Hulk vs Wolverine vs Professor X vs Quicksilver!

Originally posted by ODG
For me? Yes. Xavier is a cripple. Emma Frost is in extremely good physical health/shape. Jean is a supremely athletic young lady due to constant training. Psylocke/Kwannon is straight-up ninja trained to be peak human or beyond.

But I would never think Emma, Jean or Psylocke would ever defeat a cripple Xavier in a quickdraw telepath contest. Because the comics I have read do not suggest so. Ok, well. I said what I said.

You think Psylocke outspeeds Xavier in a telepathy contest because her ninja training over his cripple state.

But conversely you believe GL Stel loses to GL Hal in a quick drawing contest despite his advanced alien A.I. composition over Hal's fleshbagginess.

I see a stark contradiction. But you don't. So we don't really have anywhere else to progress constructively from here. I have my opinion and you have your's.

With all things being equal - so Stel's GL training would need to override Hal's/Hal's natural giftedness (i.e. 'comics, man'😉. Psylocke's ninja training needing to override X's experience/training with telepathy.

Which I overrode in this thread with all contestants having the same experience/training/skill with the GL ring. In THAT example, should Stel and Hal be in this thread, Stel would win, if he has the reflex feats. I mean, he should, being a robot and Hal being a fleshbag, but somehow, comic humans have the reflex feats to prove this wrong ('comics, man'😉.

So yeah, it's down to feats as I keep saying.

If Xavier has none, then....he has none. If I used similar logic with say, Superman, Carver would crucify me, and rightly so. 'Hey, look, this is proof Superman has super fast reflexes as he has a conversation with Lois Lane !!!' 'DS....erm...how is it a feat when Lois is easily keeping up with him??'

It's almost as if none of these feats being given to X, are actually speed feats, and any character could do them.

Originally posted by Smurph
I guess this is where you lose me. Looking at that scene (again, not as proof--it's not 616--but just because it's easier to pin down the disconnect with an actual example rather than hypotheticals) I see the issue as that Pietro's super speed made his reflexes faster, despite Jean being a telepath. Her body never factored in, so I'm lost as to why her physical fitness would have mattered. Her task was purely telepathic.

Psylocke is just a particular example of a telepath and a ninja/highly skilled MA. Two attributes that tend to lead to higher reflexes. In comics, a high enough level of skill almost becomes a spider sense. The amount of evidence we could muster to prove that telepathy improves reflexes would be a molehill compared to the mountain of evidence that skill improves reflexes.

Also, for whatever it's worth, Xavier was out of his wheelchair for the majority of the 80s, most of the 00s, and again since 2017 and through the whole Krakoa era. And the dude was weirdly fit whether he was in or out of the chair. He just doesn't have reflex feats because they're not his thing. And if they're not his thing, why would he get the advantage over Wolverine or Quicksilver in a pure contest of simple reflexes?

Yeah, one of similar examples: When you put Brainiac or MMH against some top speedsters, like say, Barry/Wally/Superman in a contest of who active the GL ring first, do people think they can outspeed these speedsters?

MMH based on his telepathy feat against Perpetua. Brainiac based on the super-smart/brain ability(like the one he recently seems to get)

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So Brainiac has absorbed all the knowledge of time, space, and the Multiverse, according to the preview
https://aiptcomics.com/ezoimgfmt/i0.wp.com/aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Action-Comics-1066-2.jpg?w=1248&ssl=1&ezimgfmt=ng:webp/ngcb4

Feel free to change Brainiac to Batman or any other super-smart characters

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Yeah, one of similar examples: When you put Brainiac or MMH against some top speedsters, like say, Barry/Wally/Superman in a contest of who active the GL ring first, do people think they can outspeed these speedsters?

MMH based on his telepathy feat against Perpetua. Brainiac based on the super-smart/brain ability(like the one he recently seems to get)

Feel free to change Brainiac to Batman or any other super-smart characters

How about Lex?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How about Lex?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Interesting
Lex was able to erase Brainiac's intelligence, which is just previous stated it stored all the knowledge of time/space and the Multiverse, though it seems to cost his intelligence greatly.
But according to Brainiac, this process should kill even Lena whose intelligence is beyond 12th level intelligence/has no limits even for 12th level intelligence

Also, curious to hear people thoughts about this kind of intelligence feats compare to speed feats? It definitely seems to look like it ties to brain processing speed, as Brainiac's mind has problems to process all these information(but still can act normally in most occassions), and Lex was able to process and erase these knowledge
https://ibb.co/2gMBkNg
https://ibb.co/g4wJCqB
https://ibb.co/zN2BJ5k
https://ibb.co/T4hFSp1
https://ibb.co/sJ3hQ1B
https://ibb.co/85CG5Fp
https://ibb.co/bmLJWcL
https://ibb.co/S5Y8KbN
https://ibb.co/34Hgr5X
https://ibb.co/Xpx90d3
https://ibb.co/SsLjj5j
https://ibb.co/5BfysdG

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Amanda Waller also lived 20 years' worth of time, accelerated and compressed into 20 hours. That's quite the mind speed feat.

DC, are you reading KMC?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Yep
https://ibb.co/xGSyT2G
https://ibb.co/5sHY5Xx
https://ibb.co/Tr626sv

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Which I overrode in this thread with all contestants having the same experience/training/skill with the GL ring. In THAT example, should Stel and Hal be in this thread, Stel would win, if he has the reflex feats. I mean, he should, being a robot and Hal being a fleshbag, but somehow, comic humans have the reflex feats to prove this wrong ('comics, man'😉.

Yet, you take me to task when I suggest Xavier's mental speed would be a significant factor here...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's almost as if none of these feats being given to X, are actually speed feats, and any character could do them.

Originally posted by leonidas
yat has super speed, right? has anyone ever seen him create constructs faster than anyone else?

I don't think I've even seen him use his speed, actually. Though I'd say half his appearances I've read were him without Daxamite powers(or at least only partially powered, when initially on Earth, for those powerless appearances).

Originally posted by ODG
So you admit that in a quickdraw contest, Hal wins over Stel because of "comics, man" but you haven't pointed to a single Hal mental speed feat to support that opinion.

Yet, you take me to task when I suggest Xavier's mental speed would be a significant factor here... So Xavier who can out-think Danger, Dark Phoenix, 1/5 Phoenix Namor, 1/2 Phoenix Scott, Nimrod, etc. Xavier somehow has no mental speed feats? Any character could do the same? I mean... despite all those foes who have physically/mentally wrecked the crap out of characters like Wolverine? Well...

Yeah, I was talking about the feats that had been posted so far - bring those other feats in, and now we have a thread.

Quicksilver being faster than a combat-trained telepath's synapses:

yeah i get that. nowadays i'm thinking there are 2 speeds in play--the speed of thought and the speed of thinking. qs>speed of thinking but qa<speed of thought /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah i get that. nowadays i'm thinking there are 2 speeds in play--the speed of thought and the speed of thinking. qs>speed of thinking but qa<speed of thought /shrug

👆 that's basically where I am (and always was, I think, if clumsily said):

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But their neurons, their synapses, their reactions, are still constrained.

I am obviously not getting the other side's arguments, so let me try and break it down stage by stage:

A:Emma slips the card, sees the symbol on it, broadcasts it simultaneously to all participants. They all receive it simultaneously.

B: The contestant reacts to it ('It's a circle!'😉

C: The contestant thinks 'Circle'

D: The ring forms the appropriate construct.

A and D are equal amongst all the contestants (hopefully we agree on this at least!). B and C are what's different - and if people are [b]not saying B is Quicksilver's to lose (i.e. we agree that Quicksilver is fastest at B, followed by Wolverine etc), and that C is where and how Professor X wins the gold....that makes no sense to me.

Are people really agreeing that Quicksilver has the fastest reactions, but the time it then takes for him to think 'Circle' is so much slower than Professor X that he loses??? We know in step B, that Quicksilver is capable of reacting in picoseconds...but now we're saying that he recognises that it's a circle, but then...is unable to think of a circle before Professor X slowly recognises its a circle and then thinks of one? [/B]

In this thread, I removed the speed of thought as a factor - I equalised it (all contestants' thoughts travel at, well, the speed of thought). However, what IS different is every contestant has differing speeds of thinking - QS has faster speeds, followed by Logan, follwed by Chuck, then finally, Hulk. Based on feats of their reactions (where Hulk and X can be swapped around, it's that close).

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Quicksilver being faster than a combat-trained telepath's synapses:

Wouldn't this be considered hyperbole?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
👆 that's basically where I am (and always was, I think, if clumsily said):

In this thread, I removed the speed of thought as a factor - I equalised it (all contestants' thoughts travel at, well, the speed of thought). However, what IS different is every contestant has differing speeds of thinking - QS has faster speeds, followed by Logan, follwed by Chuck, then finally, Hulk. Based on feats of their reactions (where Hulk and X can be swapped around, it's that close).

Does anyone besides Hulk have fts of slapping multiple objects out of the air that's moving faster than the speed of sound? Not only is he grabbing them, he's also easily dodging them...

Besides QS of course.

Originally posted by carver9
Wouldn't this be considered hyperbole?

Why would it?

Originally posted by carver9
Does anyone besides Hulk have fts of slapping multiple objects out of the air that's moving faster than the speed of sound? Not only is he grabbing them, he's also easily dodging them...
Besides QS of course.

Yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to him having better reflex showings than Professor X (hence my post). I just think Wolverine is faster than Hulk, personally /shrug

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why would it?

Yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to him having better reflex showings than Professor X (hence my post). I just think Wolverine is faster than Hulk, personally /shrug

Any fts faster than what I posted?

Also, that's hyperbole

Originally posted by carver9
Any fts faster than what I posted?

Also, that's hyperbole

And faster than what? He's not catching or dodging those missiles lol, they're rigged to explode when they're near him. The text clearly says this.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why would it be hyperbole? 2nd time asking now.

And faster than what? He's not catching or dodging those missiles lol, they're rigged to explode when they're near him. The text clearly says this.

First panel, he caught one. Second panel, he dodged one. Hes reacting to them. Also, Mandarin who possess super speed has even said Hulk reflexes has no equal.

Its hyperbole because it's a statement that is being said by a character with no proof.

Originally posted by carver9
First panel, he caught one. Second panel, he dodged one. Hes reacting to them. Also, Mandarin who possess super speed has even said Hulk reflexes has no equal.

Its hyperbole because it's a statement that is being said by a character with no proof.

What do you mean no proof? He's beating the snot out of X, who can't react to him. Statements with no proof, or hyperbole, would be your scan of Mandarin lol (unless you have proof Hulk has no equal in reflexes lmao).

And yes, I'm making the point that you're just accepting scans n face value without proof when it suits you, but demand explicit and clear cut proof when it doesn't.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
....they're homing in on him, and exploding when they got near to him. He's not dodging or catching anything, lmao.

What do you mean no proof? He's beating the snot out of X, who can't react to him. Statements with no proof, or hyperbole, would be your scan of Mandarin lol (unless you have proof Hulk has no equal in reflexes lmao).

And yes, I'm making the point that you're just accepting scans n face value without proof when it suits you, but demand explicit and clear cut proof when it doesn't.

He's literally moving to the side from one and catching them. Could Jubilee see Flash coming and react to him?

Anyways... here, he catches it...

Here he's laying on the ground and 3 are coming at him and he dodges it.

You're being extremely irritating right now. Also, no, X reflexes are nowhere close to what is being mentioned so QS hitting him means he's moving faster than X.

The Mandarin scan just means Mandarin is accepting Hulk being faster than him.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, no, X reflexes are nowhere close to what is being mentioned so QS hitting him means he's moving faster than X.

I disagree