Originally posted by Ambient
Don’t remember him affecting intangible beings ODG. None I can recall.
Best I can recall was when Faith was on the team, and he transmuted theoretical matter into marshmallows. It didn't quite exist in normal space, he had to sidestep the timestream or something. Been a while since I read it, maybe Galan has the scans
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Just perused a few issues of Crisis on Infinite Earths. They were weird. They did exhibit intangibility but it was really random. Like a GL blast would go right through them but then they'd get dropkicked by Solivar. Cyborg's white sound would be ineffective in one issue and then he'd utterly shatter them with white sound the next time.
Oh, AntiMonitors shadow demons. They're intangible.
I also was under the impression that they were made of anti-matter and that's why they burned anyone they touched. But if that were the case, then none of the heroes or villains fighting them could touch them. But a lot of physical contact occurred without burning.
I suppose the best explanation I can come up with is that they were shadows that were capable of consciously phasing and consciously burning those they touched.
My only conclusion is that their intangibility was a level far below Surfer's.
Originally posted by Astner
Are you going to enforce your claim with an argument or are you going to leave it at that?
Originally posted by Galan007
Anyone who still thinks Firestorm cannot transmute organic matter -- Please read:----------
When Jason merged Lorraine Reilly, [aka. Firehawk], to the FS-Matrix -- She wasn't exactly "willing" to do so:
[Just more proof that even the 'unwilling', can still be fused to the Matrix]. 😊
Jason was transmuting organic matter as a n00b, and iirc Ronnie did the same as recently as Doomsday Clock.
In more recent times, the issue was never really than Firestorm couldn't transmute organics... It's that Professor Stein was concerned that the process might be dangerous/lethal, so he never wanted the kids to meddle with it.
Originally posted by abhilegend
The second scan isn't relevant because it's not Firestorm using his powers to transmute matter, it's Jason transforming into firestorm through merger which is the standard process of his transformation.
Originally posted by Galan007
and iirc Ronnie did the same as recently as Doomsday Clock.In more recent times, the issue was never really than Firestorm couldn't transmute organics... It's that Professor Stein was concerned that the process might be dangerous/lethal, so he never wanted the kids to meddle with it.
Originally posted by Astner
Maximum capacity doesn't allow you to disregard established limitations of a character's power.- 52 #37.
Misreading (old) scans doesn't allow you to disregard established applications of his power.
That scan only says he can transmute inorganic material. It does not say he can *only* transmute inorganic material.
Moreover:
Bullets into roses:
https://i.imgur.com/d0VG3ka.jpg
Eiffel Tower into roses:
https://i.imgur.com/JvG0jq8.jpg
Grass into a carpet:
https://i.imgur.com/cNHXKNM.jpg
All organic matter.
Ronnie could do it too.
Gun into salami (organic):
https://imgur.com/a/2ev1Pmk
Paper into a flower:
https://imgur.com/a/g7u5OuK
A gun into a pickle:
https://imgur.com/a/PRdhXnS
A lamppost into hay:
https://imgur.com/a/VXo3Wdj
A truck into.....a wooden? ramp:
https://imgur.com/a/wQGG8QS
A lot of those are old-ass scans (older than Carv's grandma, as he would say). Here's Jason curing Killer Frost of a terminal disease by transmuting her disease-ridden cells:
https://imgur.com/a/vXqu1Uj
Then reversing it in battle:
https://imgur.com/a/etSlEdB
And guns into peanut butter (and he explicitly says he's still shaky with transmuting organics - this was when (as Galan said) he was still a noob:
https://imgur.com/a/oYumV97
Originally posted by Astner
Rather than having these claims fall back on IIRC😖 could you source them or at the very least redirect us to the relevant issues?
Philo posted it a few pages ago though.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I wouldn't call it reality warping, it's more similar to magic from certain points of view. It's simply matter of willing something to happen [i.e. I will this to turn into this] and having the power [i.e. energy-level/power-level] to implement it, no matter how complex.Firestorm has recreated a person from glass by using matter manipulation and wanting it really hard:
Poof. Magic.
Where something like cosmic awareness helps is in, for example, receiving the knowledge regarding the problem/issue at hand, and then you just will it into existence using matter manipulation. Its usefulness in matches like this is dubious [and also needs to be feat-based], but it's a cool thing to have for general comic book-y situations.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Misreading (old) scans doesn't allow you to disregard established applications of his power.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That scan only says he can transmute inorganic material. It does not say he can *only* transmute inorganic material.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Moreover:
Bullets into roses:
https://i.imgur.com/d0VG3ka.jpgEiffel Tower into roses:
https://i.imgur.com/JvG0jq8.jpgGrass into a carpet:
https://i.imgur.com/cNHXKNM.jpgAll organic matter.
Ronnie could do it too.
Gun into salami (organic):
https://imgur.com/a/2ev1PmkPaper into a flower:
https://imgur.com/a/g7u5OuKA gun into a pickle:
https://imgur.com/a/PRdhXnSA lamppost into hay:
https://imgur.com/a/VXo3WdjA truck into.....a wooden? ramp:
https://imgur.com/a/wQGG8QSA lot of those are old-ass scans (older than Carv's grandma, as he would say). Here's Jason curing Killer Frost of a terminal disease by transmuting her disease-ridden cells:
https://imgur.com/a/vXqu1UjThen reversing it in battle:
https://imgur.com/a/etSlEdBAnd guns into peanut butter (and he explicitly says he's still shaky with transmuting organics - this was when (as Galan said) he was still a noob:
https://imgur.com/a/oYumV97
But fair enough, I'll grant you that Firestorm can transmute organinc matter too.
But this doesn't overcome the massive discrepancy of scale between the powers of Firestorm and the Silver Surfer, let alone the versatility. Silver Surfer is capable destroying planets and generating black holes, not to mention time travel and phase through walls.
Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Interesting point, our reality is made of matter and energy. In itself matter manipulation by definition is reality manipulation.
Molecule Man couldn't manipulate organic matter until the Beyonder lifted that limitation. I'm not sure if it's still canon, but it was the case during Secret Wars II.
