Originally posted by Stoicbut you just... haven't established that.
That Shazam is not Hyperions weakness. He can hurt Hyperion just like he can hurt any of the other characters that he has faced. Hyperion can also hurt him.
Character A has a magic weakness
Character B is Very Magic
Character C is Kinda Magic
B would wreck A. C could hit B.
Therefore C has no advantage over A???
I think Stoic probably thought about the magic weakness is like this, at least, the "magic does what magic does. It's a vulnerability, not an allergy" part
But even then, it still would mean magic holds advantage over Hyperion, because.....well, he is still vulnerable to it
Originally posted by Smurph
but you just... haven't established that.Character A has a magic weakness
Character B is Very Magic
Character C is Kinda MagicB would wreck A. C could hit B.
Therefore C has no advantage over A???
Show me the time that Hyperion was annihilated by a magical creature. Just one time. The reason for this lack is because he has yet to meet an extra-planar, magical construct, or blatantly hit by a magical bolt.
The same can be said of Superman. Superman faced magical creatures very similar to Sym, and if he had been locked in an inescapable dungeon with these magical creatures, they would have eventually killed him. Who do you think would win in a fight between Doomsday and Shazam? Who do to you believe would win in a fight between Doomsday and Sym? Doomsday only has to fall once. Which one of these guys could do it? I know for certain that Sym would kill Doomsday. Shazam? Can you say the same for Shazam?
Billy would fight Hyperion just like he’s fought anyone else, or are we going to jump to the conclusion that one punch from Shazam would likely cause Hyperion to break out in hives? Can we claim that when Hyperion is around magical items that he begins to feel weak? Does he shit his pant? Break out into bumps that begin bleeding?
How far are we taking this? The sky’s the limit it would seem.
Originally posted by Stoic
Show me the time that Hyperion was annihilated by a magical creature. Just one time. The reason for this lack is because he has yet to meet an extra-planar, magical construct, or blatantly hit by a magical bolt.The same can be said of Superman. Superman faced magical creatures very similar to Sym, and if he had been locked in an inescapable dungeon with these magical creatures, they would have eventually killed him. Who do you think would win in a fight between Doomsday and Shazam? Who do to you believe would win in a fight between Doomsday and Sym? Doomsday only has to fall once. Which one of these guys could do it? I know for certain that Sym would kill Doomsday. Shazam? Can you say the same for Shazam?
Billy would fight Hyperion just like he’s fought anyone else, or are we going to jump to the conclusion that one punch from Shazam would likely cause Hyperion to break out in hives? Can we claim that when Hyperion is around magical items that he begins to feel weak? Does he shit his pant? Break out into bumps that begin bleeding?
How far are we taking this? The sky’s the limit it would seem.
Actually the reason is because he's never faced magic of any kind, period. Says so in the scan.
Same guy different timeline. We don’t treat Hyperion as if he has a magical allergy if they have yet to show him wilting while around guys like Doctor Strange. Have you ever seen this happen to him? No, Billy isn’t going to enter the field of battle and suddenly Hyperion begins feeling sick due to his magical presence. The quote was simply there to show that he had limitations.
Shazam is not going to hit Hyperion harder than Gladiator hits Hyperion, however, if Billy hits him with magic that would not normally burn his skin, he will sustain burns. This does not actually reduce his toughness, he takes it but it hurts like hell.
Hyperion is likely going to allows Shazam to keep doing that though. Hyperion knows all about his speed limitations within an atmosphere as well.
Dragging the fight out into space isn’t beneath him.
Whoever wins, it will be tough.
Scan literally says he's never fought anyone magical before.
Different guy, though. They don't get to share feats. Bruce doesn't get Batman who Laughs' feats etc
Why does he need to hit him with magical lightning? His magical fists are enough, or are you saying he won't get hit at all by Billy?
I also find it interesting you're not giving Billy any cosmic awareness type feats i.e. analogous) like you do Surfer, nor are you giving him spellcasting feats like you do Thor
Hyperion is Hyperion, some are stronger than others. Magic will hurt all of them, as none are immune to it. Billy does not punch holes in the guys that he normally fights, and we should not expect more than that here. You aren’t having a difficult time understanding this, you just want to be slimy about it. Too hard to admit error? Tough.
Originally posted by Stoic
Hyperion is Hyperion, some are stronger than others. Magic will hurt all of them, as none are immune to it. Billy does not punch holes in the guys that he normally fights, and we should not expect more than that here. You aren’t having a difficult time understanding this, you just want to be slimy about it. Too hard to admit error? Tough.
Nope, they don't share feats. Batman does not get Batman who Laughs'feats, any more than Red Son Superman gets Earth 1 Superman's feats.
Hyperion doesn't get to share feats across the different versions.
I am just finding your hypocrisy interesting. Billy has the Wisdom of Solomon which enables him to know his opponent's weaknesses like Surfer used his cosmic awareness to find Gladiator's - yet you don't think it a factor (or maybe you just didn't know of it).
He knows magical spells and has used them in battle. Yet, whilst you give this spellcasting ability to Thor (one of the most famous brawlers in comics), you don't to Billy.
Very interesting. Seems you're all about the arguments when it suits you
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998Yes ok, thank you, this makes the theory much clearer.
I think Stoic probably thought about the magic weakness is like this, at least, the "magic does what magic does. It's a vulnerability, not an allergy" partBut even then, it still would mean magic holds advantage over Hyperion, because.....well, he is still vulnerable to it
But, sans feats (gesturing at the points Darksaint made, above), it's just a theory. The difference between a writer explaining their PoV and a poster asserting how magic works should be obvious.
Mongul is vulnerable to magic, Superman is vulnerable to magic, Thor has resistance to magic, but not complete immunity, Lobo is vulnerable to magic. This doesn’t mean that Shazam is going to be handing out one shots to these characters. The reason for this is because of the amount of abuse that the individual character can take. Simply put, it’s a matter of how robust their constitution is. Hyperion is a pretty tough character, and selling him as some glass canon is filled with both contradictions, and ignores what Shazam’s fists have done to non magical characters in the past.
Hyperion does not have a magic allergy, he is simply vulnerable to it. Hyperion is as vulnerable to Billy’s magical fists, and Billy is vulnerable to Hyperion’s non magical fists.
This will come down to who can remain standing at the end, which will have a load to do with their combat skills.
Originally posted by Smurph
Great headcanon.Feel free to back it up with evidence.
Lobo is a non magical character. Are we in agreement? He has battled Shazam to a standstill.
Superman in not a magical character, he is vulnerable to magic just like Hyperion. He’s beaten Shazam I’m a fist fight.
Why didn’t they have a difficult time getting back up after being hit by him.
It really isn’t up to me to prove the opposite, as there is actual evidence in the fights that I mentioned alone that supports Hyperion not wilting from a punch from Shazam.
Your reluctance to see it is on you my guy.
Originally posted by StoicLobo vs Shazam proves nothing about Hyperion's vulnerability to magic. Superman vs Shazam proves nothing about Hyperion's vulnerability to magic.
Lobo is a non magical character. Are we in agreement? He has battled Shazam to a standstill.Superman in not a magical character, he is vulnerable to magic just like Hyperion. He’s beaten Shazam I’m a fist fight.
Why didn’t they have a difficult time getting back up after being hit by him.
It really isn’t up to me to prove the opposite, as there is actual evidence in the fights that I mentioned alone that supports Hyperion not wilting from a punch from Shazam.
Your reluctance to see it is on you my guy.
... obviously.
Originally posted by Smurph
Lobo vs Shazam proves nothing about Hyperion's vulnerability to magic. Superman vs Shazam proves nothing about Hyperion's vulnerability to magic.... obviously.
Then show a time when Hyperion was around magic that he dropped to his knees screaming in pain. Hyperion is weak to Argonite, while vulnerable to magic.