Originally posted by Smurph
^ so you read this scan and conclude that Hyperion does not have a particular weakness to magic?
That could have been the Surfer as well though, or it could have been Blue Marvel, Wolverine, Colossus, Lobo, Superman, Wonder Man, etc. That scene is clearly different than what happens in fights with Shazam.
Originally posted by Smurph
^ so you read this scan and conclude that Hyperion does not have a particular weakness to magic?
Listen, I understand exactly what it is that you are conveying, but what I am conveying isn’t far fetched or too far left from the right. He will be able to cut Hyperion whereas others would have to work for it, but we can’t discount Hyperion’s strength, which is how it would be written in a story, based upon Shazam’s fights against characters that are vulnerable to magic as well. He didn’t exactly punch holes in them, or outright destroy non magical opponents as easily as he dispatches magical ones.
Can you dig it?
What I found to be particularly interesting was Shazam’s power over magical creatures, and how dramatic his control effects were upon those types of beings. Superman was unable to put them down during Superman/Shazam First Thunder, just as an example.
He doesn’t have anywhere near that amount of power on non magical creatures, because if he did, he would have destroyed Lobo as easily as he was able to destroy the magical creatures in the issue that I referred to.
Either way, I know for a fact that Hyperion’s weakness is Argonite, just as we know that he is vulnerable to magic. I can accept it if I may have not been able to see other possibilities, but unless we are assuming that being punched by Shazam will make his powers cease to work, I envisioned a battle that two guys that enter are both leaving with lumps.
Don’t care who wins, just wondering why the vulnerable to magic shit didn’t work any other way than it did, should give us an idea of how it would work on another character that is also vulnerable to magic.
How far are we taking it? Everyone apparently agrees with it being the Sky as the limit. Based upon what exactly? Gladiator is vulnerable to magic, as is Zod, and a bunch of other guys.
Originally posted by Stoici mean...
That could have been the Surfer as well though, or it could have been Blue Marvel, Wolverine, Colossus, Lobo, Superman, Wonder Man, etc. That scene is clearly different than what happens in fights with Shazam.
being generous, your argument is: yes, Hyperion has a vulnerability to magic, but who doesn't? plus, Shazam never got the upper hand on an opponent just because the opponent was vulnerable to magic.
... and the problem is simply burden of proof.
We know that the version of Hyperion in this thread is particularly vulnerable to magic. Arguing about Sym or Lobo or Superman is like arguing that Ghost Rider's fire didn't work on Venom so it won't work on Martian Manhunter because, gee, they're both vulnerable to fire.
You refer to a character utterly irrelevant to the discussion, say something about that character, and act like you've proven something about the discussion. Just a sort of zany reverse-strawman.
Originally posted by Smurph
i mean...being generous, your argument is: yes, Hyperion has a vulnerability to magic, but who doesn't? plus, Shazam never got the upper hand on an opponent just because the opponent was vulnerable to magic.
... and the problem is simply burden of proof.
We know that the version of Hyperion in this thread is particularly vulnerable to magic. Arguing about Sym or Lobo or Superman is like arguing that Ghost Rider's fire didn't work on Venom so it won't work on Martian Manhunter because, gee, they're both vulnerable to fire.
You refer to a character utterly irrelevant to the discussion, say something about that character, and act like you've proven something about the discussion. Just a sort of zany reverse-strawman.
To what degree? You have every right to take that statement to infinity and beyond. I can accept that. I chose looking at it based upon actual historical evidence, and citations as examples. Most characters can have their powers nullified while inside of some anti power magic zone.
I just wanted to make sure that you understood my reasoning.
Depends on how far you want to take it.
Originally posted by Smurph
^ so you read this scan and conclude that Hyperion does not have a particular weakness to magic?
Strange that in the same comic,, Blur and Thundra, two non magically based characters, weren't depowered, just Hyperion. Who Dr Druid specifically mentions.
Curious how this means that Hyperion isn't a special case.
Originally posted by Smurph
i mean...being generous, your argument is: yes, Hyperion has a vulnerability to magic, but who doesn't? plus, Shazam never got the upper hand on an opponent just because the opponent was vulnerable to magic.
... and the problem is simply burden of proof.
We know that the version of Hyperion in this thread is particularly vulnerable to magic. Arguing about Sym or Lobo or Superman is like arguing that Ghost Rider's fire didn't work on Venom so it won't work on Martian Manhunter because, gee, they're both vulnerable to fire.
You refer to a character utterly irrelevant to the discussion, say something about that character, and act like you've proven something about the discussion. Just a sort of zany reverse-strawman.
Actually guy, you’re feigned ignorance has taken me by storm. I gave clear reasons that were unable to cut through your level of ignorance. I’ve said all that I will say on the subject, and backed it up with clear evidence. You have what? A statement? When we see Hyperion get mauled by a guy like Shazam who does not typically affect non magical beings in the way that you’re clearly pushing for, then and only then will you have a keg to stand on in terms of any solid proof.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Strange that in the same comic,, Blur and Thundra, two non magically based characters, weren't depowered, just Hyperion. Who Dr Druid specifically mentions.Curious how this means that Hyperion isn't a special case.
So what do you suspect will happen? Will Shazam punching Hyperion turn his powers off? Yes or No? We will leave it at that.
Originally posted by Stoic
Actually guy, you’re feigned ignorance has taken me by storm. I gave clear reasons that were unable to cut through your level of ignorance. I’ve said all that I will say on the subject, and backed it up with clear evidence. You have what? A statement? When we see Hyperion get mauled by a guy like Shazam who does not typically affect non magical beings in the way that you’re clearly pushing for, then and only then will you have a keg to stand on in terms of any solid proof.
Along with BA, Billy one shot Superboy Prime, a guy who is SPECIFICALLY resistant and immune to magic, with a lightning bolt.
So if he can do that to a guy who is IMMUNE to magic.....
Originally posted by Stoic
So what do you suspect will happen? Will Shazam punching Hyperion turn his powers off? Yes or No? We will leave it at that.
Such a strawman. No one said that Billy would turn his powers off by standing there, or with his punches. This is a horrible strawman
Now, had you said that we were arguing Billy stood back and used spells to depower Hyperion, then you might have a keg to stand on. A tenuous keg, to be sure, but better than.... whatever you just posted.
No proof on other side. Yep he’s vulnerable to magic, not allergic to it, unless it was stated. Also it would be great seeing Shazam one shot a character as powerful as Hyperion, I’d have no problem with the conclusion that many have kept to, except for the fact that the closest character to Hyperion that fought a walking magical tank was King Hyperion, who should have the exact same vulnerability to magic that Marcus has. When King Hyperion fought the Juggernaut, Cain was able to hurt him, and that is what I think is the most likely to occur in a battle with Shazam.
Win or lose, there is actual evidence that supports the things that I suggested, so it is plausible. The idea that he’d be one shot by Shazam seems to be a reach to me. We have never witnessed a character as strong and powerful as Hyperion get one shot by Shazam with literal examples.
Every Hyperion in every time line is vulnerable to magic. They are all weak to Argonite. Clear difference in words. Weak to Argonite, vulnerable to magic. We were given an instance on panel that had the Juggernaut, a magical walking tank battle it out with King Hyperion who is also vulnerable to magic. Was Cain the wrong kind of magic? He did hurt King Hype, so the magical part is legit. Determining how severe the attack would be in Shazam’s case is riddled with speculation.
On one side, I’ve never seen him one shot a character as powerful as Hyperion, and on the other I’ve never seen Hyperion Battle a flying magical tank like Shazam, but had a glimpse at King Hype’s reaction to the Juggernaut.
I did not see any kind of allergic reaction. When you do a search on Hyperion’s weakness it plainly states that it is Argonite, so it’s no wonder that King Hyperion (who is also vulnerable to magic) did not break out into hives, or scream in pain like the Adversary did after being hit with iron.
When Hyperion is around Doctor Strange he doesn’t exhibit any signs, or debilitating effects from being in the presence of items of power. If ever there is a time that he is affected, most of the time whoever is with him is as well, except in this one case.
The case being used can not be ignored, but it is entirely different than the effect that Shazam may have on Hyperion. Gee that’s a lot like throwing a guy in jail while lacking the evidence to place him there. Happened a lot in history.
Cain being magical remains to be the one time that a Hyperion ever fought a magical character, and there are the Squadron Supreme’s Hyperion vs Thor.
Evidence is what is lacking on both sides of the coin. But, let’s not forget what Hyperion’s weakness is. Magic isn’t it.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Along with BA, Billy one shot Superboy Prime, a guy who is SPECIFICALLY resistant and immune to magic, with a lightning bolt.So if he can do that to a guy who is IMMUNE to magic.....
If he can do that to a guy that is immune to magic, it wasn’t magic that kicked his ass.