Hulk vs Wolverine vs Professor X vs Quicksilver!

Originally posted by Smurph
I've been responding to this, which you gave the thumbs up /shrug

This thread has Hulk, Wolverine, Professor X and QS. I already gave my ranking as:

The reflexes issue is the reason why. So to answer your question re: X and Sue, it would come down to reflex feats.

to which Charles would have none. 👆

Well, then there it is. I thought he might have picked up some in the Krakoa age, but none spring to mind.

I guess it seems absurd to assume that someone with categorically zero reflex feats would win a quickdraw.

Am interested in why you place Hulk at the bottom, actually. He had (in my mind) some reflex feats, no?

I guess because I think there's something to be said for keeping pace (and ultimately dominating) in mental combat against people who do have established reflexes (like Exodus).

It's a little more circumstantial than an outright quickdraw-style win, for the purpose of this thread, but it's more credit than I'd give Hulk - whose mind I imagine Exodus would just outpace.

Mind you, maybe that doesn't make sense because I don't think MMH's super speed would aid him in an astral battle with Chuck... idk, at some point the logic comes apart at the seams.

Originally posted by Smurph
I guess because I think there's something to be said for keeping pace (and ultimately dominating) in mental combat against people who do have established reflexes (like Exodus).

It's a little more circumstantial than an outright quickdraw-style win, for the purpose of this thread, but it's more credit than I'd give Hulk - whose mind I imagine Exodus would just outpace.

Mind you, maybe that doesn't make sense because I don't think MMH's super speed would aid him in an astral battle with Chuck... idk, at some point the logic comes apart at the seams.

👆

Imagine a telepath of MMH's calibre....now imagine that telepath having genuine legit superspeed.

If a human telepath is supposedly FTL, faster than Quicksilver, the premier speedster in Marvel (fight me, Mungi!) imagine a speedster telepath like MMH. At this rate, he could solo Marvel and DC with a thoughtblitz!

I mean, ignoring pesky things like feats. I also wonder if there are levels to telepaths, like speedsters. Is Professor X faster than Psylocke? Or, like Hulk is Hulk (and non-canon is...proof), are thoughtspeeders all equal?

If I made a second thread, and had Emma/Jean/Professor X/Psylocke/Cassandra Nova, how would people rank them, based on feats/feelings?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
👆

Imagine a telepath of MMH's calibre....

Marvin Flumm 👆

As Stilt is here, I was always impressed by this:

Issue 51. Good stuff, yeah 👆

Psylocke (Kwannon) should be the winner of that bunch, pretty easily imo.

But comics struggle to give her her due.

Originally posted by carver9
Good example imo... TPs imo just owns raw speed. The distance between QS and Jean is nothing by the way. He should be able to cover that instantly and he still got mind raped by Jean...

Full sequence (they were lucky Sue was there to save them):

Raw speed pretty much phucked them over. And interestingly, QS previously in the issue was too fast to be detected by anyone - including Apocalypse, a telepath:

But don't worry, fans. Sue got her vengeance:

Good story, though.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Full sequence (they were lucky Sue was there to save them):

Raw speed pretty much phucked them over. And interestingly, QS previously in the issue was too fast to be detected by anyone - including Apocalypse, a telepath:

But don't worry, fans. Sue got her vengeance:

Good story, though.

The point of my scans was to show him blitzing towards her. She knocked him out. I get your point though.

It literally says that he did all that damage in the one second it took her to reach into his mind and shut him down.

Edit: cool (non-canon) feat of Sue shutting off Apoc's powers by blocking off his frontal lobe, though

Originally posted by Smurph
It literally says that he did all that damage in the one second it took her to reach into his mind and shut him down.

Edit: cool (non-canon) feat of Sue shutting off Apoc's powers by blocking off his frontal lobe, though

Plus - he's mind controlled, and was likely only there to kill Johnny (foreshadowed earlier in the issue).

It's nice though that Johnny was able to react before Jean, and then get stabbed, and his subsequent stabbing was reacted to by Sue, AND THEN Jean suddenly reacted and thought to put him to sleep.

Edit: oh she also blocks a full blast from Storm earlier, as they're trying to kill Venom/Carnage

Originally posted by Smurph
This is the part that I don't think is proven.

Originally posted by Smurph
Do we have any feats of Xavier just plainly outreacting speedsters?

Seems to be a distinction that I'm just saying... kinda glossed over.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Imagine a telepath of MMH's calibre....now imagine that telepath having genuine legit superspeed.

Is that what you're concluding?

Originally posted by ODG
Not really trying hard to prove anything. Just commenting.

Originally posted by ODG
With their physical movements? I'd guess not? With thought based weapons that this thread entails? I dunno?

Seems to be a distinction that I'm just saying... kinda glossed over.

Originally posted by Smurph
Fair enough. Pending proof though, that's the part of the argument you laid out (whether or not you're making it) that falls apart for me.

Just with his mutant powers. His brain is a thought-based weapon, after all.

Is that the premise that you don't agree with?

Originally posted by ODG
I never thought about it too much before these KMC threads, but I kinda accepted that Xavier thinks faster than normal because of his history that I have read. Never was something that I tried to pay attention to, but it is what came to mind immediately. I also understand how reductive/stupid that sounds: "Hurr durrr, he thinks fasterrrr..." but, yea.

Is that the premise that you don't agree with?

Reminds me too much of someone arguing that Starfire could blitz Psylocke because Tamaraneans can fly ftl - but in terms of actual Starfire combat speed feats, couldn't produce much at all.

Or like I told Goober in the other thread, I accept that the worlds smartest man has a more powerful brain (and higher 'computing' speeds) than an F1 driver, but on a quick draw under these stips, I'll take the driver.

Originally posted by Smurph
I accept that he thinks faster than most characters, as a general premise. Much faster, even. But I pause at giving him the win in a quickdraw against, say, Sue Richards (whose powers are also activated at the speed of thought) based solely on his being a telepath or on tenuously connected feats like beaming his thoughts to Lilandra from Earth.

Reminds me too much of someone arguing that Starfire could blitz Psylocke because Tamaraneans can fly ftl - but in terms of actual Starfire combat speed feats, couldn't produce much at all.

Xavier can think much much faster than normal people. Quicksilver can move/think much much faster than normal people.

Originally posted by Smurph
Or like I told Goober in the other thread, I accept that the worlds smartest man has a more powerful brain (and higher 'computing' speeds) than an F1 driver, but on a quick draw under these stips, I'll take the driver.

Originally posted by ODG
I personally think someone like Xavier is really different from Sue Richards. Never tried to conflate the two. Xavier's telepathy is speed-quantified on multiple levels unlike Sue Richards.

Originally posted by ODG
Xavier can think much much faster than normal people. Quicksilver can move/think much much faster than normal people.
Gl rings are thought-based weapons. Not physical muscle-motor based weapons. So, an argument can be made for Xavier winning in this scenario.

So if QS had an edge on Xavier when he had to think and then move, he should have that much more of an edge here.

Originally posted by ODG
On the tangent that you bring up... Xavier has contended/defeated artificial CPU intelligence too. CPU intelligences that can process stuff far far far faster than normal humans, Are those feats of Xavier being given full faith and credit?