Originally posted by ODGYeah, you're right, an argument could be made.
Long story short, you give them simple pistols, Quicksilver wins a quick draw contest because he can twitch his finger faster. But you gave them thought-based weapons. An argument could be made that Xavier wins a quick draw contest because he has feats of "thinking" faster.
Are you making it though? Because I still feel like some of the dots don't quite connect.
Originally posted by ODGThis is the part that I don't think is proven.
^ Quicksilver can think faster via physical acceleration.Xavier can think faster via comic telepathy schmuckery.
GL rings are activated by thought.
This is a GL ring quickdraw contest.
Tis elementary my dear Watson.
Do we have any feats of Xavier just plainly outreacting speedsters?
Originally posted by carver9
I think the problem is, people are comparing telepaths thoughts to you standard human when that isn't the case.
Carver and Smurph actually nail it on the (telepath's) head, here.
We're not just saying speedsters, actually - does X have feats that prove his thoughts are faster than even say, a character like Captain America (who sees bullets in slow motion)?
And if yes, what are these feats?
does X have feats that prove his thoughts are faster than even say, a character like Captain America
really? lol x's thoughts cross GALAXIES instantly. but WE have to prove HIS thoughts are faster than cap's? c'mon.... how about you prove cap's thoughts are fast enough to cross a galaxy....this is turning into an i don't like it it didn't happen situation. all along i've said tp's have the wealth of proof on their side. it's never been anyting more difficult than that. not sure why you have such a hard time accepting it. this thread hasn't changed anything.
I can shout across a field faster than any human alive or dead can ever run. My thought process isn't the fastest of all humans, ever.
Nightcrawler can teleport across 5 miles faster than, say, Cap can run. Or Cassandra Cain, or Spider-Man etc, can move.
He's not faster than any of them in thought speed. Or is he? As he visualises a destination and ports there. If you want to argue he uses another dimension, replace him with any other teleporter who doesn't.
I also have a wealth of proof showing Nightcrawler teleporting...
Originally posted by leonidasOk
all along i've said tp's have the wealth of proof on their side.
So do we have any feats of Xavier just plainly outreacting speedsters? Or (to DS' point) skilled streets?
When it comes down to reaction feats, I don't think the wealth of proof is on Xavier's side... but maybe I'm wrong? If his reflexes actually are ftl then surely he wins every quickdraw, since his powers manifest at the speed of his ftl thoughts.
Originally posted by Smurph
OkSo do we have any feats of Xavier just plainly outreacting speedsters? Or (to DS' point) skilled streets?
When it comes down to reaction feats, I don't think the wealth of proof is on Xavier's side... but maybe I'm wrong? If his reflexes actually are ftl then surely he wins every quickdraw, since his powers manifest at the speed of his ftl thoughts.
this is where ds appears very confused. this isn't about out reacting in a typical QuickDraw where a PHYSICAL ACTION is involved. this started out because ds didn't like that I said in a very specific type of QuickDraw scenario i'd favour a tp over a non-tp. the specific type of QuickDraw? a QuickDraw solely dependent on thought activated powers. no physical actions (you know, like teleporting....) ie-could sue activate and use her powers faster or as fast as xavier. or Nate. or jonn or Emma or.... and no. I absolutely don't think so.
in a QuickDraw scenario where the only deciding factor is speed of thought, i'll favour a tp user almost every time over a non tp user. why? because they have tons of support that their powers allow them to think differently and faster. why? comic books. but the wealth of proof is there to support it. hence, my opinion. could mags activate a shield before Xavier could command him to sleep? i'll take Xavier. these contrived scenarios are meaningless.
we've SEEN characters who are non tp users actively capable of speeding up their thoughts. superman and flash most notably. can quicksilver? maybe? possibly? but I'd need to see proof. cap? sue? mags? they don't have anything to support this idea. that's why I said WAY early on speedsters could be different--if they have support. but others? in this very specific scenario? i'll take a tp user. funny--you and I won a tourney based primarily on this idea. you convinced the judges but not yourself. lol
anyway, ds started last week with the same question he just asked, so circle complete. it's a simple matter of proof. superman and flash have the proof. if sue does, or any other non tp user does, feel free to share the scans. if not, i'll stick with a my original opinion. where the speed of thought is clearly evidenced. it really isn't more complicated than that.
lol, you're missing two pages in the middle there, Carver
Two pages in which Quicksilver murders Okoye (I think...) and then Johnny Storm, before the second that it takes Jean Grey to reach inside his mind and shut him down. Hence the text box in the bottom right of your scan: "But so much damage had already been done..."
Anyways, Carver's non-canon scans elegantly demonstrate the issue 👆
Even when Jean had a warning that there was something in Quicksilver's mind, and they had the pre-cog warning from Spider-Man, it still took longer for her to think "sleep" than for Quicksilver to murder two people and take a run at a third
In other words, it's all well and good to go on about TP thought speed, but unless there are actual reflex feats, it's like comparing flight speed to fight speed.
Originally posted by leonidasQuicksilver's legs are thought activated. He had something in his mind compelling him to murder, as Jean sensed - ergo, his "thoughts" were activating his powers. The problem was that her reflexes to think "sleep" were slower than his.
except in this very particular case we ARE comparing fight speed to fight speed. or rather thought activated power to thought activated power.
This thread is no different.
Originally posted by Smurph
Quicksilver's legs are thought activated. He had something in his mind compelling him to murder, as Jean sensed - ergo, his "thoughts" were activating his powers. The problem was that her reflexes to think "sleep" were slower than his.This thread is no different.
i've already allowed for the chance that speedsters are different. if someone says qs wins, it really doesn't matter to me. :/
Originally posted by ODGI've been responding to this, which you gave the thumbs up /shrug
Long story short, you give them simple pistols, Quicksilver wins a quick draw contest because he can twitch his finger faster. But you gave them thought-based weapons. An argument could be made that Xavier wins a quick draw contest because he has feats of "thinking" faster.
This thread has Hulk, Wolverine, Professor X and QS. I already gave my ranking as:
Originally posted by Smurph
HmmmQuicksilver
Wolverine
Prof X
Hulk
The reflexes issue is the reason why. So to answer your question re: X and Sue, it would come down to reflex feats.
As it should for.....any character.
Sans feats, they don't get special dispensation just because of their status .
I have QS as the fastest, based on feats, not because he is a speedster. Logan as second, based on feats, not because he is Canadian. Hulk as third, because I love carver.
And X last, because....I don't know any reflex feats from him.