Originally posted by Schecteryou commented on how if one is raised to believe abortion is wrong, and they carry those beliefs into their adulthood, simply because they were TAUGHT it, that they were incapable of independent thought, rendering them idiots. correct?
you oversimplified and completely changed the point, so no its not just tomatoes/tomahtoes.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
you commented on how if one is raised to believe abortion is wrong, and they carry those beliefs into their adulthood, simply because they were TAUGHT it, that they were incapable of independent thought, rendering them idiots. correct?
I'd agree with that.
If you reach adulthood with a belief simply because "My parents raised me this way.", it suggests a lack of independent thought and stupidity.
If you agree independently and by coincidence, fair enough.
-AC
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
Both my parents are pro-life and we had to pick what we thought were our beliefs.We did hear both.Got to go.jm
you heard both sides from one source. great.
*sits jackie down*
mom: you see jackie, you can either be prolife or proabortion.
dad: thats right jackie. you see some people enjoy killing babies to please satan, while others like us believe that babies are sweet an innocent and shouldnt be murdered.
mom: you're father's right, dear. so you have to come to a decision. do you like little babies or do you want to have them killed?
jackie: well do they at least make their deaths painless?
dad: correction. thats 'inleast', honey. and yes, its always painful. so painful it sometimes makes even satan cry. but the pain and suffering of babies is what pleases liberals.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
you commented on how if one is raised to believe abortion is wrong, and they carry those beliefs into their adulthood, simply because they were TAUGHT it, that they were incapable of independent thought, rendering them idiots. correct?
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
This whole place is full of a lot of angry people, that was my first insight upon discovering the KMC "debate" areas. It took me to actually get into the conversations to realize why everyone was angry. 😉 And for all the arguments, I'll bet no one has ever changed their mind on anything.
Thats incorrect, people change their minds. Generally it happens to be the same ones that argue pro-choice though and only if confronted with facts. Cause they are smarter.
Of course there are lot of angry people here. I mean there are lot of idiots, like JM, and she makes intelligent people that see that she is allowed to vote very angry. Makes sense, dunnit?
Originally posted by FeceManThere is no evidence that there is a set of rules that must apply to everybody. The very idea is paradox, how would they come about, where are they, what are they, who made them, why were they allowed to make them, why are the absolute, why aren't mine absolute, does the person that made them have to accept them, can they change them, where do we find them, are they certainly against abortion? Why? Why does everyone have different opinions on them? Etc.
This thread is still kicking?I'm contemplating posting in here again...hmm. I mean, I'll eventually get fed up and stop posting in this thread for several months, 'cause that's what has always happened in the past, but it's so tempting...
Ah, what the hell.
Re: The subjectivity of morality.
Morality is objective, not subjective. (What? You ask me to justify my position? Justify yours first.)
You can not prove shit, while, the very idea of them is flawed. Even if your God made them..they aren't absolute, they are subjectively his, and he might be able to enforce them, but might doesn't make right.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Then don't go around saying "I'll give you a debate.".
Then wait until it ever happens to you, if it ever does. You have absolutely no business in anyone else's affairs. Not much more can be said on that subject.
Why would I care about everyone else's affairs? Because its right, because what happens to one person and their choices will carry on to others. Because trends are set by bad example and when no one steps up to do anythign about it, things get worse. And because Im not going to sit around and watch the world fall apart piece by piece with every little science experiment that gets made. Abortion, likewise the irresponsibility along with, hurts people. Emotionally, and through carelessness, physically. Which sets the stage for further trouble in the future. If those peopel ever do decide to have children, they'll be total ignorant idiots, and they'll be the next people at Virginia tech. Abortion isnt the reason, its a factor, and every factor that gets let by is something that adds up.
Good being subjective. To some life is as good as ever, why try to bring us down with you? Hardly fair.Morals are subjective, so because people are increasingly acting in a way that is not in accordance with YOUR morals, do not assume that is a universal situation. All your bases are subjective, therefore it's flawed from the very start.
Everything is subjective. All rules ever made were subjective and every idea ever created was subjective to a group of people. You talk about rights all the time--but the reason you have those rights is because someone in the government at some time had some SUBJECTIVE ideas and made them into legislature. If you want to think about it, there is no ultimate truth, nothing completely objective, because someone will always disagree. There are universal morals, shared by nearly every culture that follows any system of order.
Do you want to get onto how this proves in any way that abortion should be illegal? Abortion does not threaten future generations.
We didnt realize the reality of greenhouse gases until they are now effecting us long down the road from where the problem began. This is no different.
New things get accepted in this world all the time for better or worse, what do you expect our societies to do? Stop evolving?.
Abortion, simply, is a choice that every woman has the right to, and rightfully so.
Abortion will be abused, but that is not a problem with abortion, it's a problem with people. Would you ban cars because people drive drunk? Would you ban alcohol because people drive drunk? Or would you see that there are people who drink responsibly and drive responsibly, and therefore there is no need for a ban? Answer, please.
Thats true, it is a problem with the people, but every time you give a boy a gun -yes, which is a book, theres just one more risk waiting to happen. (Thats an analogy)
And in drunk driving, the alcohol is the problem, not the car, so there is really no relation. Abortion is the problem of abortion. The car is not the problem of drunk driving. And you said it already-you cant make people be responsible, so thats really not a viable course of action. You can however, take away the thing that makes the problem.
So you think we should stop abortion because;A) You simply do not like the fact that humans are allowed the choice.
and B) Because you have some wild prediction that it will lead us to "overtake ourselves"? Sorry, but I don't see anyone looking to ban abortion based on fearmongering and scare tactics that come from some idiotic prediction, especially considering the prediction makes no sense, has no basis, and is created solely for you to push your personal agenda.
A) Yep.
B) Personal agenda? That IS my agenda. The fact that so few people can actually realize the fact that there are no limits to what we do today and how it affects tommorow, is ignorance. Its something to prevent, not to allow to come. I dont know where you live in the world, but Ive seen many of the problems of the world, if only secondhandedly. The fuel of that comes from irresponsibility, and abortion is one of those irresponsible actions -a getaway car.
What happened to leaving religion out of this? Don't bring religion into an abortion debate, that's rule number 1.
No, it shows that people can have abortions if they feel like it. I don't like the fact that it's abused, but sacrifices have to be made in protecting what freedom we do have left. If we start banning things on whims to cater to every Sally and Sammy Sobstory, we will end up with no freedom, and everyone will be able to plead legitimate cases to ban anything.
Sacrafices of what, the goodness of people in general? Are we going to sacrafice the next generations for today's 'rights'? There is nothing worse to sacrafice than ethics in today's world.
And you feel this will come about because of abortion? You're a moron. More people are alive than have ever died. Figure that into your calculations.
And more people than ever think they have the rights to anything they want.
And you think that just because we have a greater medical system means we are free of barbaric thought? That is a grand illusion. We dont need spears to act like idiot animals. We arent so bad now, but what about how we will be in the future?
Well of course....better to ignore the future....that's not US anyways....
What is "right or wrong" is subjective. To me, you are wrong, and to allow your goals to be achieved is a genuine step to a worse world, because you're an oppressive idiot who has nothing better to do than live his life and just spout rhetoric, without care of what he is possibly doing to the people he is oppressing.
Oppressing? If you think not having the option of abortion at a whim is oppression, you've clearly not been around in the world.
I love that last part though, that's the icing.YOU have driven YOURSELF insane with your OWN ideas that YOU made up in YOUR HEAD, and these are reasons to ban abortion?
Here; in my head I see abortion continuing, and as a result, more freedom is allowed and our race is much better off. I like those outcomes.
Abortion helps relatively nobody except the idiots who put themselves in the situation. And I dont really see how things are much better off. I really dont.
Stupid isn't it? Yes, so are you.
-AC
See, lets just end it with some genuine adult maturity. You're a cruel person, you need to resharpen those morals. But wait- they're subjective, so it really doesnt matter anyways.
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Yes, well apparently your idea of debate involves calling people morons and vagina-weepers. That shows some real knowledge right there.No, actually theres a whole lot more to be said on the subject. You seem to think everything is taken for granted. Its there, so its our right to have it. Technically abortion research was originally funded, indirectly by the government or institutions it set up, therefore IT has some say in it, if no one else at least.
Why would I care about everyone else's affairs? Because its right, because what happens to one person and their choices will carry on to others. Because trends are set by bad example and when no one steps up to do anythign about it, things get worse. And because Im not going to sit around and watch the world fall apart piece by piece with every little science experiment that gets made. Abortion, likewise the irresponsibility along with, hurts people. Emotionally, and through carelessness, physically. Which sets the stage for further trouble in the future. If those peopel ever do decide to have children, they'll be total ignorant idiots, and they'll be the next people at Virginia tech. Abortion isnt the reason, its a factor, and every factor that gets let by is something that adds up.
Everything is subjective. All rules ever made were subjective and every idea ever created was subjective to a group of people. You talk about rights all the time--but the reason you have those rights is because someone in the government at some time had some SUBJECTIVE ideas and made them into legislature. If you want to think about it, there is no ultimate truth, nothing completely objective, because someone will always disagree. There are universal morals, shared by nearly every culture that follows any system of order.
Yes it does. Its societal poisoning. As it becomes acceptable, which it may eventually, then the entire definition of 'right' shifts one step to the left. Not only do future generations become more and more dependant upon it, they become used to the idea that such things are alright, that unreasoned risk is fine because there is a way out of it. It continues to spread from there into other areas. Eventually there is nothing more than a shell of that good old subjective morality and eventually its going to die. Maybe that takes fifty years, or hundreds, but it will become unavoidable, and at that point there's no telling how far downhill things will slide.
We didnt realize the reality of greenhouse gases until they are now effecting us long down the road from where the problem began. This is no different.
Actually, yes. There has been little limit on so called progress and expansion in every way over the past hundred years. Eventually, there will be greater problems to deal with down the road, and if a court system looks back to their days of abortion and realizes that all of that was let by, they might be thinking about genetically altered humans differnently then. Maybe that will become acceptable. Then something else, then something else. Chain reaction. There are a whole lot of things that have been done wrong in history that are irreversible now.
Abortion is where I draw the line.Why is it a right?
Going to go with the old Roe vs. Wade?Thats true, it is a problem with the people, but every time you give a boy a gun -yes, which is a book, theres just one more risk waiting to happen. (Thats an analogy)
And in drunk driving, the alcohol is the problem, not the car, so there is really no relation. Abortion is the problem of abortion. The car is not the problem of drunk driving. And you said it already-you cant make people be responsible, so thats really not a viable course of action. You can however, take away the thing that makes the problem.
A) Yep.
B) Personal agenda? That IS my agenda. The fact that so few people can actually realize the fact that there are no limits to what we do today and how it affects tommorow, is ignorance. Its something to prevent, not to allow to come. I dont know where you live in the world, but Ive seen many of the problems of the world, if only secondhandedly. The fuel of that comes from irresponsibility, and abortion is one of those irresponsible actions -a getaway car.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/432185_1-has-humanity-become-god Theres no religion about it. Its about reckless power. It was a somewhat popular thread once, but dont post there because its really old.
Dont tell me you're one of those people who claims we're getting our rights stripped. If you're from the United States, now would be a good time to stop with the 'rights' things, because you have no reason to be complaining. If you're not then I guess we may be on different pages.
Sacrafices of what, the goodness of people in general? Are we going to sacrafice the next generations for today's 'rights'? There is nothing worse to sacrafice than ethics in today's world.
And more people than ever think they have the rights to anything they want.
And you think that just because we have a greater medical system means we are free of barbaric thought? That is a grand illusion. We dont need spears to act like idiot animals. We arent so bad now, but what about how we will be in the future?
Well of course....better to ignore the future....that's not US anyways....
Oppressing? If you think not having the option of abortion at a whim is oppression, you've clearly not been around in the world.
Oh its nothign I made up. Its all very real. When you start abandoning those subjective morals and all -which are clearly meaningless because they are nothign to anyone else--you can see the path you're going down. Who cares about abortion? Its not my problem. Who cares about the way anyone else lives their lives? That's not my problem. Who cares if people kill eachother somewhere else? Thats not my problem. Who cares if everyone else kills eachother and Im the last one in the world? I would still be alive so everything would be okay, right? Its very scary to think about. Once you let one thing go, you have to let everything else go with it.
Allowing abortion isnt allowing freedom, its spreading foolishness.
Abortion helps relatively nobody except the idiots who put themselves in the situation. And I dont really see how things are much better off. I really dont.
See, lets just end it with some genuine adult maturity. You're a cruel person, you need to resharpen those morals. But wait- they're subjective, so it really doesnt matter anyways.
None of your business.
