How Woke is too Woke?
A bunch of liberals here, mostly all. Is there anything about our new woke culture that just seems over the top?
I've got a few, but I'll start with apparently anyone can interrupt any meeting at any time to do a "land acknowledgment" and everyone just has to go along with it. It's just like growing up in church, anyone can interrupt anything to ask to pray... Some things we do now are very much liberal church. What bothers you?
I'd say I'm a woke liberal voter who is just starting to think that a few things we are subscribing to are too much. There is very much an all or nothing opinion about liberal platforms right now. Cancel culture (started by conservatives in the 80s and 90s with their boycotts) is very much a thing, and not a great thing. As a liberal, I think we need to pump the brakes a little on a few platforms. So I guess my question is: as liberals, are there any liberal positions you think are too much?
Originally posted by truejediGiving any kind of power to stupid fat women.
I'd say I'm a woke liberal voter who is just starting to think that a few things we are subscribing to are too much. There is very much an all or nothing opinion about liberal platforms right now. Cancel culture (started by conservatives in the 80s and 90s with their boycotts) is very much a thing, and not a great thing. As a liberal, I think we need to pump the brakes a little on a few platforms. So I guess my question is: as liberals, are there any liberal positions you think are too much?
Originally posted by truejedi
I don't disagree with that, but that isn't the point. It isn't an all or nothing thing, and that's how it is being treated right now.
I mostly disagree. Woke was twisted and made into a dirty word by the Right. It's also largely not what people think it is.
Like Critical Race Theory, the Right literally twisted that into some nonsense monster and applied it to the Left, claiming it was being taught to kindergartners and that it meant "White people bad". Both lies.
But in the spirit of your thread, I find the refer to me as "they/them" to be silly. I'm fine if someone does not want to identify as a he/him or she/her, but you're not two people. Maybe "other" is a better choice. I'll still call someone "them/they" if they wish, cost me nothing, but I reserve the right to think it's silly.
Originally posted by Robtard
I mostly disagree. Woke was twisted and made into a dirty word by the Right. It's also largely not what people think it is.Like Critical Race Theory, the Right literally twisted that into some nonsense monster and applied it to the Left, claiming it was being taught to kindergartners and that it meant "White people bad". Both lies.
But in the spirit of your thread, I find the refer to me as "they/them" to be silly. I'm fine if someone does not want to identify as a he/him or she/her, but you're not two people. Maybe "other" is a better choice. I'll still call someone "them/they" if they wish, cost me nothing, but I reserve the right to think it's silly.
The truth is, "woke" is just about pandering. Doesn't matter what the ideology actually is, what matters is how all the media pundits, politicians, and pressure groups spin things.
Take the Will Smith slapping Chris Rock thing? Why do you think they didn't have security escort him out for it?
Because they were in a "sell to target audience" mindset, that's why.
Originally posted by cdtm
The truth is, "woke" is just about pandering. Doesn't matter what the ideology actually is, what matters is how all the media pundits, politicians, and pressure groups spin things.Take the Will Smith slapping Chris Rock thing? Why do you think they didn't have security escort him out for it?
Because they were in a "sell to target audience" mindset, that's why.
Wrong. Maybe what you think "woke" means here, but reality and you often don't play in the same sand box.
Reality: "Woke - aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)"
Like acknowledging that this country still has an issue with systemic racism. eg where a Black person is more likely to get a harsher sentence than a White people for the same crime. Especially a Black man.
So I think land acknowledgements are silly. That's pretty much what sparked this thread.
My two cents on pronouns: I don't think they/them is silly, but I did hear someone say the other day that "at this point, I know people who are getting my pronouns wrong at this point don't care about gender inequality*. And that frustrated me a bit, because I'm only going to know someone's pronouns if I actually care about them. It's just an extra piece of information to remember about someone when there are plenty of people out there who I'm lucky to remember their names, if that makes sense...
It isn't that I don't care about gender inequality, I just don't care about YOU enough to care how you identify, if that makes sense. There are plenty of people I interact with everyday that I don't know well enough to care about what they identify as. I don't need to know and don't care one way or another. But by insisting on proper pronoun usage from people who are essentially strangers-- I just don't get it. I'm careful and happy to use proper pronouns with my friends, but as far as daily acquaintances that I don't know, and don't care to know, it seems like pronouns shouldn't come up. I hope I've explained that well. I don't know anything about you, why are pronouns important at that point? I've had people whose name I don't even remember correct me on pronouns... Like if I don't care enough to remember your name, why should I remember your pronouns? I'm always going to try, I'm not using incorrect pronouns on purpose, ever, but chances are if I get it wrong, it simply doesn't matter to me how you identify, so it never crosses my mind, I guess.
Originally posted by Robtard
Wrong. Maybe what you think "woke" means here, but reality and you often don't play in the same sand box.Reality: "Woke - aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)"
Like acknowledging that this country still has an issue with systemic racism. eg where a Black person is more likely to get a harsher sentence than a White people for the same crime. Especially a Black man.
I'd say CRT is an example of not being too Woke. As I said, I'm liberal, I agree with all the things liberals agree with- I just think in just some cases we are starting to go to far, and we are making it impossible for honest discussion because of a very heavy handed "agree with everything, or be considered part of the problem."
Also I don't consider woke a dirty word, and consider myself woke and proud of it. I just think we need some introspection into some things.
People who takes jokes seriously. This goes both ways.
Examples. People who thought Ricky Gervais' hosting of the Emmys was serious.
People who got offended at Issac Butterfield's joke about Christchurch
People who think Count Dankula should've been prosecuted.
People who now think Count Dankula is someone whose opinion matters because he got prosecuted for his shitty joke.
Originally posted by truejedi
My two cents on pronouns: I don't think they/them is silly, but I did hear someone say the other day that "at this point, I know people who are getting my pronouns wrong at this point don't care about gender inequality*. And that frustrated me a bit, because I'm only going to know someone's pronouns if I actually care about them. It's just an extra piece of information to remember about someone when there are plenty of people out there who I'm lucky to remember their names, if that makes sense...It isn't that I don't care about gender inequality, I just don't care about YOU enough to care how you identify, if that makes sense. There are plenty of people I interact with everyday that I don't know well enough to care about what they identify as. I don't need to know and don't care one way or another. But by insisting on proper pronoun usage from people who are essentially strangers-- I just don't get it. I'm careful and happy to use proper pronouns with my friends, but as far as daily acquaintances that I don't know, and don't care to know, it seems like pronouns shouldn't come up. I hope I've explained that well. I don't know anything about you, why are pronouns important at that point? I've had people whose name I don't even remember correct me on pronouns... Like if I don't care enough to remember your name, why should I remember your pronouns? I'm always going to try, I'm not using incorrect pronouns on purpose, ever, but chances are if I get it wrong, it simply doesn't matter to me how you identify, so it never crosses my mind, I guess.
Despite the diligent efforts of some, I do not think asking or offering pronouns as a matter of course is going to catch on.
The vast majority of people, including binary transgender people, want to be gendered according to their expression, and do not feel the need to clarify their pronouns.
This issue is really only important to a tiny number of people whose gender is not immediately apparent from their appearance; primarily non-binary people, a population so tiny, that most people will never meet someone who is non-binary.
What I think will happen is that the onus will shift to the outliers to declare their pronouns upon meeting someone, which is where it should be.
If you do not use male or female pronouns, and you wish to be gendered correctly, then you have the responsibility to share your pronouns with others.
The rest of us do not need to declare our pronouns as a matter of course just to make you feel better about being different, which you are.
Originally posted by truejedi
What do you mean by this?