Abortion

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
That is not what I am saying. I don't have a "If I'm going down, I am taking you all with me" mentality. There is just a certain way I see things, and I am being ridiculed for it. Am I calling you a murderous bastard because you believe in abortion? No. I accept your line of thinking, and though I do not agree with it, I don't bash you for it. What you are really pissed off about is that despite all your attempts, you have not convinced me. Would you rather have me crumble under the pressure and agree with you, or would you rather me explain why I believe the things I do?

Why are you acting like it's your opinion vs ours?

We're proving things to you, factually, and you fail to admit where you are wrong or misinformed.

It's not your opinion vs ours, that's what you fail to understand. It's not about subjectivity and how you "see" things. Sticking to your guns after you've been proven wrong doesn't make you honourable, it makes you stupid.

You think that because you have freely established a way of seeing things, it's not wrong and it's your word vs ours. That's not the case, you've been proven wrong and you won't accept fact, despite it being proven to you in overwhelming amounts. Don't pull the pity act of "B-but you're all being mean to me for what I believe.", no, you're wrong on many counts, so we're proving it and you're either ignoring it or giving some fence-sitter reply to avoid admittance of being wrong.

If you cannot accept fact and confuse fact with opinion, you shouldn't get into debates. You're an ignorant man.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why are you acting like it's your opinion vs ours?

We're proving things to you, factually, and you fail to admit where you are wrong or misinformed.

It's not your opinion vs ours, that's what you fail to understand. It's not about subjectivity and how you "see" things. Sticking to your guns after you've been proven wrong doesn't make you honourable, it makes you stupid.

You think that because you have freely established a way of seeing things, it's not wrong and it's your word vs ours. That's not the case, you've been proven wrong and you won't accept fact, despite it being proven to you in overwhelming amounts. Don't pull the pity act of "B-but you're all being mean to me for what I believe.", no, you're wrong on many counts, so we're proving it and you're either ignoring it or giving some fence-sitter reply to avoid admittance of being wrong.

If you cannot accept fact and confuse fact with opinion, you shouldn't get into debates. You're an ignorant man.

-AC

You have switched appearance style cry I liked your old one 😎

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
That is not what I am saying. I don't have a "If I'm going down, I am taking you all with me" mentality. There is just a certain way I see things, and I am being ridiculed for it. Am I calling you a murderous bastard because you believe in abortion? No. I accept your line of thinking, and though I do not agree with it, I don't bash you for it. What you are really pissed off about is that despite all your attempts, you have not convinced me. Would you rather have me crumble under the pressure and agree with you, or would you rather me explain why I believe the things I do?

People are however calling you ignorant, hypocritical and/or willing to oppress a group of people, based on that you'd vote for a ban on abortion despite having said you'd not force your opinions on others. Because factually you are all of the above.

Murderous would be factually inaccurate - as proven on multiple pages by multiple people in multiple posts - regardless of whether or not I'm subjectively a bastard to you.

Convince you of what?
That the decision to carry a pregnancy to term or not to, is the woman's? I in no way expect to convince you.
That you have made contradictory and hypocritical statements? I don't need to convince you. I don't need you to believe you have. The proof is in the proverbial pudding. Factually you have.
People have just been seeing if you have the conviction to admit to it. And people have just been seeing if you have the conviction to simply say, "Yes, I'd vote for a ban on abortion, even though it would amount to forcing my beliefs on others."

You've partially done this but moved onto the strange tactic of subjectively "believing" that a pro-choice vote in any way affects the autonomous beliefs of anyone, which is objectively, factually inaccurate - as proven by multiple people, over multiple posts and multiple pages.

Rogue Jedi- please refrain from saying 'I could care less'.

It means the exact opposite of what you are trying to say.

You guys still talk about this? Didn't I say everything that could be said when it first came up?

Originally posted by Bardock42
You guys still talk about this? Didn't I say everything that could be said when it first came up?

Almost- I added the idiotcough part. Then it had run its course.

Everything after that is like trying to induce Stephen Hawking into walking by doing progressively more backflips.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Almost- I added the idiotcough part. Then it had run its course.

Everything after that is like trying to induce Stephen Hawking into walking by doing progressively more backflips.

Oh yeah, the idiot part. Very necessary.
Also like the "care less" thing.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Rogue Jedi- please refrain from saying 'I could care less'.

It means the exact opposite of what you are trying to say.

Anyone can say anyting.Maybe he cares less on what you say.Since one of you is right and the other is wrong.So far I am siding with Jedi!jm 🙂

by AC
I know many pro-lifers who aren't oppressive idiots.

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
Anyone can say anyting.Maybe he cares less on what you say.Since one of you is right and the other is wrong.So far I am siding with Jedi!jm 🙂

Cares less than what?

You idiot. he meanst to say that he cares very little, so little even that it is impossible to care less. Get it?

You siding with someone should be considered sudden death anyways.

THat is the promblem with people who are pro-abortion they think that anyone who is pro-life are dumb and likes to insult because they know we are right and they are wrong.
This is a debate people insulting others is not going to prove anything.So why do it?It seens that insulting is the only chance you got thta is why.
Pretty pitaful if you ask me!jm

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
THat is the promblem with people who are pro-abortion they think that anyone who is pro-life are dumb and likes to insult because they know we are right and they are wrong.
This is a debate people insulting others is not going to prove anything.So why do it?It seens that insulting is the only chance you got thta is why.
Pretty pitaful if you ask me!jm

You are right according to you and your beliefs... that doesnt make me wrong for being pro-chocie.

And since when does anyone use the term pro-abortion?

I was not talking about you I was talking about the others.You are fine and have good debate skulls.People who around insulting others have none!Got to go anyway feel sick.jm

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
THat is the promblem with people who are pro-abortion they think that anyone who is pro-life are dumb and likes to insult because they know we are right and they are wrong.
This is a debate people insulting others is not going to prove anything.So why do it?It seens that insulting is the only chance you got thta is why.
Pretty pitaful if you ask me!jm

Incorrect.

I, can factually prove that you are an idiot. Not every anti-choice person is, but you are.

The reason why we call idiots is because though we bring on arguments, facts, evidence, etc. for pages they are disregarded and misunderstood, by stupid people like you.

I can destroy you in every reasonable debate, I could argue that the earth is flat and consists of marshmellows and you would be unable to outdebate me, but your approach is different, you just ignore everything, it is tedious. I hate you.

You are this:

YouTube video

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
THat is the promblem with people who are pro-abortion they think that anyone who is pro-life are dumb and likes to insult because they know we are right and they are wrong.
This is a debate people insulting others is not going to prove anything.So why do it?It seens that insulting is the only chance you got thta is why.
Pretty pitaful if you ask me!jm

I am trying to help you jm. I haven't insulted anyone either.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
That is not what I am saying. I don't have a "If I'm going down, I am taking you all with me" mentality. There is just a certain way I see things, and I am being ridiculed for it. Am I calling you a murderous bastard because you believe in abortion? No. I accept your line of thinking, and though I do not agree with it, I don't bash you for it. What you are really pissed off about is that despite all your attempts, you have not convinced me. Would you rather have me crumble under the pressure and agree with you, or would you rather me explain why I believe the things I do?

Originally posted by StyleTime
Do you even realize that you don't have to personally agree with abortion to be pro-choice?

Also, noone is bashing for you for your personal beliefs. I haven't bashed you at all actually. We're just trying to help enlighten you.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Do you even realize that you don't have to personally agree with abortion to be pro-choice?

Well, you have to agree that the fetus is not a human person and so, has no rights. Because if you thought they did have rights and you were still pro-choice you'd have a lot of moral confusion going on.

Originally posted by StyleTime
...The problem with [B]you is that you believe anyone here is actually pro-abortion. Noone is trying to make anyone get an abortion. I'll reiterate for you. Until you stop saying "pro-abortion", noone here is going to take you seriously.

Thats not true. Theres no middle ground on a debate like this...which is the way many try to paint themselves as -the democratic non-partisan for tricky subjects like abortion...

Even minus my own feelings, although probably apparent, if you are saying "Pro-choice" that means indefinately that you are perfectly fine with abortions -as long as they are with someone else. If you choose to put it in the third person, then you're just saying, 'im not taking part in this at all', and basically that just means you are allowing abortion, therefore you are "PRO-abortion".

The funny thing is, no "pro-choice" people like to use the term "pro-abortion" because that makes you seem like you are supporting abortion firsthand, which might lead people to beleive you have had abortions yourself. And you might not like the actual act of abortion, because its disgusting or whatever...so you say "Im pro-CHOICE". But whats the difference?

SCENARIO: A radical leader is massacreing his people in some random country (in africa lets just say). You could choose to support your nation going to the help of those people -you would be "Pro-action" (lets say pro-life). You could choose to deliberately say that you "Support the violence "(Pro-abortion)-but no one is going to do that because you look like a homicidal idiot. Or you could just say "We shouldn't get involved" -(which is basically your "Pro-choice"😉. What you fail to recognize by "not getting involved" is that you are still allowing the violence to continue, therefore people are still dying on the account of your not taking action. And in a historical and military context, when you deliberately do not take action in defense of others, you are helping the killers -therefore essentially taking part in "supporting the violence."

There is no "pro-choice". Either you think abortion is right or it is not.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Thats not true. Theres no middle ground on a debate like this...which is the way many try to paint themselves as -the democratic non-partisan for tricky subjects like abortion...

Even minus my own feelings, although probably apparent, if you are saying "Pro-choice" that means indefinately that you are perfectly fine with abortions -as long as they are with someone else. If you choose to put it in the third person, then you're just saying, 'im not taking part in this at all', and basically that just means you are allowing abortion, therefore you are "PRO-abortion".

The funny thing is, no "pro-choice" people like to use the term "pro-abortion" because that makes you seem like you are supporting abortion firsthand, which might lead people to beleive you have had abortions yourself. And you might not like the actual act of abortion, because its disgusting or whatever...so you say "Im pro-CHOICE". But whats the difference?

SCENARIO: A radical leader is massacreing his people in some random country (in africa lets just say). You could choose to support your nation going to the help of those people -you would be "Pro-action" (lets say pro-life). You could choose to deliberately say that you "Support the violence "(Pro-abortion)-but no one is going to do that because you look like a homicidal idiot. Or you could just say "We shouldn't get involved" -(which is basically your "Pro-choice"😉. What you fail to recognize by "not getting involved" is that you are still allowing the violence to continue, therefore people are still dying on the account of your not taking action. And in a historical and military context, when you deliberately do not take action in defense of others, you are helping the killers -therefore essentially taking part in "supporting the violence."

There is no "pro-choice". Either you think abortion is right or it is not.

Originally posted by Ytse
Well, you have to agree that the fetus is not a human person and so, has no rights. Because if you thought they did have rights and you were still pro-choice you'd have a lot of moral confusion going on.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Thats not true. Theres no middle ground on a debate like this...which is the way many try to paint themselves as -the democratic non-partisan for tricky subjects like abortion...

Even minus my own feelings, although probably apparent, if you are saying "Pro-choice" that means indefinately that you are perfectly fine with abortions -as long as they are with someone else. If you choose to put it in the third person, then you're just saying, 'im not taking part in this at all', and basically that just means you are allowing abortion, therefore you are "PRO-abortion".

The funny thing is, no "pro-choice" people like to use the term "pro-abortion" because that makes you seem like you are supporting abortion firsthand, which might lead people to beleive you have had abortions yourself. And you might not like the actual act of abortion, because its disgusting or whatever...so you say "Im pro-CHOICE". But whats the difference?

SCENARIO: A radical leader is massacreing his people in some random country (in africa lets just say). You could choose to support your nation going to the help of those people -you would be "Pro-action" (lets say pro-life). You could choose to deliberately say that you "Support the violence "(Pro-abortion)-but no one is going to do that because you look like a homicidal idiot. Or you could just say "We shouldn't get involved" -(which is basically your "Pro-choice"😉. What you fail to recognize by "not getting involved" is that you are still allowing the violence to continue, therefore people are still dying on the account of your not taking action. And in a historical and military context, when you deliberately do not take action in defense of others, you are helping the killers -therefore essentially taking part in "supporting the violence."

There is no "pro-choice". Either you think abortion is right or it is not.

I needn't address the rest as I am sure you realize that it's just your own personal "insight" into the psyche of the pro-choice mind.

Your analogy is also flawed and irrelevant.

I do applaud your civilized response though.

Originally posted by StyleTime
......So you agree with me.

I'm not sure. I personally think it's sort of bizarre to be pro-choice while being anti-abortion. How do you reconcile whatever beliefs you had that made you against abortion with your position that it should be a viable choice for women or couples?

In the Western world we believe people have certain inborn or inalienable rights. If you believe a fetus to be a human person (and thus, possessing these rights) yet also believe that the right to kill that fetus via abortion should be upheld...well, as I said it's very confusing to me.