Originally posted by Sam Z
This happens too often, don't you think?
As a fast moving thread that's nearly 350 pages, I just don't care how often it happens. If I miss it, mention it and I'll obviously respond, as I've just shown.
Thankfully I don't know you but your posts speak for yourself. You suggest to kill someone who do not help society as "you do".
You're an idiot. Small children can't help people as I do, and yet I never said anything about killing them. In fact, I said help them. You're awesome at putting words in people's mouths. 👇
I'm suggesting that the woman have A CHOICE. A choice to prevent the birth of a child she may not be able to support physically, emotionally, or financially, for any reason. You're proving your ignorance of my point....again.
Forcing?? And what makes you think it wouldn't want to live in this world? Again there are a lot of examples when even orphans live much more successful and better lifes than children with parents. Again, everyone must have a chance and you are NOT the one to take it from them. And what about "come back and play", sorry dude but you are losing the "game" for now.
Yea, forcing. Because if they're dead they can't want to live in this world. Hell, babies barely know how to use their eyes when they are born, much less think self-conciously. They can't do anything.
How about not using adoption as an excuse? What happened to every child deserving a loving mother and a father? "Alot of examples" are not anywhere near "all" or even "most", it's a much more difficult life. If the mother doesn't want the child, isn't resposible enough to care for it, or cannot provide for it financially, she shouldn't be having the child. Period.
Do you want to hear fact? In Hungary, Germany, Estonia, Moldavia, Bulgaria, Roumania, Russia, Czechoslovavakia and many other countries people die much more often than children get born. And this is only beggining. Every year amount of born children there become less and amount of deathes grow. There are too MANY factors for this. Disasters, wars, ecology, deseases etc. So overpopulation is NOT an excuse for taking chances from children to live.
The facts of individual countries don't matter. I'm talking world population. Don't try to push aside my point, which is completely valid.
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
You're an idiot. Small children can't help people as I do, and yet I never said anything about killing them. In fact, I said help them. You're awesome at putting words in people's mouths. 👇
[/B]
Excuses again, i did not put words in your mouth, you said that.
I asked what makes you better than them that you deserve to live but they don't. You said because you "help society"👆 way to go.
Calling me an idiot only proves that you are running out of arguments.
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
I'm suggesting that the woman have A CHOICE. A choice to prevent the birth of a child she may not be able to support physically, emotionally, or financially, for any reason. You're proving your ignorance of my point....again.
Unlike you I never ignored your posts so don't bring this sh!t up, will you?
So women would have a choice but children wont?
The most often reason of abortion is that people were not carefull while having sex. So givving chance to mother only because she wasn't carefull is more fair than givving chance to children to live??
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
Yea, forcing. Because if they're dead they can't want to live in this world. Hell, babies barely know how to use their eyes when they are born, much less think self-conciously. They can't do anything.
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
How about not using adoption as an excuse? What happened to every child deserving a loving mother and a father? "Alot of examples" are not anywhere near "all" or even "most", it's a much more difficult life. If the mother doesn't want the child, isn't resposible enough to care for it, or cannot provide for it financially, she shouldn't be having the child. Period.
Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
The facts of individual countries don't matter. I'm talking world population. Don't try to push aside my point, which is completely valid. [/B]
Originally posted by Sam Z
🙄 None. Since you now approve even your own abortion.
Yeah, because I realise that I wouldn't know about it, feel it or be aware of it. My parents would have their reasons, any reason is good enough for me. I'm not selfish.
Originally posted by Sam Z
So givving chance to mother only because she wasn't carefull is more fair than givving chance to children to live??
They're not children, they're zygotes or foetuses, and no it's not the same.
Originally posted by Sam Z
How about not desiding for the children if they will live ot not? Difficult or not, they have the right to try.
Are you saying that we have no right in deciding whether a child lives or not? Foetuses, and as a result- children, wouldn't exist if parents didn't decide to conceive them. So your argument holds no water. We're the ones who decide to create them and even if we don't decide to specifically create a child, but one is created anyway, it's that individual person's right to do as they wish with it. It''s being kept alive by them, housed by them and was created by them.
It's not as if foetuses create themselves and you are stopping something that has to happen.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Again, amount of dieing people is far greater than amount of people that get born in MANY countries.
False. The amount of people alive today is greater than the amount of people who have ever died.
-AC
Originally posted by Sam Z
I never said you mentioned it, I only said "this is not better than".
Read posts you quote, would you?
then use proper grammar instead of typing like a 3 year old. its one thing to spell incorrectly, yet still be understandable, but your sentence structure is nonsensical:
Originally posted by Sam Z
Sorry, junior, but approving killing children only because Mr. PVS says that they "didn't lived yet" is not better than killing old people because they lived long enough.
wtf? can anyone PLEASE translate that?
Originally posted by Sam Z
Your opinion is not even related to the topic of our discussion. You say offsprings did not lived yet. Ok, so? It would be fine not to let ANY offspring to be born since it didn't lived?
it is entirely related to the topic of discussion. the definition of "life" is part of the very base in which this debate is rooted. so since my opinion on the matter goes against your's, you declare it off-topic. so i guess the topic is "agree with sam z on the abortion issue"?
Originally posted by Sam Z
As you see I'm totally ageinst abortions but your parents should've done that since EVEN their own son believe this would be alright.
is that the best you can do? "OMG YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABORTED!!!111"
you sure have alot to type in response to my posts, but all the time you really have nothing to say at all. just childish jabs and cries of "off topic because i dont agree"
Originally posted by Sam Z
LOL grow up.
i love the combination of "LOL" and "grow up", along with you calling me "junior", especially when i was entering high school while you were learning to not crap in your pants (assuming you managed to leap that hurdle). oh sweet irony.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, because I realise that I wouldn't know about it, feel it or be aware of it. My parents would have their reasons, any reason is good enough for me. I'm not selfish.
Yeah, and the reason usualy is "accident"
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
They're not children, they're zygotes or foetuses, and no it's not the same.[/B]
It isn't but it doesn't mean they are worse.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Are you saying that we have no right in deciding whether a child lives or not? Foetuses, and as a result- children, wouldn't exist if parents didn't decide to conceive them. So your argument holds no water. We're the ones who decide to create them and even if we don't decide to specifically create a child, but one is created anyway, it's that individual person's right to do as they wish with it. It''s being kept alive by them, housed by them and was created by them.[/B]
What I'm saying is that if you are going to have child then you must take responibility and if you don't want child then you must think of it before creating it so you wouldn't want to get rid of it.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not as if foetuses create themselves and you are stopping something that has to happen.
[/B]
Not a big difference.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
False. The amount of people alive today is greater than the amount of people who have ever died.-AC [/B]
Ever died??
The amount of people who born IS greater than amount of people who die. But it's pretty fast becoming the other way. And it's caused by wars and desasters.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Yeah, and the reason usualy is "accident"
So? What's your point? That people should rectify accidental occurances? If someone gets a huge gash in their leg, they should leave it? I mean, it'll heal naturally right?
Originally posted by Sam Z
It isn't but it doesn't mean they are worse.
No, but it means they aren't children. So stop treating them as such.
Originally posted by Sam Z
What I'm saying is that if you are going to have child then you must take responibility and if you don't want child then you must think of it before creating it so you wouldn't want to get rid of it.
Think before creating it huh? Do you know how many accidental pregnancies occur even WITH protection? "Hmm, wait, before we have sex, let's think about what happens if I get pregnant." "Ok." "..." "..." "You good to go now?" "Yeah".
What exactly would you have these people do? Not have sex for pleasure? If someone has sex for pleasure and they get pregnant despite trying to prevent it, they have every right to an abortion. If someone is using abortion as birth control, I don't agree with it, but it's still their choice.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Not a big difference.
Yes, there is a big difference. You are ending something that is essentially in existence because of you and, if allowed to become a child, could ruin your life. "You should have thought about that first." Maybe so, but that doesn't change the fact that it's up to them. Mother giveth, mother taketh away.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Ever died?? The amount of people who born IS greater than amount of people who die. But it's pretty fast becoming the other way. And it's caused by wars and desasters.
http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/popclockworld.html
There are currently well over 6,500,000,000 people alive today. So unless you believe that above 6,500,000,000 plus people have died, ever, then it's foolish to believe otherwise.
The current world population is ridiculously over-shot.
-AC
Originally posted by PVS
then use proper grammar instead of typing like a 3 year old. its one thing to spell incorrectly, yet still be understandable, but your sentence structure is nonsensical:wtf? can anyone PLEASE translate that?
Another proof how pathetic you are. Making grammar mistakes is typical for someone who learns foreign language. Great amount of members of this forum make mistakes even though they leave in english speaking countries. You really believe that pointing me at my grammar makes you look smarter? I almost see your next post "don't discuss if you can't write without mistakes" Man 👆
Originally posted by PVS
it is entirely related to the topic of discussion. the definition of "life" is part of the very base in which this debate is rooted. so since my opinion on the matter goes against your's, you declare it off-topic. so i guess the topic is "agree with sam z on the abortion issue"?[/B]
No, it is off-topic because you talk about "what true life is" insteade of abortions topic.
Originally posted by PVS
is that the best you can do? "OMG YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABORTED!!!111"
you sure have alot to type in response to my posts, but all the time you really have nothing to say at all. just childish jabs and cries of "off topic because i dont agree"
[/B]
The truth is that you don't say anything about abortions. The best you could do is pointing me at my grammar mistakes. And you dare to call my behaivour childish after that.
Originally posted by PVS
i love the combination of "LOL" and "grow up", along with you calling me "junior", especially when i was entering high school while you were learning to not crap in your pants (assuming you managed to leap that hurdle). oh sweet irony. [/B]
😱 Respect PVS! He is old...
I can't believe you actually managed to enter high school.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Another proof how pathetic you are. Making grammar mistakes is typical for someone who learns foreign language. Great amount of members of this forum make mistakes even though they leave in english speaking countries. You really believe that pointing me at my grammar makes you look smarter? I almost see your next post "don't discuss if you can't write without mistakes" Man 👆
anyone here can tell you that i am neither a spelling nazi nor a grammar nazi.
all i ask for is coherance, which unfortunately you did not give me. if you cant hack it, maybe you shouldnt be posting on an english speaking forum.
Originally posted by Sam Z
No, it is off-topic because you talk about "what true life is" insteade of abortions topic.
did you read what i typed? you dont get to determine the topic based on what points favor your opinion and which dont. the definition of "life" is the foundation for which the issue is debated. the pro-****LIFE**** people claim that life truly begins at the moment of conception, while most pro-choice people disagree.
but you dont like the opinion i stated on just that, so its off topic? baby
Originally posted by Sam Z
The truth is that you don't say anything about abortions. The best you could do is pointing me at my grammar mistakes. And you dare to call my behaivour childish after that.
no, you said that i basically can't understand english, so i pointed out your complete incoherance in response. quit trying to play the innocent and abused angel. its quite obnoxious and anyone here can see through it.
Originally posted by Sam Z
😱 Respect PVS! He is old...
I can't believe you actually managed to enter high school.
the point is that you calling me 'junior' is about as stupid and nonsensical as me calling you 'grandpa'. i guess its beyond your comprehension so i will just drop it... 😬
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So? What's your point? That people should rectify accidental occurances? If someone gets a huge gash in their leg, they should leave it? I mean, it'll heal naturally right?No, but it means they aren't children. So stop treating them as such.
Think before creating it huh? Do you know how many accidental pregnancies occur even WITH protection? "Hmm, wait, before we have sex, let's think about what happens if I get pregnant." "Ok." "..." "..." "You good to go now?" "Yeah".
What exactly would you have these people do? Not have sex for pleasure? If someone has sex for pleasure and they get pregnant despite trying to prevent it, they have every right to an abortion. If someone is using abortion as birth control, I don't agree with it, but it's still their choice.
Man, i don't know what kind of protection one must use to get his woman pragnant but there is always a way to have sex and not get pragnant. It may only happen if you use staff with bad quality.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, there is a big difference. You are ending something that is essentially in existence because of you and, if allowed to become a child, could ruin your life. "You should have thought about that first." Maybe so, but that doesn't change the fact that it's up to them. Mother giveth, mother taketh away.Don't you think it sounds selfish
[QUOTE=6637584]Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/popclockworld.html
There are currently well over 6,500,000,000 people alive today. So unless you believe that above 6,500,000,000 plus people have died, ever, then it's foolish to believe otherwise.
The current world population is ridiculously over-shot.
-AC [/B]
You must don't get me right. I'm not saying that NOW amount of people who die is bigger than amount of people who get born. I only say that this is fastly moving the other way. And in close future it would. Ecpesially if any lardge war would happen. Take atleas disasters in indonesia
Originally posted by Sam Z
😱 Respect PVS! He is old...
I can't believe you actually managed to enter high school.
And you should respect PVS. He knows more than you do obviously. Your whole argument on the matter, including your opinion, is "supportless." Abortion is not wrong, and neither is it right. It has been stated more than enough times that abortion is all due to an individuals point of view. My point of view is that it's totally illogical to say that it's either wrong or right because no one has any memories from when he or she was a foetuse, therefore you cannot relate to the feelings or understandings of a foetuse growing in a woman's body because you have no remembrance of it, therefore you cannot know that a foetuse has thoughts or feelings. I can't remember getting circumcised let alone remember floating in my mother's womb. In any case, the decisions are up to the woman carrying the foetuse to make. No one elses.
Originally posted by PVS
anyone here can tell you that i am neither a spelling nazi nor a grammar nazi.
all i ask for is coherance, which unfortunately you did not give me. if you cant hack it, maybe you shouldnt be posting on an english speaking forum.
Not really, all you do is laughing at my grammar to look smart. Your point there was quite clear since everyone else understand me and nobody except you need a "translation" To post here or not is only my problem, besides it is a good training for me.
Originally posted by PVS
did you read what i typed? you dont get to determine the topic based on what points favor your opinion and which dont. the definition of "life" is the foundation for which the issue is debated. the pro-****LIFE**** people claim that life truly begins at the moment of conception, while most pro-choice people disagree.but you dont like the opinion i stated on just that, so its off topic? baby[/B]
And where did you get that "I don't like the opinion" I simply disagree with it and ask you to get closer to the main topic. And that is - do you approve abortions? And why?
Originally posted by PVS
no, you said that i basically can't understand english, so i pointed out your complete incoherance in response. quit trying to play the innocent and abused angel. its quite obnoxious and anyone here can see through it.
[/B]
Originally posted by PVS
the point is that you calling me 'junior' is about as stupid and nonsensical as me calling you 'grandpa'. i guess its beyond your comprehension so i will just drop it... 😬 [/B]
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
And you should respect PVS. He knows more than you do obviously. Your whole argument on the matter, including your opinion, is "supportless." Abortion is not wrong, and neither is it right. It has been stated more than enough times that abortion is all due to an individuals point of view. My point of view is that it's totally illogical to say that it's either wrong or right because no one has any memories from when he or she was a foetuse, therefore you cannot relate to the feelings or understandings of a foetuse growing in a woman's body because you have no remembrance of it, therefore you cannot know that a foetuse has thoughts or feelings. I can't remember getting circumcised let alone remember floating in my mother's womb. In any case, the decisions are up to the woman carrying the foetuse to make. No one elses.
So foetus do not remember anything so that's why getting rid of them is not right or wrong. I don't remember myself at age of 1, so?
Well I think abortion is wrong because foetus are the same people as we are, but not grown yet.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Man, i don't know what kind of protection one must use to get his woman pragnant but there is always a way to have sex and not get pragnant. It may only happen if you use staff with bad quality.
Not at all. Shows what you know, doesn't it?
Originally posted by Sam Z
You must don't get me right. I'm not saying that NOW amount of people who die is bigger than amount of people who get born. I only say that this is fastly moving the other way. And in close future it would. Ecpesially if any lardge war would happen. Take atleas disasters in indonesia
You did say that, until I proved you wrong.
Rambling; A sign of defeat.
-AC
Originally posted by Sam Z
So foetus do not remember anything so that's why getting rid of them is not right or wrong. I don't remember myself at age of 1, so?
Well I think abortion is wrong because foetus are the same people as we are, but not grown yet.
Yes, getting rid of a foetuse is neither right or wrong because we cannot relate to it.
So what if you don't remember anything at age one?
My 'not right or wrong' opinion would still go on, even for a one year old. The difference here is that a one year old getting killed would be much more tragic than an abortioin because the one year old is much more human-like than a foetuse. So most people would consider a foetuse to be human because of its human-like development as it grows in the womb.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Not really, all you do is laughing at my grammar to look smart. Your point there was quite clear since everyone else understand me and nobody except you need a "translation" To post here or not is only my problem, besides it is a good training for me.
rundown of actual history as opposed to your history:
-you didnt form a coherent sentence
-i (apparently) took the wrong meaning
-you tell me for taking the wrong meaning.
-i pointed out that your sentence was incoherant
-you cried and accused me of insulting you
so quit wasting my time with all your frikin crying. i dont give a shit.
Originally posted by Sam Z
And where did you get that "I don't like the opinion" I simply disagree with it and ask you to get closer to the main topic. And that is - do you approve abortions? And why?
what a copout. ill say whatever the *** i want relating to the topic.
since it is related to the topic, you can stuff your back-seat moderating.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Please tell me when did I said "you can't understand english"?
I doubt I could say such thing since I know my english is many times worse than of any of you.
did i put those words in quotes? no i didnt. what you actually said was:
Originally posted by Sam Z
I never said you mentioned it, I only said "this is not better than".
Read posts you quote, would you?
anyway:
Originally posted by Sam Z
But you calling me "junior" is brilliant right?
i said i was dropping it. if you cant understand the meaning in my last post concerning this, then you have far greater educational hurdles to jump than the english language.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Excuses again, i did not put words in your mouth, you said that.
I asked what makes you better than them that you deserve to live but they don't. You said because you "help society"👆 way to go.
Calling me an idiot only proves that you are running out of arguments.
This going around in circles thing is fun. I did NOT say "kill all the small children because they can't help society" and if you can find where I said that I'll give you a cookie.
Unlike you I never ignored your posts so don't bring this sh!t up, will you?
So women would have a choice but children wont?
The most often reason of abortion is that people were not carefull while having sex. So givving chance to mother only because she wasn't carefull is more fair than givving chance to children to live??
"Ignorance" doesn't mean ignoring your post. So I was right to call you an idiot. Be sure to read the definition of a word you don't know.
So if someone is not careful that means they automatically have the ability to raise a child? Do you understand what kind of responsibility it takes to raise a child? If she wasn't responsible enough to have safe sex, do you think she DESERVES to have the child? No. And she shouldn't be forced to go through 20 hours of labor as punishment, I think knowing the fact that she just snuffed out a potential life would be punishment enough.
Yes it is more fair. The mother exists and is here now, the fetus thing isn't. The priority should be people that are here now. The baby never asked to be born or even conceived, so yes, it is forcing it to be born.
I don't see your point here. They are not dead. And killing them before they are born IS forcing them not to live. But giiving them chance to try is not forcing. You words make no sense.
English isn't your first language is it? If the fetus is aborted, it's dead. My words make perfect sense.
How about not desiding for the children if they will live ot not? Difficult or not, they have the right to try. And again, they WOULD have chance to succid like all other people, this is just fair, so don't pretend that you care about children when you say we must kill them so they wont suffer.
They aren't children, they're unborn fetuses. Children don't have the right to choose anything in society until they're 16-18 anyway, everything is decided for them. I don't get why this seems like a horrifying concept to you. I'm not pretending about anything. The problem with people is that they think too much of the goddamn future. **** the future. You're here, NOW. The future depends on what you do NOW. Don't ruin the woman's life NOW because you want the fetus to be born in the future.
You keep saying it should have a chance to succeed, but you're also giving it the possibility to grow up to be a murderer, child molester, rapist, theif, etc. The possibilities aren't all positive. Save a fetus from abortion now, and have the same guy rob and rape you 15 years later.
And I'm talking about world population too. Again, amount of dieing people is far greater than amount of people that get born in MANY countries. And it keeps growing. Overpopulation is the least threat to us in our days. Wars and disasters are taking "care" of that.
No, you aren't talking about world population. "many countries" is NOT the entire planet. The world population grows by one every 3 seconds. Lets do the math for you. +1 for every 3 seconds, and -1 for every 8 seconds. Lets multiply them so that they are equal values, 24 seconds. In 24 seconds 8 people will be born. Also in 24 seconds, 3 people will die. 8-3=5. FIVE new people every 24 seconds, including the death rate. Without the millions of abortions each year, the population would skyrocket, possibly to 8-10 people every 24 seconds.
That's not overpopulation?
Originally posted by PVS
rundown of actual history as opposed to your history:-you didnt form a coherent sentence
-i (apparently) took the wrong meaning
-you tell me for taking the wrong meaning.
-i pointed out that your sentence was incoherant
-you cried and accused me of insulting youso quit wasting my time with all your frikin crying. i dont give a shit.
You didn't took the wrong meaning.
-I made mistake
-You started pointing me at it because you thought it would make you look smarter. That is pathetic...
Originally posted by PVS
what a copout. ill say whatever the *** i want relating to the topic.
since it is related to the topic, you can stuff your back-seat moderating.[QUOTE=6637816]Originally posted by PVS
[B]
did i put those words in quotes? no i didnt. what you actually said was:anyway
Ok, read posts you comment, big differance.
Originally posted by PVS
i said i was dropping it. if you cant understand the meaning in my last post concerning this, then you have far greater educational hurdles to jump than the english language.
I don't have problems with education, I only have problems with guys that does not watch their tangues or see themselvs too much while debating.