believe otherwise you are wrong. It doesn't matter what your opinion is, you are wrong. Why do I have to still educate you all on this?

-AC

Fair enough, but obviously she isn't going to bugde on that matter, so why not just overlook it and debate her other points?

Morality is independent of facts. An individual's feelings about the morality or immorality of a matter are usually involuntary and based more on emotion than logic.

And morality is simply a mix of our emotion and logic trying to determine what is right or wrong.

However, if one can use facts to back up one's opinion, it really does help to strengthen one's argument.

Nevertheless. you can't prove that abortion is morally right. Just like I and Princess Mary cannot prove that abortion is morally wrong, all we can do is throw our opinions on the table.

There are no facts that can prove or disprove the morality of the matter, because everyone's sense of morality is unique and subjective.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
So you ignore facts because your opinion is different? That sounds like a great idea!

My opinion now is that nothing dies. I'm going to ignore faccts too. Now that nothing dies, can I run you through a meat grinder?

Of course not. You'd still die. You're an idiot.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Fair enough, but obviously she isn't going to bugde on that matter, so why not just overlook it and debate her other points?

Because her opinion on the matter is based off "Abortion is murder" it would seem, so she's running out of the blocks backward from the start.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Morality is independent of facts. An individual's feelings about the morality or immorality of a matter are usually involuntary and based more on emotion than logic.

So stop being emotional on an internet forum and start thinking. It's not hard, you know. Abortion isn't murder, put aside your (not you) selfish ideas and accept that fact. If you continually choose to believe something that is wrong (and it doesn't matter if you think it's not wrong, it is), then that is stupidity.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
And morality is simply a mix of our emotion and logic trying to determine what is right or wrong.

Abortion not being murder has nothing to do with morals.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
However, if one can use facts to back up one's opinion, it really does help to strengthen one's argument.

Yes, so therefore we don't need to go on.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Nevertheless. you can't prove that abortion is morally right. Just like I and Princess Mary cannot prove that abortion is morally wrong, all we can do is throw our opinions on the table.

I never said I could, I said I could prove abortion isn't murder, and I have, many times in this thread. She's being ignorant, she said herself that she doesn't care about facts. How much more desperate and ignorant can you get?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
There are no facts that can prove or disprove the morality of the matter, because everyone's sense of morality is unique and subjective.

Never said there was. I was specifically telling her she was wrong about calling it murder, but then again she admittedly discards fact.

-AC

Originally posted by PVS
i guess so. maybe i shouldnt have said that. oh wait, thats right. i didn't.
i didnt suspect that you were putting words in my mouth, but the 3 year old grammar clued me in, and here we are.
now, junior, read my post again for what it says. read slowly this time so you can understand it:

if all you can do is put words in my mouth and run with your own imaginary argument, maybe you should just be silent, take a 'time out', and let the grownups debate the topic.

kthxbye

Sorry, junior, but approving killing children only because Mr. PVS says that they "didn't lived yet" is not better than killing old people because they lived long enough. All your posts still based on your opinion of who deserves to leave and who are not. You now act like a selfish idiot. You have to realise that on their place might be you and you would if your parents didn't want you so you are not the one to judge if children should have a chance to achive something or to kill them before they are born.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
I've given lke 50 in the course of a 300+ page argument. If the baby is unwanted, there are going to be more mothers just dumping their baby in a garbage can and going home. The baby is dead at that point anyway, she should have had the abortion.

I can't believe you couldn't think of that on your own.

Yeah, and you keep ignoring my posts...
page #344, will ya?

Originally posted by Sam Z
Sorry, junior, but approving killing children only because Mr. PVS says that they "didn't lived yet" is not better than killing old people because they lived long enough.

👆 ✅

Oh, and SamZ, that's a tyte Kazuya sig you got!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So stop being emotional on an internet forum and start thinking. It's not hard, you know. Abortion isn't murder, put aside your (not you) selfish ideas and accept that fact. If you continually choose to believe something that is wrong (and it doesn't matter if you think it's not wrong, it is), then that is stupidity.-AC

Abortion and Murder are definately separate terms and situations in the eyes of the Law.

However, has the word "murder" ever been used before the United States came into being? Under Hitler's takeover of Germany, his extermination of the Jews and millions of other people was not "murder" in his eyes. It was simply "ethnic cleansing" by his law.

However, to we who look back..it is murder.

How can you say that she has no right to consider Abortion murder, if one could consider everything that Hitler did murder ? You don't think people in the concentration camps felt Hitler was committing murder? Were they wrong to think so, even though Hitl'er's law said it was not murder?

I don't think Murder is as simple as a legal term. The Law is not absolute, it is a human concept and is flawed.

I heard your statement on murder a million times so please don't repeat it. You know i already dropped my argument on calling it murder, but I feel Princess Mary or anyone else has lee way to do so, considering the above points i have made.

To put one's emotion aside in terms of determining the morality of a situation is also a flawed action. Both emotion and logic come into play in this kind of debate.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I heard your statement on murder a million times so please don't repeat it.

👆

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

Abortion and Murder are definately separate terms and situations in the eyes of the Law.

And their is exclusion of morality from law. Morality was develepd to control humans.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

However, has the word "murder" ever been used before the United States came into being? Under Hitler's takeover of Germany, his extermination of the Jews and millions of other people was not "murder" in his eyes. It was simply "ethnic cleansing" by his law.

However, to we who look back..it is murder.

"We" meaning "you." Many others would not think aboot it as murder. Only those who believe in their being some form of morality think of it as murder. Your morality does make teh action a murdering one.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Sorry, junior, but approving killing children only because Mr. PVS says that they "didn't lived yet" is not better than killing old people because they lived long enough. All your posts still based on your opinion of who deserves to leave and who are not. You now act like a selfish idiot. You have to realise that on their place might be you and you would if your parents didn't want you so you are not the one to judge if children should have a chance to achive something or to kill them before they are born.

How on Earth are you going to call anyone else an idiot, when you're resorting to the age old, and equally laughable, "You're parents might not have had you."

Yes? So what? I wouldn't have known, at all.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Abortion and Murder are definately separate terms and situations in the eyes of the Law.

Which, in this case, is all that matters.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
However, has the word "murder" ever been used before the United States came into being? Under Hitler's takeover of Germany, his extermination of the Jews and millions of other people was not "murder" in his eyes. It was simply "ethnic cleansing" by his law.

He wasn't charged for murder either, to the best of my knowledge. Also, stop using that pointless "People use it in other ways" argument. People use it in other ways, these ways are wrong. Murder is only a legal term, people just overly abuse it.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
How can you say that she has no right to consider Abortion murder, if one could consider everything that Hitler did murder ? You don't think people in the concentration camps felt Hitler was committing murder? Were they wrong to think so, even though Hitl'er's law said it was not murder?

Because abortion is what we are discussing isn't it? Yes. We're not discussing mass genocide of living human beings. We're discussing the killing of a foetus to stop it becoming a living, active human. Murder is a legal term and a legal term only, this is the nth time I've said it now. She is stupid for thinking abortion is murder, why? Because it's not.

What Hitler did...and abortion...are two totally different things.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I don't think Murder is as simple as a legal term. The Law is not absolute, it is a human concept and is flawed.

Well that's tough. It's only a legal term, fact. Why? Because KILLING is too broad. Humans invented definitions for different kinds of killing so that people may be charged according to the seriousness of the killing act. Still with me? Murder has a specific definition and it is only legal, it's also not applicable to abortion.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I heard your statement on murder a million times so please don't repeat it.

Then stop repeating "Abortion is murder", to whoever it may concern. It's not, the facts are on my side and all you are doing is ignorantly ignoring it because you don't wish to admit you are wrong.

A million times and you still don't get that you are ignoring a fact (I say you, in general).

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You know i already dropped my argument on calling it murder, but I feel Princess Mary or anyone else has lee way to do so, considering the above points i have made.

They LITERALLY do have the right to say it, yes. They are wrong and as a result of debating from a factually incorrect stance, they slow down and hinder this debate.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
To put one's emotion aside in terms of determining the morality of a situation is also a flawed action. Both emotion and logic come into play in this kind of debate.

Yes, they come into play, but when emotion overrides what is the essential part- logic- that's when you have people like PrincessMary saying "I don't care about facts."

How many times will I have to lay it out in simple text before people accept the fact? Debating with an incorrect view is stupid.

-AC

Originally posted by PVS

i guess so. maybe i shouldnt have said that. oh wait, thats right. i didn't.
i didnt suspect that you were putting words in my mouth, but the 3 year old grammar clued me in, and here we are.
now, junior, read my post again for what it says. read slowly this time so you can understand it:

if all you can do is put words in my mouth and run with your own imaginary argument, maybe you should just be silent, take a 'time out', and let the grownups debate the topic.

kthxbye

Agree on both points. The maturity and educational level of some users on this forum leads me to believe that many just recently graduated from elementary school.

Originally posted by Sam Z

Yeah, and you keep ignoring my posts...

It's difficult to pay attention to someone whose posts are so irrational and grammatically erroneous. I look forward to your eventual banning.

Originally posted by nutswinger

It's difficult to pay attention to someone whose posts are so irrational and grammatically erroneous. I look forward to your eventual banning.

It's hard to pay attention when you have nothing to say.
I look forward to you not qoute posts that are not addressed to you untill you could come up with soemthing better than just pointing me at my grammar mistakes.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How on Earth are you going to call anyone else an idiot, when you're resorting to the age old, and equally laughable, "You're parents might not have had you."

Yes? So what? I wouldn't have known, at all.

You wouldn't know so that would be just ok?

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
👆 ✅

Oh, and SamZ, that's a tyte Kazuya sig you got!

Thanks man 😎
Made by Jugg666

Originally posted by Sam Z
You wouldn't know so that would be just ok?

I wouldn't be alive, conscious, feeling or aware. They would be doing it for their benefit, whatever that may mean. So yes, that's about the jist of it. What part are you having problems with?

-AC

I didn't ignore it, I didn't see it.

Originally posted by Sam Z
You do NOT want to help anybody. You pretend you are fighting for something good but reality is that you suggest to kill children to save children. So if they already "struggling" then they deserve tio live and if they are going to be born in a few month then no.
You can't see your own position here. You say you wanna help children but say that not yet born children do not deserve to have life like you and you are better than them ONLY because you "help society" but they don't. And that means anyone who is not helping society deserves death. That is YOUR logic don't pretend you forgot about your own words.
And that you just taking care of people's future is a bullcrap too.
World will not be overpopulated if we will allow all children be born, you know why? Because in many countries in the world people die more often that other get born. This is all balanced. So your "dumpster" point makes no sense too. I can give you dozens examples of orphans who were raised without parents or adopters and stll they lived successfull lifes. Ofcourse it is not 100% they will be successful but atleas they would HAVE a chanse.

Pretend? Do you watch me everyday? Do you even know me? No. No you don't. So don't pretend that you do.

Helping people that are alive and struggling equals a greater benefit than forcing a child into this world that noone is going to care for. When you face that fact, come back and play.

Wanna know a neat world fact? Every 3 seconds a child is born. Every 8 seconds a person dies. More births will not change the rate of death. That means it could skyrocket to 5 or 6 births every 3 seconds (or 2.5-3 births per second) to only one death per 8 seconds. Do the math and you'll see that overpopulation will come quicker than you think.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Sorry, junior, but approving killing children only because Mr. PVS says that they "didn't lived yet" is not better than killing old people because they lived long enough.

did i ever mention anything about killing old people? or are you just being typical and constructing an imaginary argument? i only stated my opinion, which is just that. but you know this, dont you?

Originally posted by Sam Z
All your posts still based on your opinion of who deserves to leave and who are not.

no, my opinion, which has always been clearly stated as opinion,
is that life does not begin until the offspring is capable of being born and surviving. i guess you can just ignore that and cry about it, like you have been doing so far....

Originally posted by Sam Z
You now act like a selfish idiot. You have to realise that on their place might be you and you would if your parents didn't want you so you are not the one to judge if children should have a chance to achive something or to kill them before they are born.

there you go again. if my parents aborted me i would be nonexistant. there would never have been a "me" but rather a discarded extention of my mother's womb. that, once again is my opinion, so feel free to scream, cry and pound your fists on the ground over it.

Horray for forcing women to do things against their will!!

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
I didn't ignore it, I didn't see it.

This happens too often, don't you think?

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Pretend? Do you watch me everyday? Do you even know me? No. No you don't. So don't pretend that you do.[/B]

Thankfully I don't know you but your posts speak for yourself. You suggest to kill someone who do not help society as "you do".

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Helping people that are alive and struggling equals a greater benefit than forcing a child into this world that noone is going to care for. When you face that fact, come back and play.[/B]

Forcing?? And what makes you think it wouldn't want to live in this world? Again there are a lot of examples when even orphans live much more successful and better lifes than children with parents. Again, everyone must have a chance and you are NOT the one to take it from them. And what about "come back and play", sorry dude but you are losing the "game" for now.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Wanna know a neat world fact? Every 3 seconds a child is born. Every 8 seconds a person dies. More births will not change the rate of death. That means it could skyrocket to 5 or 6 births every 3 seconds (or 2.5-3 births per second) to only one death per 8 seconds. Do the math and you'll see that overpopulation will come quicker than you think. [/B]

Do you want to hear fact? In Hungary, Germany, Estonia, Moldavia, Bulgaria, Roumania, Russia, Czechoslovavakia and many other countries people die much more often than children get born. And this is only beggining. Every year amount of born children there become less and amount of deathes grow. There are too MANY factors for this. Disasters, wars, ecology, deseases etc. So overpopulation is NOT an excuse for taking chances from children to live.

Originally posted by PVS
did i ever mention anything about killing old people? or are you just being typical and constructing an imaginary argument? i only stated my opinion, which is just that. but you know this, dont you?

I never said you mentioned it, I only said "this is not better than".
Read posts you quote, would you?

Originally posted by PVS
no, my opinion, which has always been clearly stated as opinion,
is that life does not begin until the offspring is capable of being born and surviving. i guess you can just ignore that and cry about it, like you have been doing so far....[/B]

Your opinion is not even related to the topic of our discussion. You say offsprings did not lived yet. Ok, so? It would be fine not to let ANY offspring to be born since it didn't lived?

Originally posted by PVS
there you go again. if my parents aborted me i would be nonexistant. there would never have been a "me" but rather a discarded extention of my mother's womb. [/B]

As you see I'm totally ageinst abortions but your parents should've done that since EVEN their own son believe this would be alright.

Originally posted by PVS
that, once again is my opinion, so feel free to scream, cry and pound your fists on the ground over it. [/B]

LOL grow up.