Wally West vs Cosmic Thor

I mean, Wallace’s question why he suddenly feels drained couldn’t possibly have anything to do with Wally’s immediate answer that he combined Wallace’s and the other’s abilities with Johnny Quick’s formula.

Never mind the horde of Dark Multiversal superspeedsters using the Speedforce that somehow were utterly time-stopped when the only other time Wally used the formula, the superspeedster Max Mercury wasn’t utterly time-stopped. But I’m to blame for being the only poster who apparently knew what happened the first (and only other) time that Wally ever used it.

Yup, let’s just ignore both connotation and context here. For what reason? Phuck if I can tell. I’m surrounded by angry cabbages apparently.

Because he..... didn't stop time in Flash #91? He literally says in the same issue he doesn't.

So the writer makes a mistake. Happens all the time.

I mean, if you want to use context, just a few pages prior Wally explains that all the speedsteyare straining the SF with every step they take. The additional formula usage strains it further.

It just doesn't mean that he needs to both use their abilities and the formula to stop time. Using head canon that he needs to do so to stop the Dark Multiverse Flashes, is wrong because you're using the events of Flash #91 as your proof.

When we see that the writer himself got it wrong, as Wally never actually stopped time on Flash #91 and actually goes out of his way to say he didn't, yet in this comic he says he did.

Still, moot. If, as you assert, he did so to stop Dark Multiverse Speed Force users, then.....he doesn't need to do so to stop normies. People who don't use the SF, like Cosmic Thor.

So the answer to your original question, who is the toppest level guy he's stopped, remains -the Batmanhattan Who Laughs.

Match starts, he recites the formula at speed, Thor is time stopped.

Also, I may be a cabbage, but I am not angry.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because he..... didn't stop time in Flash #91? He literally says in the same issue he doesn't.

So the writer makes a mistake. Happens all the time.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I mean, if you want to use context, just a few pages prior Wally explains that all the speedsteyare straining the SF with every step they take. The additional formula usage strains it further.

It just doesn't mean that he needs to both use their abilities and the formula to stop time. Using head canon that he needs to do so to stop the Dark Multiverse Flashes, is wrong because you're using the events of Flash #91 as your proof.

When we see that the writer himself got it wrong, as Wally never actually stopped time on Flash #91 and actually goes out of his way to say he didn't, yet in this comic he says he did.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Still, moot. If, as you assert, he did so to stop Dark Multiverse Speed Force users, then.....he doesn't need to do so to stop normies. People who don't use the SF, like Cosmic Thor.

It’s not Cosmic Thor w/ Speedforce in this thread.

But neither is it Wally w/ Flash family conveniently by his side in this thread.

So when I ask who Wally has time-stopped on the level of Cosmic Thor and ya’ll declare he timestopped TBWL, what does that have to do with this matchup? Wally doesn’t have his Flash family here.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So the answer to your original question, who is the toppest level guy he's stopped, remains -the Batmanhattan Who Laughs.

Match starts, he recites the formula at speed, Thor is time stopped

Also, I may be a cabbage, but I am not angry.

The only other Johnny Quick formula timestop was a virtual timestop that had Wally going near light speed where he spent hours trying to figure out how to stop a helicopter from crashing. How that auto-wins against Cosmic Thor escapes my imagination.

I suppose you’re not angry. But you’re not exactly operating from a position of knowledge. I said it earlier, I don’t blame you for not reading that issue. But you should probably read Flash vol.2 #91 before continuing. Otherwise, you’re just being a cabbage absentmindedly.

So he didn't actually stop time in Flash #91? Huh. Fancy that.

Guess the writer made a mistake when he wrote Wally saying he stopped time.

And I know you were trying to have a trap - but nowhere does it say he needed both the formula and the Flash family to stop time. After all, as, as you say, he did it just fine in Flash #91 on his lonesome.

The only difference now is, when he did so against the Batmanhattan Who Laughs, the formula combined with the previous strain as said by Wally added additional strain.

But it doesn't say he needs both to stop time.

Wait, did ODG just claim there only exist two instances Wally used SFF( including the Death Metal one)?

Well that's what Wally said in Speed Metal, so yeah.

Way I see it:

An old guy has a dodgy heart. One day, he runs a marathon, which strains it. He then goes home to have sex with his 24 year old mistress, and the sex is incredible as he does his super secret double fisted reach under nipple twister (I don't know, I've never known the touch of a female). He's only ever done this once before.

This secret technique is so incredible, she has the greatest orgasm of her life. However, the guy also has a heart attack.

Why, doctor?

Well, the combination of the marathon and the sex placed an additional strain on his heart.

Now, let's look back. Did he NEED to run a marathon to give her that orgasm? Or was it the technique alone which finished her off?

The main question here is on his use of said technique, and whether he can replicate it with other women. Does he need a marathon every single time he wants to make a lady orgasm?

This has stopped being about the Flash, btw. Asking for a friend.

-DarkCabbage

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well that's what Wally said in Speed Metal, so yeah.

Way I see it:

An old guy has a dodgy heart. One day, he runs a marathon, which strains it. He then goes home to have sex with his 24 year old mistress, and the sex is incredible as he does his super secret double fisted reach under nipple twister (I don't know, I've never known the touch of a female). He's only ever done this once before.

This secret technique is so incredible, she has the greatest orgasm of her life. However, the guy also has a heart attack.

Why, doctor?

Well, the combination of the marathon and the sex placed an additional strain on his heart.

Now, let's look back. Did he NEED to run a marathon to give her that orgasm? Or was it the technique alone which finished her off?

The main question here is on his use of said technique, and whether he can replicate it with other women. Does he need a marathon every single time he wants to make a lady orgasm?

This has stopped being about the Flash, btw. Asking for a friend.

-DarkCabbage

https://ibb.co/9T2894y
https://ibb.co/dMYN6mN
https://ibb.co/jfjBkgv
https://ibb.co/6WhBt2X

My two cents are:

Possibility A: Willianson revised it to a new version, which has the capability to stop time instead of speeding up Flash(or could do both). So it is iffy to take past instances into consideration

Possibility B: Willianson mistook some scenes in past instances, however, there are at least two instances in past, which one is blatantly contradicting the description in his book as you pointed out, and the other Wally only used it very briefly( just say goodbye to Linda) which nothing alludes to other speedsters' activities in this scene

But no matter which possibility is true, it needs to use headcanon to make ODG's explanation true

And good analogy DS. This is one of reasons I can't leave this forum for good 😛

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So he didn't actually stop time in Flash #91? Huh. Fancy that.

Guess the writer made a mistake when he wrote Wally saying he stopped time.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And I know you were trying to have a trap - but nowhere does it say he needed both the formula and the Flash family to stop time. After all, as, as you say, he did it just fine in Flash #91 on his lonesome.

The only difference now is, when he did so against the Batmanhattan Who Laughs, the formula combined with the previous strain as said by Wally added additional strain.

But it doesn't say he needs both to stop time.

Don't assume your conclusion. Offer proof towards it. Or don't.

I never said he did need both just to effect a virtual timestop. But if he's going to effect a virtual timestop of other superspeedsters who utilize the Speedforce, then he better do something more than just speak Johnny Quick's formula. Because it didn't stop Max Mercury the first time.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Wait, did ODG just claim there only exist two instances Wally used SFF( including the Death Metal one)?

So either (a) Wally is an amnesiac dummy, or (b) Wally himself didn't consider his use of Johnny Quick's formula in Flash vol.2 #99 as a virtual timestop. The latter sort of makes sense because Wally didn't speak Johnny Quick's formula for the sole purpose of effecting a virtual timestop, he spoke it to have a single second to tell Linda good-bye and enter the Speedforce entirely. For me, the latter makes sense more than the former.

I choose to believe Wally is not an amnesiac dummy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Batmanhattan Who Laughs

f*cking DC

qwerty owning odg on the reg

Originally posted by ODG
Almost never? Yet... we're speaking about a comic character that has thousands of appearances and you cannot even cite to a single on-panel example supporting a result like defeating a Cosmic Thor-level foe with a million punches in a millisecond?

And, yet... the burden of proof is on me to prove otherwise?

This is what's called a negative proof fallacy.

I literally have nothing to argue against other than your imaginary (and unsupported) premise.

I find it increasingly ludicrous that when I try to bring the discussion closer to the comics themselves in these kind of debates... I am somehow the poster who is disregarding the comic character.

what gibberish are you spewing. i am asking logical question, if you think wally can hurt thor going all out, why wont he kill him? how fast do you think cosmic thor reaction is? (let's in fact see some feats from the dude who can't dodge a rock hitting him)

this is not a imaginary premise
this is a cis off full capacity battle, do you know what that mean?
it means thor raped wally's mother, so wally wanna go all out to kill thor kinda mindset, he's not gonna be in character giving thor a chance.

now unless wally is retarded, what do you think he's gonna do when battle start? and how fast do you think he's gonna act out his first attack?

Originally posted by MrMind
what gibberish are you spewing. i am asking logical question, if you think wally can hurt thor going all out, why wont he kill him? how fast do you think cosmic thor reaction is? (let's in fact see some feats from the dude who can't dodge a rock hitting him)

Originally posted by MrMind
this is not a imaginary premise
this is a cis off full capacity battle, do you know what that mean?
it means thor raped wally's mother, so wally wanna go all out to kill thor kinda mindset, he's not gonna be in character giving thor a chance.

Originally posted by MrMind
now unless wally is retarded, what do you think he's gonna do when battle start? and how fast do you think he's gonna act out his first attack?

Originally posted by ODG
Bruh, it's your own argument. You were the one who argued "if he can punch him once, he can punch him a million time in millisecond". If that's your position, then why wouldn't Wally defeat 1,000 Cosmic Thors within a single second? It's the premise you're advocating for. I'm following your lead, bruh. I think Wally would probably do something that he's done on-panel against an opponent on the level of Cosmic Thor. But per your argument, he punches Cosmic Thor a million time in millisecond. So if there were two, five, ten, dozens or hundreds more Cosmic Thors around, Wally would defeat them all in a single second or less? What comics is that based on again? Educate us.

what comic is any dc vs marvel hypothetical match up based on?

Originally posted by MrMind
what comic is any dc vs marvel hypothetical match up based on?

Originally posted by ODG
DC comics and Marvel comics.

right, different universe

so the baseline of versus standard should be fair to both companies no?

Originally posted by ODG
Haven't read the thread much but maybe a cogent question to ask/answer would be: who has Wally West speed-stolen from that is similar to (or above) the level of Cosmic Thor.

i think you are mistaking me for someone else

i simply think wally punches thor to death

^ I feel no need to push you further.

Originally posted by ODG
Bruh, if Wally accelerated himself to the point where it looks like the world is frozen around him, he effected a virtual timestop. Otherwise, Wally moving the Flash family so fast for a few minutes in Dark Nights: Death Metal Speed Metal #1 isn't a timestop for you either. Or are we going to act like either the author or Wally were outright lying? Nowhere? It just says right there that he "combined" both the formula and the Flash family's abilities. We're arguing what is meant by "combined". If you want to prove to me he did not combine them without relying on the butchering of English, go ahead. But I gave you on-panel evidence why he needed to.

Don't assume your conclusion. Offer proof towards it. Or don't.

I never said he did need both just to effect a virtual timestop. But if he's going to effect a virtual timestop of other superspeedsters who utilize the Speedforce, then he better do something more than just speak Johnny Quick's formula. Because it didn't stop Max Mercury the first time. I was taking the author's word from the pages of Dark Nights: Death Metal Speed Metal #1 itself. But clearly your scans from Flash vol.2 #99 cast doubt on such a notion.

So either [b](a) Wally is an amnesiac dummy, or (b) Wally himself didn't consider his use of Johnny Quick's formula in Flash vol.2 #99 as a virtual timestop. The latter sort of makes sense because Wally didn't speak Johnny Quick's formula for the sole purpose of effecting a virtual timestop, he spoke it to have a single second to tell Linda good-bye and enter the Speedforce entirely. For me, the latter makes sense more than the former.

I choose to believe Wally is not an amnesiac dummy. [/B]

Flash himself said it wasn't a timestop. Then later on says it is. So the writer made a mistake.

The combination was referring to the strain, not the actual time stop. See my analogy.

^ Flash himself also said it was a timestop. When you accelerate yourself so fast to the point where you casually walk around for hours while everything is virtually motionless, whether it was a genuine timestop or not is a distinction not worth a difference. So it's not a disingenuous description by either the writer or Wally. Either way, it's irrelevant to what Wally does on-panel during Dark Nights: Death Metal Speed Metal #1.

You're assuming your conclusion and doing so against proof to the negative. So the conversation has run its course. If you have some other instance to discuss where Wally has speed-stolen or timestopped from a foe similar to (or above) the level of Cosmic Thor, let me know.