Abortion

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Again, you are too devoid of perceptive abilities to grasp the point. What we are saying is that you should use "It will become a future..." etc in your argument, purely because the future is conceptual. All that truly exists is the time we live in, the present. So concentrate on what it IS, not what you think it might be, or selfishly hope it will be, to aid your argument.

Apparantly all you can say is "Sad and childish."

It's not irrelevant, you did it. Being able to get points is crucial to a debate.

Yes, [b]I'm clearly the sad and childish one out of the two of us...

Not too sure where I said that, either.

More valid than you replying to each and every part of the post to make it look like you have things to say.

You're the one making up quotes and avoiding any point I've made, so it's ironic once again.

-AC [/B]

'Concentrate on the now and not the future' is not an arguing point. If no one thought about the future guess what, there wouldn't be one. Your parents thought about the future and guess what they decided that in the future they'd like to have a child. Again, you think you sound deep and meaningful with lines like that but they're irrelevant to the discussion. What is relevant to abortion and the topic of this thread??? You guessed it, is abortion murder because an embryo and/or a fetus is sentient. And, as much as you like to say it isn't, there is proof that it is.

again, the frikin poll title 😖

i believe in abortion *prays to abortion*

Originally posted by Robtard
That is irrelevant to abortion. [B]

It was only a point I was making for another debater who simply asked what a woman should do if faced with the possibility of the fetus being born with any disabilities. If you had read more closely before you would know that its meaning is more relevant to the topic than you think.

Originally posted by Robtard
[B] but we're talking about the potential to kill a person.

Yea... the potential that after the fetus is born and matures into an adult that it becomes a murderer. More lives, in this case, would be lost than saved. I'm not saying that this is what will happen, but you can't guarantee that it won't happen.

Originally posted by Robtard
Also, fetus's do not 'walk the line between life and death' as you state, compare the number of births to the number of miscarriages annually and you'll see that. In fact, the first few weeks of a pregnancy an embryo is extremely resilient.

But there are still miscarriages. What is your point?

Originally posted by Robtard
There are many valid talking points for pro-choice, you choose to ignore those and go with 'Who cares.' attitude. Not a wise choice.

I agree. There are many valid points to pro-choice. I am pro-choice. And if people weren't so emotional about abortion I would be pro-abortion mainly because I see nothing wrong with abortion. It is only wrong because people label it such.

And BTW, choosing to judge others by their simple disagreements is not a wise choice either.

Originally posted by aclj
[QUOTE=6656835]Originally posted by Kritish
[B]The problem pro-lifers have with abortion is they think a fetus has rights. [/QUOTE

Doing a cheapshot isn't right, either [/B]

You're a man, who are you to decide if a woman shouldn't get an abortion?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Phoenix never said life is just a fantasy. She/He was referring to the point that people should stop living in the future when abortion is being discussed, and concentrate on what the foetus actually IS now, in this present day. Not what it would be if we left it, because that's stupid. A foetus has as much future as it's mother decides it will have, none if need be.

Once again, another point goes flying over your head.

-AC

It's FETUS not FOETUS... (See I can do it too, does it make a point? No it does not)

I have been argueing the 'now' and there's proof that the fetus (IN THE NOW AS YOU SAY) is a living person.

Once again, you resort to thinly viled insults...

Originally posted by Robtard
'Concentrate on the now and not the future' is not an arguing point. If no one thought about the future guess what, there wouldn't be one.

There isn't a future anyway is there? You just proved the point. There is only a future in how we IMAGINE it. It doesn't exist right now, it's not out there somewhere, happening. The only time we experience is the present.

Originally posted by Robtard
Your parents thought about the future and guess what they decided that in the future they'd like to have a child. Again, you think you sound deep and meaningful with lines like that but they're irrelevant to the discussion.

That's not relevant either. My parents decided they wanted me, ok, so what? What does that have to do with anything? It has no bearing on the present/future argument. They THOUGHT about the future, thinking about it doesn't make it an existing realm.

Surely you figured this out post-high school.

Originally posted by Robtard
What is relevant to abortion and the topic of this thread??? You guessed it, is abortion murder because an embryo and/or a fetus is sentient. And, as much as you like to say it isn't, there is proof that it is.

What a way to invalidate everything you say.

Abortion is factually, watch that word...factually not murder. There is 100% no debate you can say against it. Murder is a purely legal term and it has no application to abortion. The only reason people call it murder is because they define the term on their own, and guess what? That doesn't count. I could say "Apple means banana", it wouldn't though, because that's not what it is.

Once again you've proven that you can't get anything that isn't as subtle as a car wreck.

-AC

Originally posted by Kritish
You're a man, who are you to decide if a woman shouldn't get an abortion?

Well, if you happen to be the father of the child you have a say... Remember, sperm is needed to make a baby.

Originally posted by Robtard
It's FETUS not FOETUS... (See I can do it too, does it make a point? No it does not)

I have been argueing the 'now' and there's proof that the fetus (IN THE NOW AS YOU SAY) is a living person.

Once again, you resort to thinly viled insults...

Both are applicable, I suggest you do research.

The foetus isn't a living person though is it? It's something that, if born, would become one. It isn't one while it's in the womb, at the time of abortion.

Stop acting like a fool and I won't call you one.

-AC

Originally posted by Robtard
Well, if you happen to be the father of the child you have a say... Remember, sperm is needed to make a baby.

You're not the father of every baby, no man is. Either way, as much as a man should have a SAY in the matter, it's ultimately going to be up to the woman.

Sperm is needed. One ingredient from the male, right? A womb, egg, and female body is also needed.

-AC

Originally posted by Robtard
Well, if you happen to be the father of the child you have a say... Remember, sperm is needed to make a baby.

It's not your womb.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There isn't a future anyway is there? You just proved the point. There is only a future in how we IMAGINE it. It doesn't exist right now, it's not out there somewhere, happening. The only thing we experience is the present.

That's not relevant either. My parents decided they wanted me, ok, so what? What does that have to do with anything? It has no bearing on the present/future argument. They THOUGHT about the future, thinking about it doesn't make it an existing realm.

Surely you figured this out post-high school.

What a way to invalidate everything you say.

Abortion is factually, watch that word...[b]factually not murder. There is 100% no debate you can say against it. Murder is a purely legal term and it has no application to abortion. The only reason people call it murder is because they define the term on their own, and guess what? That doesn't count. I could say "Apple means banana", it wouldn't though, because that's not what it is.

Once again you've proven that you can get anything that isn't as subtle as a car wreck.

-AC [/B]

Again, 'the future has happened so who cares line' is irrelevant. By your rational why should anyone do anything? All actions have consequences towards the future and if the future doesn't matter then why bother doing anything? Wait, I know why, because saying your a nihilist is the trendy thing to do right?

Actually, murder is unlawfully taking the life of another and THERE IS proof that a fetus is alive and a person. We're not talking about removing a growth of cancer, but the way you make it sound, it seems so. And, that is the topic, is a fetus a person and no, it hasn't factually been proven wrong.

Also, save you're pseudo-intellectual psycho babble 'they define the term on their own ' it doesn't make you seem smart, if someone tried to murder you, you wouldn't say "it's not murder, it's only defined as such."

I find it funny how so many pro-lifers get pissed off when In reality it doesn't affect them.

Originally posted by Robtard
Again, 'the future has happened so who cares line' is irrelevant. By your rational why should anyone do anything? All actions have consequences towards the future and if the future doesn't matter then why bother doing anything? Wait, I know why, because saying your a nihilist is the trendy thing to do right?

Actually, murder is unlawfully taking the life of another and THERE IS proof that a fetus is alive and a person. We're not talking about removing a growth of cancer, but the way you make it sound, it seems so. And, that is the topic, is a fetus a person and no, it hasn't factually been proven wrong.

Also, save you're pseudo-intellectual psycho babble 'they define the term on their own ' it doesn't make you seem smart, if someone tried to murder you, you wouldn't say "it's not murder, it's only defined as such."

Hah! You need a serious reality check.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're not the father of every baby, no man is. Either way, as much as a man should have a SAY in the matter, it's ultimately going to be up to the woman.

Sperm is needed. One ingredient from the male, right? A womb, egg, and female body is also needed.

-AC

I know I'm not the father of every baby, that doesn't mean I have to be ok with killing does it? And, killing is the rally the subject of abortion.

Also, your second paragraph proves the point that the father of said fetus SHOULD have a say, since he did provide contribute to the making of the fetus.

Listen, I do not have a perfect answer to abortion. I do believe a fetus is a person and not just a clump of useless cells with a possible potential in the future. But I also do realize that abortion is sometimes necessary and having a blanket of either 'YES" no matter what or 'NO' is not the answer.

If it is kept like it is now, the potential for murder is WAY to high with people using abortion as a convenience, but on the flipside; if abortion is made illegal no matter the case what we have the problems of botched back alley abortions, people to ignorant or messed up to raise a child, babies born so defective they do not survive a week after birth etc. etc.

Originally posted by Kritish
I find it funny how so many pro-lifers get pissed off when In reality it doesn't affect them.

Have you ever stood up for someone or some cause because someone else wouldn't? That's what it boils down to.

Originally posted by Robtard
Have you ever stood up for someone or some cause because someone else wouldn't? That's what it boils down to.

Those blobs of cells without brain activity aren't people. It's like standing up for jello.

Originally posted by Robtard
I know I'm not the father of every baby, that doesn't mean I have to be ok with killing does it? And, killing is the rally the subject of abortion.

Also, your second paragraph proves the point that the father of said fetus SHOULD have a say, since he did provide contribute to the making of the fetus.

Listen, I do not have a perfect answer to abortion. I do believe a fetus is a person and not just a clump of useless cells with a possible potential in the future. But I also do realize that abortion is sometimes necessary and having a blanket of either 'YES" no matter what or 'NO' is not the answer.

If it is kept like it is now, the potential for murder is WAY to high with people using abortion as a convenience, but on the flipside,; if abortion is made illegal no matter the case what we have the problems of botched back alley abortions, people to ignorant or messed up to raise a child, babies born so defective they do not survive a week after birth etc. etc.

Exactly. You disagree with abortion because you FEEL it is WRONG. You BELIEVE the fetus to be a HUMAN/PERSON/INDIVIDUAL when it has no ability to comprehend the way of living.

Originally posted by Robtard
Again, 'the future has happened so who cares line' is irrelevant. By your rational why should anyone do anything? All actions have consequences towards the future and if the future doesn't matter then why bother doing anything? Wait, I know why, because saying your a nihilist is the trendy thing to do right?

It's not irrelavent, at all. It's entirely relevant because people are debating against this woman's right to choose, based on what the foetus is NOT, not what it actually is. Depriving a woman of her right to choose just because you happen to be prone to flights of conceptual daydreaming and emotional knee-jerking.

The actions we take now do, in a way, have an effect, yes. However, that effect is only active in the present. There future is a conceptual idea, it doesn't actually exist. It's not out there, right now, existing. If I say "In the future, I'm going to own a house." it's not a fact that I will. If I die tomorrow, that's it. That's all there is. Tomorrow isn't guaranteed for anyone, no matter how likely it seems. The future isn't a factual, existing realm. It's an idea used to describe what you will do in present times to come. Ergo, don't sit there debating what a foetus will be and why it's wrong to kill it as a result. It won't be anything unless the mother allows such.

Originally posted by Robtard
Actually, murder is unlawfully taking the life of another and THERE IS proof that a fetus is alive and a person.

No, there's proof that it's alive. Not that it's a person. Abortion is never murder by law, why? Because murder is a legal term and...brace yourself, because this is only the 947th time I'll say it, non-applicable to abortion. You really can't grab ideas, can you?

Originally posted by Robtard
We're not talking about removing a growth of cancer, but the way you make it sound, it seems so. And, that is the topic, is a fetus a person and no, it hasn't factually been proven wrong.

The argument of abortion being murder has been proven wrong, because of the simple fact that...well, it's not murder. It's about as simple as that, as you...as that.

Originally posted by Robtard
Also, save you're pseudo-intellectual psycho babble 'they define the term on their own ' it doesn't make you seem smart, if someone tried to murder you, you wouldn't say "it's not murder, it's only defined as such."

No, because that would be murder. I am a living human being and killing me would be unlawful. Killing a foetus isn't unlawful in abortion, therefore it's not murder. Why? Because abortion isn't murder.

Try again when you've done your research, champ.

-AC

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Hah! You need a serious reality check.

That was deep, insiteful and utterly cliche...

Originally posted by Robtard
I know I'm not the father of every baby, that doesn't mean I have to be ok with killing does it? And, killing is the rally the subject of abortion.

Also, your second paragraph proves the point that the father of said fetus SHOULD have a say, since he did provide contribute to the making of the fetus.

Point? Ultimately it's the woman's choice.

Originally posted by Robtard
Listen, I do not have a perfect answer to abortion. I do believe a fetus is a person and not just a clump of useless cells with a possible potential in the future. But I also do realize that abortion is sometimes necessary and having a blanket of either 'YES" no matter what or 'NO' is not the answer.

I have the perfect answer, ready? If you don't like it, don't have one, stay away from abortion clinics and never involve yourself.

It doesn't matter what you believe, though. A foetus is not a person, it's not. I appreciate your quaint "Everyone is right" belief, but you see, here in the real world we have a little divide called fact and opinion. One is objective, one is subjective. A foetus not being a person is the first one and resultantly, undeniable.

Stop talking about the future for crying out loud. It's nothing in the future and it will be nothing in the future. The future is an idea, a concept. It doesn't presently exist. What does exist, is the present itself, you know...that time era where a foetus is...a foetus. It has what potential it's mother decides. It is all made or broken on her choice to either keep or abort. Learn this before debating further.

Originally posted by Robtard
If it is kept like it is now, the potential for murder is WAY to high with people using abortion as a convenience, but on the flipside; if abortion is made illegal no matter the case what we have the problems of botched back alley abortions, people to ignorant or messed up to raise a child, babies born so defective they do not survive a week after birth etc. etc.

You are so stupid.

Using abortion as convenience isn't murder, it's just frivolous killing. Frivolous killing isn't murder. Murder is very specific, and abortion is not it.

-AC