Abortion

Originally posted by Bardock42
Pro-life on the other hand is also incorrect. Since, pro-choice people are not against life. It should really be, pro-chpice and anti-choice, because they are the most accurate descriptions.

Actually it would be more accurate as "anti-choice" and "pro-abortion". Because pro-life is anti-choice in this matter. And say what you want, you are pro-abortion.

You are incorrect. You are not "pro-abortion", it is incorrect terminology, since we wouldn't want people to have abortions, but to have the choice.

Incorrect terminology? How so. If you dont want abortions, you cant also allow the choice of them. Thats like saying "I dont like carrying guns into public, but its OK if everyone else does because its a democracy". Pro-choice...that can carry into any subject. Its just an excuse for not being able to support one way or the other. Its the U.N. policy of DO NOTHING.

If you are really "Pro-choice" you wouldnt really care if abortions were all banned because the people CHOSE to ban them. So stop arguing if thats what you want. Pro-choice is a lie, and thats the way its always been. Stick up for your side.

So "anti-choice" and "pro-abortion". See? Doesnt that make a compimise?

Actually it would be more accurate as "anti-choice" and "pro-abortion". Because pro-life is anti-choice in this matter. And say what you want, you are pro-abortion.

Please explain how you reached that incredibly idiotic conclusion?

Pro-abortion people say that abortion should be legal, they don't say it should always be done. They just give people a choice, thus pro-choice. And pro-life is definitely anti-choice seeing as it removes a choice...

How the hell can it not be anti-choice if takes away your right to choose.

Incorrect terminology? How so. If you dont want abortions, you cant also allow the choice of them. Thats like saying "I dont like carrying guns into public, but its OK if everyone else does because its a democracy". Pro-choice...that can carry into any subject. Its just an excuse for not being able to support one way or the other. Its the U.N. policy of DO NOTHING.

If you are really "Pro-choice" you wouldnt really care if abortions were all banned because the people CHOSE to ban them. So stop arguing if thats what you want. Pro-choice is a lie, and thats the way its always been. Stick up for your side.

So "anti-choice" and "pro-abortion". See? Doesnt that make a compimise?

No that would mean 50% or more of the population would be against abortion... Well it should mean that, it likely doesn't because there are more issues and the politicians decide not the people, if a referundum would be held then it would mean 50%+1 of the population would feel that abortion is wrong.

That would still remove the right of choice from those that didn't agree with banning abortion. So obviously not a good solution for people that think abortion should just be allowed.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Actually it would be more accurate as "anti-choice" and "pro-abortion". Because pro-life is anti-choice in this matter. And say what you want, you are pro-abortion.

Incorrect terminology? How so. If you dont want abortions, you cant also allow the choice of them. Thats like saying "I dont like carrying guns into public, but its OK if everyone else does because its a democracy". Pro-choice...that can carry into any subject. Its just an excuse for not being able to support one way or the other. Its the U.N. policy of DO NOTHING.

If you are really "Pro-choice" you wouldnt really care if abortions were all banned because the people CHOSE to ban them. So stop arguing if thats what you want. Pro-choice is a lie, and thats the way its always been. Stick up for your side.

So "anti-choice" and "pro-abortion". See? Doesnt that make a compimise?

1. to abort

2. not to abort

Its about choice.

You are right that people can choose to ban abortion but in doing so, my right to choose if having an abortion is right for me has been taken away.

Yes I would care if abortions were banned because I wouldnt be able to choose to have one.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Actually it would be more accurate as "anti-choice" and "pro-abortion". Because pro-life is anti-choice in this matter. And say what you want, you are pro-abortion.

Incorrect terminology? How so. If you dont want abortions, you cant also allow the choice of them. Thats like saying "I dont like carrying guns into public, but its OK if everyone else does because its a democracy". Pro-choice...that can carry into any subject. Its just an excuse for not being able to support one way or the other. Its the U.N. policy of DO NOTHING.

If you are really "Pro-choice" you wouldnt really care if abortions were all banned because the people CHOSE to ban them. So stop arguing if thats what you want. Pro-choice is a lie, and thats the way its always been. Stick up for your side.

So "anti-choice" and "pro-abortion". See? Doesnt that make a compimise?

N-no. Not pro abortion. Pro-abortion-as-a-choice maybe, but not "pro-abortion".

But I don't want abortions per say, i want the possibility. pro abortion would be that I want everyone to have abortions, I don't. I want them to have the choice so I am pro (for) choice (the choice of having an abortion or not). Easy as that. Of course, anti-choice people generally don't understand, being factually less intelligent. But no matter.

Woah, easy, I am pro-choice, not pro-choice-of-the-majority-forced-on-all-others. Just get it in your head, pro-chpice is correct labelling.

And that would make a compromise, it would be incorrect labeling of my stance though, so, no, not pro-abortion. You may call me that, but you are wrong.

I agree, though, if you don't want anyone to have an abortion, it would be stupid, to be pro-choice. You could for yourself not want an abortion though, which would not make you pro-abortion.

God I hate ****ing "pro-life" idiots, they are soo stupid. It irritates me excessively.

Originally posted by Fishy
Please explain how you reached that incredibly idiotic conclusion?
Pro-abortion people say that abortion should be legal, they don't say it should always be done. They just give people a choice, thus pro-choice. And pro-life is definitely anti-choice seeing as it removes a choice...
How the hell can it not be anti-choice if takes away your right to choose.

"Pro-abortion people say that abortion should be legal, they don't say it should always be done." --You do realize what you just said, dont you?

"And pro-life is definitely anti-choice seeing as it removes a choice...
How the hell can it not be anti-choice if takes away your right to choose."

...Um, whos the idiot now? What did I JUST say. I said 'pro-life' IS 'anti-choice'. I admitted that. Is this not English? Why is everyone so mean and pushy.

No that would mean 50% or more of the population would be against abortion... Well it should mean that, it likely doesn't because there are more issues and the politicians decide not the people, if a referundum would be held then it would mean 50%+1 of the population would feel that abortion is wrong.

That would still remove the right of choice from those that didn't agree with banning abortion. So obviously not a good solution for people that think abortion should just be allowed.

50% or more of the population probably IS against abortion. In pro-life "anti-choice" opinion, there SHOULDNT be the option of abortion for any ordinary at-a-whim circumstances. I dont beleive that abortion should just be allowed. I dont really follow anything else though that you said.

Originally posted by Shelbert Lemon
You dont make any sense at all... being pro-choice, I support the right to choose if getting an abortion or if allowing my pregnancy to go full term is right for me.

1. to abort

2. not to abort

Its about choice.

You are right that people can choose to ban abortion but in doing so, my right to choose if having an abortion is right for me has been taken away.

Yes I would care if abortions were banned because I wouldnt be able to choose to have one.

The choice of having an abortion means you think they are ok, therefore you are dictionarily Pro-abortion, even if you 'choose' not to have one yourself. Thats the fundamental truth of the matter. No one just wants to accept it.

If you are pro-choice, yes, all of the above are okay by you, but you are also pro-all-of-the-above, which means you are pro-abortion in there as well.

We dont give people the legal "choice" of doing drugs...at least not in America. Imagine how much worse the drug trade would be if they were legalized and everyone had the right to "choose". Thats billions of tax dollars lost annually.

Originally posted by Bardock42
N-no. Not pro abortion. Pro-abortion-as-a-choice maybe, but not "pro-abortion".

But I don't want abortions per say, i want the possibility. pro abortion would be that I want everyone to have abortions, I don't. I want them to have the choice so I am pro (for) choice (the choice of having an abortion or not). Easy as that. Of course, anti-choice people generally don't understand, being factually less intelligent. But no matter.

Woah, easy, I am pro-choice, not pro-choice-of-the-majority-forced-on-all-others. Just get it in your head, pro-chpice is correct labelling.

And that would make a compromise, it would be incorrect labeling of my stance though, so, no, not pro-abortion. You may call me that, but you are wrong.

I agree, though, if you don't want anyone to have an abortion, it would be stupid, to be pro-choice. You could for yourself not want an abortion though, which would not make you pro-abortion.

God I hate ****ing "pro-life" idiots, they are soo stupid. It irritates me excessively.

NO NO NO. Pro-abortion DOES NOT mean that you expect everyone to have abortions. Who the hell thinks that? It means you think they are acceptable only. Pro-choice (abortion is acceptable for those that choose) and Pro-abortion (abortion is acceptable for those that choose) is EXACTLY THE SAME. Who came up with that BS line that say there is a difference between the two? If you think the choice of abortions is alright, you are supporting abortions, even if indirectly.

Pro-abortion isnt bad, its just an opinion that is mislabelled. I dont agree with it but thats alright with me. Thats why we have civilized debates. Keyword: civilized.

You call it "actually pro-abortion" and then explain it as pro-choice? That might be why it's called pro-choice.

BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SAME!!! Thats what Ive been saying this whole time. Its a minor detail that everyone is making a big deal about. Im not even arguing about abortion and everyone gets all defensive.

Calling it pro-choice is the lesser of two evils in my mind. Why not just be direct and say you support abortions?

In our language, English, words have meanings and the rules of the language dictate how those words are to be used. This is why there is no such thing as pro-abortion.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
NO NO NO. Pro-abortion DOES NOT mean that you expect everyone to have abortions. Who the hell thinks that? It means you think they are acceptable only. Pro-choice (abortion is acceptable for those that choose) and Pro-abortion (abortion is acceptable for those that choose) is EXACTLY THE SAME. Who came up with that BS line that say there is a difference between the two? If you think the choice of abortions is alright, you are supporting abortions, even if indirectly.

Pro-abortion isnt bad, its just an opinion that is mislabelled. I dont agree with it but thats alright with me. Thats why we have civilized debates. Keyword: civilized.

No, that is what you want it to mean. It doesn't.

Pro-choice means that you are for (pro) the choice of getting an abortion or not.
Pro-abortion means that you are for (pro) ... abortion. It doesn't even make sense. No one is for abortion.

Also, you are contradicting yourself. If you say that pro-choice and pro-abortion are exactly the same, why not call us pro-choice? and no, we are not supporting abortion. We are indifferent towards abortion, we support the choice.

And I am not saying that pro-abortion is bad, it is just a mislabel that does not apply to my ideals, so I would prefer not to be called it, cause I am not.

And we don't have a civilized discourse at all, as the opposite side (anti-choice) is so dense that no arguments, facts, proof get to them.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Why not just be direct and say you support abortions?

Originally posted by Ytse
I'm not sure. I personally think it's sort of bizarre to be pro-choice while being anti-abortion. How do you reconcile whatever beliefs you had that made you against abortion with your position that it should be a viable choice for women or couples?

In the Western world we believe people have certain inborn or inalienable rights. If you believe a fetus to be a human person (and thus, possessing these rights) yet also believe that the right to kill that fetus via abortion should be upheld...well, as I said it's very confusing to me.

It's fine to be confused by it, and at least you're trying to understand. You seem to recognize that some people are able to separate their own beliefs from someone else's though, so I'm not sure why we're still talking about it honestly. I'm not being mean or anything. Just saying.

Were you asking me to explain it? If so, I can't give just one, all-ecompassing answer because different people may have different reasons. One possibility is that some people consider the rights of the mother to simply outweigh the rights of the fetus assuming the fetus has any rights. Others realize a fetus isn't a human, but may still be against personally obtaining an abortion while not wanting to infringe upon someone else's right to do so.

Originally posted by Ytse
If you believe a fetus to be a human person

You'd be wrong, and many worldwide courts and science would be happy to stand in your way and disagree.

Also consider many abortions happen even earlier.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Why not just be direct and say you support abortions?

Isn't that also pro-choice? Supporting the idea of abortions is very different to pushing for women to have them.

I'm not out to make women have abortions. I don't care if they have abortions or keep the baby, whatever works best for the woman. It's pro-choice.

-AC

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, that is what you want it to mean. It doesn't.

Pro-choice means that you are for (pro) the choice of getting an abortion or not.
Pro-abortion means that you are for (pro) ... abortion. It doesn't even make sense. No one is for abortion.

Also, you are contradicting yourself. If you say that pro-choice and pro-abortion are exactly the same, why not call us pro-choice? and no, we are not supporting abortion. We are indifferent towards abortion, we support the choice.

And I am not saying that pro-abortion is bad, it is just a mislabel that does not apply to my ideals, so I would prefer not to be called it, cause I am not.

And im going to go back to the first arguement. That is, if you allow something, you are supporting it indirectly. And yes, you are also pro-choice, but you cannot be pro-choice without be pro-abortion.

Its been politically called Pro-abortion, and thats what it was first called. Pro-choice was a later "revisal" of the term to make it sound less threatening to people who might support the idea.

http://www.allaboutpopularissues.org/pro-abortion.htm I would encourage you to read "DEFINITION OF PRO-Abortion"

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=9417

http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/05/amnesty_international_blasted_.php

The list goes on and on.

And we don't have a civilized discourse at all, as the opposite side (anti-choice) is so dense that no arguments, facts, proof get to them.

Ditto my friend. 😎

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
And im going to go back to the first arguement. That is, if you allow something, you are supporting it indirectly. And yes, you are also pro-choice, but you cannot be pro-choice without be pro-abortion.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Its been politically called Pro-abortion, and thats what it was first called. Pro-choice was a later "revisal" of the term to make it sound less threatening to people who might support the idea.

No, it is just a more correct term fort he set of believes. Because you are not for abortion, but for the choice. It doesn'td escribe the people that believe it very well. It is bad labelling.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
http://www.allaboutpopularissues.org/pro-abortion.htm I would encourage you to read "DEFINITION OF PRO-Abortion"

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=9417

http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/05/amnesty_international_blasted_.php

The list goes on and on.

So what? Since no one denied that...maybe drink a bit of the good old STFU juice.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Ditto my friend. 😎

Just that I am correct. Somehow the stupid anti-choice people think that whatever a smart pro-choice person says can be applied for their site too. That is not the case, you actually have to find your own arguments...oh, and the reason you don't find them is because you are wrong.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost

The choice of having an abortion means you think they are ok, therefore you are dictionarily Pro-abortion, even if you 'choose' not to have one yourself. Thats the fundamental truth of the matter. No one just wants to accept it.

If you are pro-choice, yes, all of the above are okay by you, but you are also pro-all-of-the-above, which means you are pro-abortion in there as well.

We dont give people the legal "choice" of doing drugs...at least not in America. Imagine how much worse the drug trade would be if they were legalized and everyone had the right to "choose". Thats billions of tax dollars lost annually.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost

NO NO NO. Pro-abortion DOES NOT mean that you expect everyone to have abortions. Who the hell thinks that? It means you think they are acceptable only. Pro-choice (abortion is acceptable for those that choose) and Pro-abortion (abortion is acceptable for those that choose) is EXACTLY THE SAME. Who came up with that BS line that say there is a difference between the two? If you think the choice of abortions is alright, you are supporting abortions, even if indirectly.

Pro-abortion isnt bad, its just an opinion that is mislabelled. I dont agree with it but thats alright with me. Thats why we have civilized debates. Keyword: civilized.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
And im going to go back to the first arguement. That is, if you allow something, you are supporting it indirectly. And yes, you are also pro-choice, but you cannot be pro-choice without be pro-abortion.

Its been politically called Pro-abortion, and thats what it was first called. Pro-choice was a later "revisal" of the term to make it sound less threatening to people who might support the idea.

http://www.allaboutpopularissues.org/pro-abortion.htm I would encourage you to read "DEFINITION OF PRO-Abortion"

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=9417

http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/05/amnesty_international_blasted_.php

I predict that none of these links will be taken seriously.

I've never been wrong so far by the way.

That is a religious site. Why would they not call it "pro-abortion"? They are making everyone who is pro-choice out to be baby hating, killing machines.

Originally posted by StyleTime
You will have to ask someone who has done that. Many sensible people just realize that you shouldn't force your beliefs upon someone else.

Legislature doesn't force beliefs. It forces behavior.

It's fine to be confused by it, and at least you're trying to understand.

No, what I meant when I said it was confusing was that it was incoherent and arbitrary.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You'd be wrong, and many worldwide courts and science would be happy to stand in your way and disagree.

I've already referenced Justice Blackmun's notes on Roe v Wade. He said the point he chose as to when life began was arbitrary and for legislative purposes. How can science or law tell you what it means to be a human being?

Originally posted by Ytse
How can science or law tell you what it means to be a human being?

What it "means" to be human is different than actually, definitively being a human being.

-AC

ok, id like to join the prolife camp. do i require some type of irreparable brain damage or would it suffice to simply smoke crack?

*smokes crack*

ZOMG I HAVE THE PROOF DAT ABBORTION IZ MURDERERERZ:

www.AbortionIzMurderzLOLOLZzz.com