I'm not resorting to ad hominem, at all. Everything I've said has been aimed at, and directly hit, your debates. You're the one with the subtitle of "1 IQ Point Above Retarded", I simply agree.
Originally posted by Robtard
You tried to use the physical appearance of how a baby looks after birth as an arguing point for pro-abortion. That is not only ridiculous, but tells me that you fear childbirth. Think about, how does physical appearance have any place in an abortion debate…
So now you're resorting to telling me what I tried to do? I never used childbirth as an arguing point for pro-abortion, nor am I pro-abortion. I'm pro-choice. I'm pro-whatever the woman decides is best for her. It's entirely up to her.
The only reason I highlighted childbirth was because people have this idea that there's a cute, cuddly baby in the womb, that's all. Get your facts right or stop being desperate.
Originally posted by Robtard
No, I'm not trying to punish people for having sex; I'm saying people need to take responsibility for their actions. They way the abortion laws are now; it's like reckless gambling without the fear of losing money. But you won’t see that.
They do take responsibility, they just don't take responsibility in a way you like. As for what women do in general: Give me one reason why any of this is your business.
Originally posted by Robtard
Do not worry about educating yourself on safe sexual practices and learning how to minimize the chance of pregnancy to as close to zero as you possible can because if you happen to be unlucky and become pregnant when you're not willing to be an abortion is readily available. That's what is wrong.
Full stops and commas are your friend. Learn to type properly please, simple internet debate etiquette. You just posted a chunk of text.
Secondly, you make no sense. Condoms aren't 100% safe from pregnancy, they break, they tear. You have nothing to back yourself up anymore.
Originally posted by Robtard
Oh, look who is calling the kettle black... The sole reason you're for abortion is so you can take less responsibility for your actions.
I can't get pregnant, I'm a guy. I'm not exclusively for abortion, I'm for whatever the woman wants. It's nothing to do with me what she does.
Originally posted by Robtard
This is pointless to debate further, you were correct in your assumption several pages back. I'll never see your view that a fetus 'is not' a person and you'll never see my view that a fetus 'is' a person.
The fact that it's a completely different organism is why it's not a person. It's not a living, breathing, independent human being. It's a foetus.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not resorting to ad hominem, at all. Everything I've said has been aimed at, and directly hit, your debates. You're the one with the subtitle of "1 IQ Point Above Retarded", I simply agree.So now you're resorting to telling me what I tried to do? I never used childbirth as an arguing point for pro-abortion, nor am I pro-abortion. I'm pro-choice. I'm pro-whatever the woman decides is best for her. It's entirely up to her.
The only reason I highlighted childbirth was because people have this idea that there's a cute, cuddly baby in the womb, that's all. Get your facts right or stop being desperate.
They do take responsibility, they just don't take responsibility in a way you like. As for what women do in general: Give me one reason why any of this is your business.
Full stops and commas are your friend. Learn to type properly please, simple internet debate etiquette. You just posted a chunk of text.
Secondly, you make no sense. Condoms aren't 100% safe from pregnancy, they break, they tear. You have nothing to back yourself up anymore.
I can't get pregnant, I'm a guy. I'm not exclusively for abortion, I'm for whatever the woman wants. It's nothing to do with me what she does.
The fact that it's a completely different organism is why it's not a person. It's not a living, breathing, independent human being. It's a foetus.
-AC
Lol, you state "I'm not resorting to ad hominem, at all ." yet a few lines after that you do so... Go figure.
This rest of what you said is pointless to rehash, I think we can both agree that it boils done to; 'is' a fetus a person and we have opposing views and we're not budging.
I just wish you would have shown proof that a fetus is not a person instead of just repeating it over and over. I would have been open to listening to these 'facts'.
Because when you say this:
"The fact that it's a completely different organism is why it's not a person. It's not a living, breathing, independent human being. It's a foetus."
It just isn't so, a fetus is genetically identifiable as a human and a fetus is living, he/she isn't dead during gestation then spontaneously comes to life after passing through the vaginal walls. The only thing you have going for you in that statement is the 'independent' part.
Anyhow, even though you were insulting, I really don't hold anything against you. Maybe we'll find ourselves on the same side of the fence on other subjects.
Originally posted by Robtard
You or anyone else has yet to show evidence that a fetus isn't a person.And like Alpha Centauri, you resort to ad hominem retorts.
*sigh* You only see it that way because you haven't been arguing for 350 pages. When you repeatedly give valid evidence and valid opinions and still people reject it, well **** 'em. You don't understand that you are trying to force your belief on others, then whatever.
Also, it's impossible to prove a negative. It's not on me to proove that a fetus is not a person, you are making the positive assumption that it is a person, therefore the burden of proof is on your shoulders, not mine. To top it off, AC used the very definition of the word 'person' to prove you wrong and you refused to accept it.
And don't bring me that 20 weeks crap, hardly anyone in their right mind would get an abortion at 20 weeks, and it's outlawed in many places to get an abortion after the 12th and 13th week. Which it should be. If a mother can't make a desicison before 3 months, then she doesnt actually want the abortion anyway.
Originally posted by Robtard
I just wish you would have shown proof that a fetus is not a person instead of just repeating it over and over. I would have been open to listening to these 'facts'.
Again, show us some 'facts' or 'proof' that you know of to say, or think, that a 'fetus' is a 'person'? And do not go wit that 20 weeks old crap. I pretty much shut that argument down. So please, elaborate.
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Again, show us some 'facts' or 'proof' that you know of to say, or think, that a 'fetus' is a 'person'? And do not go wit that 20 weeks old crap. I pretty much shut that argument down. So please, elaborate.
Pretty much shutting an argument down isn't shutting it down since abortions (even if looked down upon) are legal up to 20 weeks in some instances.
Also, the burden of proof falls on you in this case since the actions you support could potentially (I say that since we do not agree on the meaning of 'life'😉 kill a person. But here's some more proof and this time it only 11 weeks old.
This is what doctors have to say about an 11 week pregnancy:
Measuring from the crown of his head to his rump, your 1.5-inch/ 4-centimetre fetus has all his parts, from tooth buds to toenails. Your baby is busy kicking and stretching; [his] movements are so fluid they look like water ballet. Fingers and toes have fully separated. Now the fetus's main task during the next six months will be to grow larger and stronger until it can survive on its own outside the womb.
I don't know, seems pretty human to me, and saying it can't survive outside the womb is a valid reason to say it isn't a person is BS. If you were in an accident and needed life support to keep you alive while you healed, you wouldn't be any less of a person would you?
Care to me to show me your proof?
Originally posted by Robtard
Lol, you state "I'm not resorting to ad hominem, at all ." yet a few lines after that you do so... Go figure.
How am I? I'm agreeing with something you said about yourself.
Originally posted by Robtard
This rest of what you said is pointless to rehash, I think we can both agree that it boils done to; 'is' a fetus a person and we have opposing views and we're not budging.
You're ignoring facts. The fact that there are two different things being compared. Human beings and human foetuses, you are wilfully ignoring the difference.
Originally posted by Robtard
I just wish you would have shown proof that a fetus is not a person instead of just repeating it over and over. I would have been open to listening to these 'facts'.
I'm good, but I can't cure wilful ignorance.
Originally posted by Robtard
It just isn't so, a fetus is genetically identifiable as a human and a fetus is living, he/she isn't dead during gestation then spontaneously comes to life after passing through the vaginal walls. The only thing you have going for you in that statement is the 'independent' part.
It's identifiable as a human foetus, not a human being. We are human beings and it doesn't have what we have, it doesn't have that which is considered to be a human being.
It's being sustained and kept alive by a human being.
Originally posted by Robtard
Anyhow, even though you were insulting, I really don't hold anything against you. Maybe we'll find ourselves on the same side of the fence on other subjects.
I'm not saying anything untrue.
Originally posted by Robtard
I don't know, seems pretty human to me, and saying it can't survive outside the womb is a valid reason to say it isn't a person is BS. If you were in an accident and needed life support to keep you alive while you healed, you wouldn't be any less of a person.
The difference is, a human being on life support has reason to be left to recover. Why? Because we have years of proof that this human being has had a life, life experience and human experience. A foetus is just floating, unaware and dependent. Nothing before, nothing after. It just is.
-AC
Originally posted by Robtard
Pretty much shutting an argument down isn't shutting it down since abortions (even if looked down upon) are legal up to 20 weeks in some instances.Also, the burden of proof falls on you in this case since the actions you support could potentially (I say that since we do not agree on the meaning of 'life'😉 kill a person. But here's some more proof and this time it only 11 weeks old.
This is what doctors have to say about an 11 week pregnancy:
Measuring from the crown of his head to his rump, your 1.5-inch/ 4-centimetre fetus has all his parts, from tooth buds to toenails. Your baby is busy kicking and stretching; [his] movements are so fluid they look like water ballet. Fingers and toes have fully separated. Now the fetus's main task during the next six months will be to grow larger and stronger until it can survive on its own outside the womb.
I don't know, seems pretty human to me, and saying it can't survive outside the womb is a valid reason to say it isn't a person is BS. If you were in an accident and needed life support to keep you alive while you healed, you wouldn't be any less of a person would you?
Care to me to show me your proof?
Your so called proof is not sufficient enough... and it never will be. It is not possible to prove that a foetuse is truly a person.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How am I? I'm agreeing with something you said about yourself.You're ignoring facts. The fact that there are two different organisms being compared. Human beings and human foetuses, you are wilfully ignoring the difference.
I'm good, but I can't cure wilful ignorance.
It's identifiable as a human foetus, not a human being. We are human beings and it doesn't have what we have, it doesn't have that which is considered to be a human being.
It's being sustained and kept alive by a human being.
I'm not saying anything untrue.
The difference is, a human being on life support has reason to be left to recover. Why? Because we have years of proof that this human being has had a life, life experience and human experience. A foetus is just floating, unaware and dependent. Nothing before, nothing after. It just is.
-AC
Either you lack the mental capacity to see a stupid joke for what it is and that’s why you lashed out OR you're immature and far to much of a coward to except his argumentum ad hominem ways. Take your pick.
Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Your so called proof is not sufficient enough... and it never will be. It is not possible to prove that a foetuse is truly a person.
Fine, don't accept it, that's perfectly fine, but for f#$k's sake stop with the 'I'M RIGHT BECAUSE I KEEP REPEATING IT!' drivel.
What does it mean when a person refutes proof presented to them, yet cannot provide proof him/herself to counter?
Originally posted by Robtard
Either you lack the mental capacity to see a stupid joke for what it is and that’s why you lashed out OR you're immature and far to much of a coward to except his argumentum ad hominem ways. Take your pick.
Did you just skip an entire post worth of debate in favour of highlighting a single, irrelevant line?
Fell right into the trap. So eager to dodge my arguments that you'll risk being a hypocrite.
Originally posted by Robtard
What does it mean when a person refutes proof presented to them, yet cannot provide proof him/herself to counter?
You've been doing exactly this.
-AC
Originally posted by RobtardI don't know, seems pretty human to me, and saying it can't survive outside the womb is a valid reason to say it isn't a person is BS. If you were in an accident and needed life support to keep you alive while you healed, you wouldn't be any less of a person would you?
Care to me to show me your proof?
Yea, noone is denying it is human. It's not a chicken fetus. But it's not a person. Even your source doesn't dare call it a person, they call it a fetus.
The difference is that while they both are dependant on something to survive, the car accident victim has family, friends, aquaintences, and an actual life. People will be sorry that he's gone, because they knew him and developed an emotional attachement. What does the fetus have? It's mother, and if she's getting an abortion, the mother either doesn't want or can't have him. That fetus has no other relationships(an argument can be made for the father i guess) and if his mother can't/won't have it, it has nothing. It's abortion will effect NOONE.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Did you just skip an entire post worth of debate in favour of highlighting a single, irrelevant line?Fell right into the trap. So eager to dodge my arguments that you'll risk being a hypocrite.
You've been doing exactly this.
-AC
Ooooo, your deadly trap, oh my; how will I ever survive! And, remember me saying something alongs the line of "We'll never see each others view on 'is' a fetus a person."? You should have, since you stated this would go in circles several pages back and that was me agreeing with you.. Duh.
Besides saying 'I know you are, but want am I!'... You have offered nothing here.
So say what you will and get as many girls as you like pregnant and abort as many of those children as you feel is necessary, since after all, it is your and your partners legal right to do so. But at least have the balls and ask to view what you just aborted because it is easy to talk tough if you don't have to face the consequences of your actions. But I am CERTAIN will not.
Originally posted by PVS
look, i know its a correct spelling, but its annoying.
its a testiment to the arrogance of the english to unecessarily change
the spelling of a word when the original latin word is also valid.
when i read that my mind says "fowtus" and it drives me mad
I think you just hate foeti.
Originally posted by Robtard
Ooooo, your deadly trap, oh my; how will I ever survive! And, remember me saying something alongs the line of "We'll never see each others view on 'is' a fetus a person."? You should have, since you stated this would go in circles several pages back and that was me agreeing with you.. Duh.Besides saying 'I know you are, but want am I!'... You have offered nothing here.
Just shut up already. You've offered nothing more than we have. Your argument is just as subjective as ours.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I don't recall saying that, but the fact is, your source (as pointed out) didn't even refer to a foetus as a person, because it's not one.It's just a foetus. You are suspending the belief that it's a person because you know that admitting otherwise would make you look a bit silly.
-AC
It's just a fetus. You are suspending the belief that it isn't a person because you know that admitting otherwise would make you look a bit silly.
See, I can do it too...